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Not sure if you guys have ever seen this movie from the ’80 called Ladyhawke, but in it, the 2 lovers were cursed where 1 was a hawk during the day and the other was a wolf at night by a jealous evil bishop, so they would forever be apart. To break the curse they come before the bishop during a solar eclipse in their true human forms – this act defeats the bishop & he is then easily vanquished. The curse enacted by EQ reminded me very much of this plot twist. Maybe the way to break this sleeping curse & defeat EQ is similar. Somehow there is a way for both Charmings to wake at the same time in front of the EQ and thereby defeat her; maybe even she would then poof, be vanquished, or some variation thereof as she would never be able to extract her revenge which is her sole driving purpose for existing
[adrotate group="5"]Oh other random thought from this episode, those magic cuff seem to pop up a lot these days. How did they even get to underbrook or did PP make more for Hades in exchange for a cushy underworld life?
As Pan is the creator of the cuff, it is most likely that he created another for Hades. Now, how Cruella & James got their hands on the magical McGuffin is another story. Probable theory, that it was in James’ 50 Shades of Grey Prison (a rewatch of episode 515/The Brothers Jones will reveal if it was like Chekhov’s gun, lying in plain sight)
This discussion thread is awesome!
A point of consideration we may not be taking into account is that, while these souls are in the UW, they are in some form suffering and performing atonement, particularly as Hades’ prisoners with no hope of moving on until our Heroes arrived and the process moved forward again. The key to moving forward, if you follow the clues from the episodes, is to come to terms with and acknowledge your wrongs and to be willing to accept your fate for better or worse – this becomes the essential factor to potentially moving on to a better place. We did have 1 character who went to the Worst Place – one of Cora’s henchmen – that was our clue to see that just blindly following on an evil path with no self acceptance of fault will end in the worst fate. Both Gaston and James, did not at anytime accept that they had any part in their own fates and deflected onto others fault (i.e. Belle and David, respectively, were their scapegoats), and though they did end up in the River of Lost Souls by accident, had they gone to the “Cave of Judgement” (for lack of a better term) would both probably have ended up in the Worst Place. Milah after years of probable penance was on the verge of self realization and acknowledgement before Rumple threw her in the River, and we unfortunately don’t know much about Auntie Em to know which way her path was laid. I do hope that at the end of the arc, that the souls in the river would be given the opportunity to go to the “Cave of Judgement”
As far as the discussion on punishment, we fall to the age old discussion as to who is fit to be judge? Is my definition of enough punishment the same as the next person’s? It is a very fine line, that we mere mortals will never agree upon (just take the death penalty as an example of a complex discussion).
How Belle should feel: Wishes Rumple hadn’t gone about things the way he did but happy, glad and thankful that their child is now safe. How the show will actually make Belle feel: She’ll throw a hissy fit and break up with Rumple yet again which will make her look really ungrateful despite the fact he just saved their child. Seriously the writers need to give Belle a response that doesn’t amount to “HOW DARE YOU!”
Right!!!!
Aside from the great debating going on here on this topic, did anyone else come to the realization of the irony in that the Dark One of All Dark Ones said to the Wicked Witch of the West, “Now, let me introduce you to my father, Peter Pan.” … Ah the OUAT family tree LOL
Rumple: I told my daddy on you! Zelena: And? Peter Pan: I’m dad. XD
LOL … Maybe Rumple is related to the Malfoy’s (Harry Potter), I can just hear Draco saying: “Wait till my father hears about this!”
Aside from the great debating going on here on this topic, did anyone else come to the realization of the irony in that the Dark One of All Dark Ones said to the Wicked Witch of the West, “Now, let me introduce you to my father, Peter Pan.” … Ah the OUAT family tree LOL
A bit late to the party, but it took me this long to gather my thoughts and pin down exactly what bothered me the most, and i finally figured it out – it was the lack of respect in representing a story for the LGBT community. Firstly, I would like to state that I am the very proud mother of a beautiful, smart and extremely talented bisexual daughter who i find perfect exactly as she is! and my BFF is gay (& I wouldn’t trade him for the world & am very lucky to have him in my life!) – so I know TL comes in so many forms and LGBT love & loving relationships are normal and beautiful.
RG, PriceofMagic and Phee pretty much conveyed many of the points and thoughts I had – kudos ladies. Nevertheless, I felt that at the end of the day, the point missing was that A&E did not respect the community enough to actually develop a love story just as they would have with any heterosexual couple (aside from the “I just met you, and this is crazy” yadda yadda). I totally get that Mulan is a Disney property and in the Disney-verse her arc is completed with her marriage to General Li Shang where they live happily every after (see Mulan II). So yeah, while in OUAT her sexuality has been ambiguous in the Disney-verse it’s set in stone (now with Meridad – there’s flexibility, but that’s another story). I am also on board with the “gay” associations that have been implied with Dorothy (i.e. friend of Dorothy, rainbows, etc.) I also get that Ruby is neutral as far as her story book history. BUT, the problem is that at no point in OUAT, has there ever been a hint that Ruby wasn’t straight. She had a boyfriend (granted she ate him lol), she had a relationship with Gus, flirted with Will, was hinted at as being the “town floozy” and prior to this season, last we saw we were hinted a FrankenWolf potential relationship — so up till now – not 1 clue that she was anything but straight! One does not wake up one morning and say – hey, I’ve decided I’m a lesbian or I’m bi. You are or you aren’t – it’s part of you! Through hints in the interwebs, the idea that Ruby was the “chosen one” for the LGBT relationship was almost a given. Nevertheless, at no point, did they (i.e. the writers) even imply that her search for her pack meant that she was on a personal sexual discovery path. At least they could have had 1 scene in which Mulan & Ruby have a talk whereby we as the audience are clued in as to what was really missing in Ruby’s life – this would have been epic, showing and paralleling how in real life self discovery and coming out happens. Instead what we are given is a half-hearten attempt at love at first sight passing itself off as TL, where it’s actually, at the most, Ruby being sexually curious and poor Mulan once again being the 3rd wheel. Bad form A&E. The LGBT community deserved better.
So in this episode, Hades/Zelena team up will be like Cora/Regina team up in Season 2B. Just a backslide for Zelena who was recently making progress, but ultimately it’s going to be a reunion with Cora, who will manage to save both of her daughters by convincing Zelena of the dangers of being with Hades. And by reuniting and mending the relationships with and between her daughters, Cora will have finished her unfinished business and will then proceed to pass over into the happier afterlife.
this would be so perfect!!!
being a bit silly here, but all this talk about Belle’s viewpoint being very black or white, and Rumple trying to get her to view it more in shades of grey, I couldn’t help but sing the lyric from “Be Our Guest” where Lumiere sings to Belle: “try the grey stuff – it’s delicious!” 😛
Just responded in a similar thread, so here’s my 2 cents. I pretty sure that the LGBT couple will end up being Dorothy & Ruby. Both characters are neutral enough that their story lines can be molded without provoking backlash to their iconic history. Remember OUAT is a Disney property, coming out and flatly labeling one of Disney’s official princesses, i.e. Mulan (or Merida for that matter) as being officially gay or bi in the Disney Canon is not a step that the company as a whole is ready to take (which is a shame as many LGBT children would love a princess they can relate to). Red Riding Hood is neutral – no real history either way. Dorothy is already associated with the gay community (back in the day, saying that someone was a friend of Dorothy, was slang for gay) – so for the writers is an easy way to appease part of fandom without offending other parts of the fandom. Personally I would have enjoyed finally giving Mulan her due! But once again it seems she’s sidelined to always a bridesmaid never a bride
Inserting my 2 cents. I pretty sure that the LGBT couple will end up being Dorothy & Ruby. Both characters are neutral enough that their story lines can be molded without provoking backlash to their iconic history. Remember OUAT is a Disney property, coming out and flatly labeling one of Disney’s official princesses, i.e. Mulan (or Merida for that matter) as being officially gay or bi in the Disney Canon is not a step that the company as a whole is ready to take (which is a shame as many LGBT children would love a princess they can relate to). Red Riding Hood is neutral – no real history either way. Dorothy is already associated with the gay community (back in the day, saying that someone was a friend of Dorothy, was slang for gay) – so for the writers is an easy way to appease part of fandom without offending other parts of the fandom. Personally I would have enjoyed finally giving Mulan her due! But once again it seems she’s sidelined to always a bridesmaid never a bride
