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wait, could it have something to do with brainless Rumple? If Z believes Rumple is the cause of why Cora doesnt want her.
Because She was Coras first born and Coras first born was what Cora owed too Rumple and that way Z would be a problem for Cora becoming a royal- That is what Z believes I mean.
If Z believed Cora thought this. Maybe Z sees these Things in the Wiz’s floor-mirror.
So Z believes making Rumple a brainless dimwit, will convince Cora to keep baby Z anyway, because Rumple is no longer a threath?
If, however, Cora did give up Zelena, leave her in the woods, then Zelena knows this as well and plans to do change something even BEFORE Cora gave her up.
So if Cora was left by Z’s father and that’s what caused Cora to give up baby Z, then the real moment that needs to be changed is not giving Z up, but having Cora left by Z’s father.
holy bejeepees this gets more and more complicated 😉 My brain feels like mashed potato now O_o
[adrotate group="5"]Well here is another problem I came up with while eating.
Let’s say Zelena trades Baby Snowflake for Baby Zelena. That doesn’t change the fact that Cora gave up baby Zelena in the first place. So how is Zelena supposed to get baby Zelena back to Young Cora and have Cora raise baby Zelena.
Zelena can meddle with baby swapping all she wants, but how does she convince Cora to raise her?
Yes Ive been thinking this thing over a bit now. Like I wrote in the above post, it was then Monkey Wiz that told Z Cora gave her up because Z could never make her a royal, but maybe Wiz Walsh lied? Or didnt understand what he saw in his floor-mirror?
If so then maybe Cora never gave up Z (this is also assuming the hooded figure we see in Wiz’s floor is Emma) So if Cora never gave up Z- Then when adult Z sends baby snowflake back through time, baby Z is resting comfortably back home in her crip and is not at this time under the twister, that doesnt happen until Emma goes back in time to steal baby Z from Cora and place her in the twisters path- what we see in the Wiz’s floor 😀 get it!! its a beautiful thing.. excuse me for being proud of this theory, but I really loves it, if it doesnt happen on the show I am suing Adam and Eddy 😉
Okay that solves the problem viewed from Coras side.. but seing it from Z’s side is a Little trickier because: If Z believes Cora gave her up, then how does she plan on getting Cora to keep her baby self? Thats tricky. Have you any ideas RG? I will have to think it over for a bit.But what about the next stage of events after Zelena sends Snowflake through and starts new AR?
Because if Zelena’s intention is that she basically takes Regina’s place in Cora’s life and Rumple’s plan’s then…*sigh* ok. I gotta think out loud.
–Zelena sends baby in her place
with you so far
–Zelena becomes the new Regina but because Zelena is so keen on magic she and Cora have a better relationship than Cora and Regina. Because Cora has now KEPT Zelena, she doesn’t take her own heart realzing that “Zelens is enough”
That is assuming what you propose here would happen as a result of Z staying with Cora. Cora doesnt neccesarrily have to change her agenda because she has a nother daughter. So in order for it to work, we must assume Cora still wanted her daughter married to King Leo. Then Z would end up as Snows stepmother, like Regina did. Z would drive away Snow and Snow would meet Charming and have Emma.
–Snow and Regina never meet because Regina is no longer an entity. Zelena and Snow have no reason to meet.
–Leo never remarries and is never killed
–Regina never chases Snow from the palace and Snow never becomes a bandit
–Snow and Charming never meet and S1 Flashbacks never happen
–Because Snow and Charming never meet, there is no Emma. So in the AR, Emma doesn’t exist at all. Which means there is no savior for the Curse that now Zelena is going to cast.
–Zelena casts Dark Curse which sends everyone to SB but for good because there is no Emma so there is no Henry.
lol- I seriously hate this quoting system I always screw it up somehow. Ive highlighted my replies in the above mess.
Yes that could be the result. And maybe something along the lines of what Z is hoping will happen after she changes her own fate But if that happened that would be a sad ending for our favorite Once characters 🙁
The time-loop theory only Works if Cora treats baby Z the same way she did Regina. And Z grows up the same way as Regina and makes the same choices for a good part of the way.
There is a problem in if Cora really did want to give up baby Z, then why did she all of a sudden take her back? Maybe Cora never gave up baby Z. Is it not the Monkey Wiz that tells Z that Cora gave her up because she couldnt make her a royal? I will have to go back to “not easy being green” ep and check this. Because If Cora never gave up Z intentionally, and Monkey Wiz lied about that, that would solve the problem.
Surayya-
I think what is confusing me is where is your AR version of Emma coming from? ….
So you’d Have to have current Emma {A} travel back in time {B} (because she always did), switches back babies? {C}, then she’d be stuck there {D1} (in which case Henry looses her again, as does Snowing & this means it’s no longer consistent casual loop) or she has to travel forward in time, back to the present {A} & things continue on as normal- HOWEVER, Snowing should ALWAYS have remembered the events that took place in the past in EF when/ IF Emma & or Hook interact with them, Emma cant just simply cease to exist because there is only ever one version of herself in the constant causal loop paradox.
Im glad you ask all these questions because this is a very interesing discussion Sur (can I call you Sur?) But also very hard to explain.
Where did AR version Emma come from? She came from the AR. She was never in the Old Reality(from here on I will call Old Reality OR) When Z sends the baby back in time to take her place in the Twister, Z starts a new timeline.
It is within this timeline AR Emma is born. Because OR Emma tricked Z and kept her magic, AR Emma will remember life as her OR self- Thus being able to, by magic Means, travel back in time to the day of the Twister and make the reverse baby switch.This Again puts baby Z in the Twister and Z goes to Oz. This erases the timeline that Z started. Therefore AR Emma also is erased (or maybe she lives out her life in EF, but this is not important to our story)
But by AR Emma putting the babies back as they were before Z’s timeline interference. The timeline we know from all the seasons of the show we have seen, now happens. So Z grows up in Oz, Regina in EF etc.. And the OR Emma is born like we saw in season one. Only to Again end up in the situation with Z trying to change timeline many years later.
In all honesty I can only see Zelena doing time travel if she knows SHE herself {we shall call current day Zelena- Z1} personally will benefit from her efforts- I dont think she is generous enough in nature to give what she wants for {Z1} herself to another version
There IS only ONE version of Z and of Emma and of them all. The reason for us calling them version AR Z/version AR Emma vs their OR selves is just so that we can differentiate between the two timelines. When Z in OR switches the babies she gives HERSELF a new chance, by changing what happened to her on that day in the past. Changing the babies makes her baby-self stay in EF. In if her plan had worked there would then never have been an OR version of Z.
My biggest problem with all this is how on all the purple smoke curses in Once, do they manage to get time travel devices/curses to go forward & back in time???
No idea. But A and E has a good imagination so Im sure they will think some device-thingymahbob up.
If time travel was possible why would Rumple simply not have used that as an effective & straight forward means of returning to Bae 100′s of yrs ago?
If its not going to Work for Z, since she ends up just creating her own problem essentially. Rumple probably always knew it was useless to try.
Phee-
General audience. The vast majority of the audience for this particular show who just tune in once a week for some simple fairytale escapism probably wouldn’t be up for something this twisty and complicated
Okay thanks. This is oftent the problem for me with Once. I have all these big ideas for where I think they should take the story and then is disappointed when they dont go so far.
Surayya-
The way I understand what you are saying, is to make the consistent causal loop paradox work, you are proposing Emma travels back twice? …. Then is either stuck there forever after or travels forward in time back to the future (see what I did there 😉 – sorry I just had to go there lol )
No Emma always only travelled back ONCE, but in order for her to do it, she had to already have done it once before 😉 lol I know its tricky but when you get it, it sort of make great sense in its own strange way.
Emma (her AR version) travelled back in time, to the day of the twister, from the AR. She makes the baby switch and as soon as she has done that, and Z Again is the baby that ends up in Oz, everything goes back to normal. The AR version of Emma seizes to exist And everything Z did was in vein, because we just go back to present day Storybrook, right after Z enacts her new curse (sends baby Regina back in time)- so because of what AR version Emma did, nothing really happens, exept baby Regina is lost in the time loop and now only adult Regina is left..The whole thing with the heart and how much free will and emotions a person can have and feel is ALSO one of the blurred lines on the show. Like WickedRegal says Graham didn’t realize he didn’t feel anything for Regina before Emma came along. We have seen people with no hearts have a certain amount of free will. Graham was with Emma at the time of Regina possessing his heart, if she would have had total control of him he would not have been able too.
And I will respectfully disagree with you RG on that it was rape. I sure didn’t take it as a serious thing like that. I will go so far as agreeing that they might have been dancing on some border there, with that topic, but I think if they did it was unintentionally, rape was not what they wanted to tell with the Graham- Regina story. And I don’t feel it was the story that ended up on our screens either. Again – subjective.
As for the darkness in fairytales. Really the darkness in Once is not that bad IMO. I remember seeing “It”-the King movie as a 8 or 9 year old, now that was something dark and twisty for a kid to see. Once is just fun for kids, even with the dark aspects. They hint at scary things, like using baby parts for magic and like Z playing “house” with her doll Rumple, but they don’t show it to us in a scary way. The kids I know that watches Once, which are 8, 9 and 12 year olds, they wont be scared or scarred by these things at all they just have fun with it.
lol okay 😀 No I had never heard of KISS.. and not of GA either, what is that?
But maybe I should start watching that Doctor Who show. I think it would just be my thing.
Thing is though it would be so cool if they did this on Once 🙁 I know its suppossedly a Family show and all that, but kids are sometimes able to follow these Things better then adults cause they just take it in and dont question it too much. And you have to admit Regina being Snowings baby, really keeps Things in the Family 😉
But Emma wont be born yet & neither would Snow & maybe charming for that matter- so the only way your theory could work is if Adult Emma & Hook (from current reality), travel back in time with Z, to try prevent her from changing the future.
Since we know Snowing are in the past Emma & Hook travel back to- Z must have gone back to the time of Snowfalls, so baby Z would already be an adult, have meet Rumple & been dismissed as useless to him.
Wait… so you are saying that Snowing’s baby is Regina- so that would make Regina both Snow’s step mother & daughter, Henry’s adopted mother & bio aunty, Charming’s step mother in law & daughter & Emma’s sister + co parent???
it makes no sense if we have both the grandfather paradox & the Consistent causal loop paradox butting heads- it has to be one or the other- either you change the past to alter the future or you always traveled back, so the future is never actually changed from it’s current state, as you are just going through the motions.
Lol Im so confused now 😀
But its the consistent causal loop I think Im proposing. Emma always traveled back and Z always send baby Regina back trough the twister. When and how did it start? no idea, but thats the beauty of it.
Yes more confusion on the Family tree I know 😛
Im not saying that the Emma and Hook we see in the AU pics are Emma and Hook travelled back in time. These are the new versions of Emma and Hook LIVING in the altered reality. So all the time, from the day of the twister, when Z was a baby and up until the day adult Emma goes back to set Things right Again, will pass during AR- meaning many years will go by in this AR, before Emma is able to put Things right Again and make the reality that we have seen since season one come to pass.
Emma (from the altered reality) goes back in time Again to the day of the twister and puts the baby Z in the twisters path, therebye saving Regina, the Snowing baby, who she then puts in the cradle with Cora and Henry in Z’s place.
So my big problem with what Z wants to do is that in effect Emma will never be born, Neal will never find his father, nor will Henry be born etc.
Also Z doesnt just want to be royalty- she wants Rumple to love her- she loves him…..
Not to mention this plan of Z’s will be throw spanners into ALL the main couples on Once from Rumbelle to OQ to CS to SQ & she’s already sunk SF- in fact Z will have every once shipper of anyone ready for her head on a stick lol.
Emma would be born in this AR, but not Henry and Neal wouldnt find his father no, but he would still be alive living in New York.
Z might have loved Rumple before but at the time he rejected her. I think other feelings started to grow in her. Maybe in AR she will keep him as a pet, instead of her monkey 😉
The ship thing. I dont know about that.
Yeah, I understand what you where saying now- I took AU, as just that- a distinct & separate reality from the current one, I think you meant altered reality, where we have the one reality that can altered from it’s current state, but not split into distinct alternate realities/universes.
Yep 😀 so it Works right?
