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I have a different definition of crack ship than just not canon, and that is not a neutral one, it can have a negative note. Semantics do matter, so can we simply agree on calling it not canon and avoid that term?
Honestly, I wouldn’t hold my breath for Ruby playing any sort of integral role in the upcoming season(s).
I don’t hold my breath for it. I have already given up on these writers ever doing more than paying lip service in many regards.
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I thought Adam did say that the scene between Ruby and Whale in 212 was meant to be a set up for FrankenWolf but then they got the rights to Neverland and Ruby unintentionally became sidelined so Meghan Ory was released from her contract and FrankenWolf didn’t happen like they originally planned?
What I know is, that Meghan Ory said, whatever A&E had planned for Ruby didn’t happen because of many new characters, but she said nothing about what was planned. I know Jane Espenson tweeted something about Frankenstein and a werewolf making sense. But if you have any source stating definite, that the plan was FrankenWolf and nothing else ever possible to be thought of, I would appreciate a source for that.
I always had the impression that Ruby was a “maneater” but whether or not the curse would change someone’s sexuality, I don’t know. Red had a relationship with Peter, that’s the only real indicator I can think of that may suggest she’s not queer, but even then that doesn’t necessarily mean anything as some people do engage in heterosexual relationships before coming out such as Willow in Buffy the vampire slayer.
There are people who are not one or the other but something different, they feel attracted to more than one gender their whole life or discover they are at some point, it’s usually called bisexual. The likelihood that a bisexual woman has dated a man as her first relationship in her life is very high, that she has dated a number of men before ever dating a woman is pretty much as high. It’s quite simple statistics, there are not that many women around open for dating a woman. That says nothing about who Red might have felt attracted to, she might not have talked about everything (many don’t for a long time). And it certainly says nothing about who she now could fall in love with.
There are not just straight and lesbian/gay people in this world, it is not for everybody one or the other, and it would be even progress to see a positive portrait of a bisexual woman. We have pretty much just Arizona on Grey’s Anatomy if it comes to that, and some people even prefer to see her as lesbian, because it doesn’t question their binary thinking that only one or the other is possible. So, no I don’t accept that argument as merely in the character, it’s heteronormative and based on gender and sexual orientation bias.
I just think if they were going to make Red LGBT, then they would have at least hinted at it since we’ve seen a lot more of Red than we have Archie, and she has a closer relationship to the main characters than Archie. For example, they hinted at Mulan being LGBT in season 2 before all but confirming it in 3A.
Did they? Just recently someone in another forum complaint, Mulan’s unspoken love came out of the blue. And how should they hint at something that was not yet intended? People read some scenes very, very differently. Remember enough people saying, no in the movie Mulan was straight, and there is just friendship, nothing more. There was at first more discussion if she was in love with Phillip. Can’t remember the writers saying in retrospect after the first episodes of season 3 that it was intention all along – and why shouldn’t they admit that, after all they love their fancy twists. I know, Jamie Chung thinks they might, but I am not the least bit convinced of it. And even after confirmed in interviews and tweets there still are people utterly convinced it’s bogus and nothing there, saying Mulan wanted to confess her love to Phillip – on the show her love to Aurora stayed unspoken of and was only hinted at, leaving room for people to stay in denial.
I’m going to say this again: If they want us to know that someone is queer, they have to SHOW it to us. You can’t just spring that out of the blue. As it goes, Ruby, Emma, and Regina they have only been shown to be attracted to men as far as we know. If they were planning to have them be bi or lesbian, I think they would make it a point to mention it, hint it, or foreshadow it. It’s not “heteronormativity” if we don’t see something they haven’t shown us. How do we know Regina isn’t into zoophilia? How do we know the Charmings aren’t swingers? We’ve seen nothing to suggest either of those things but should we assume they are?
It is exactly that, heteronormative assumptions. Why should I assume that a character is strictly straight without any doubts unless shown differently? You need me to show it to convince me. And, right, kinda impossible, considering there is something like bisexuality, or people discovering late in their lives that they are in love with a person of a different gender than they have been so far.
The Snowings might not even know themselves yet that they could be swingers, nothing tells me so far that it would be totally out of question. And I very much hope with zoophilia you meant interested in dragons who can turn into humans, dwarves, fairies, werewolves, humans regulary turning into wolves (oh, wait, Ruby is one of that kind) and other mythical and fabulous humanoid creatures as well or more than into humans like herself.
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See some interesting points worth considering in this essay – and not just concerning Emma and Hook. Said it elsewhere, I have generally a growing problem with how this show portrays romance and relationships. There is just one exception and that is Snow and Charming, aside that those two might come across a bit too obsessed with each other at times, but okay, parenthood is still something rather new to them. I don’t fully agree with what is been said about Emma’s side in the essay (I saw more interest on her side than the author does), and think it’s a better developed relationship compared to others on the show (which doesn’t mean much though), but I can understand the points made. Different from the other two main canon ships on the show (aside Snow and Charming) at least I don’t have that much of a basic problem with Emma and Hook but there are issues in the way they have developed the relationship of them as a romance.
It’s not like the relationships are never questioned, but whatever obstacles are thrown in it feels more like done for the thrill of shipper angst than seriously questioning if these relationships should be the way they are. Additionally there are obviously some very different perceptions in the fandom, and it gives me the creeps how some cheer and celebrate their ships rather blindly, whatever ship. Doesn’t make any discussion of critical issues like those pointed out in this essay any easier.
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I would like to see FrankenWolf play out and that was the original plan for Ruby so I don’t think they would necessarily put her into a same-sex relationship.
Do you have that as word from the writers in interviews or as outspoken statement on the show? Or is more head canon of fans? Is it more fan speculation, assumption based on a few minutes of one episode, where Red and Frankenstein had a sensible talk about that maybe for them the curse had upsides even, and on Frankenstein harassing her while under the curse?
I respect, that you wish for FrankenWolf, though I didn’t see a compelling romantic chemistry between those two. What I saw was a hint of understanding of the peculiar situation of the other, a possible friendship but not necessarily a romantic interest. That Frankenstein found and maybe still finds Ruby sexy (well, he was portrayed as womanizer under the curse) doesn’t mean there is romantic interest. I am not saying they couldn’t develop something at all, but there is so far nothing decided. And whatever the original plan, a TV show is work in progress and things can change, even if not always into a direction we prefer.
You sound like Frankenwolf is a done deal, that is how you see what happened on the show, but I didn’t see those scenes that way. Regardless if they’ll put Red in queer relationship, I don’t see her with Frankestein at all. Frankenstein is full of self-pity and it’s mixed with some hubris, I would advice anyone to stay away from him, until he maybe has grown up. I prefer Red as single if the only choice would be Frankenstein.
So aside that you prefer a certain relationship, is there anything in the character that speaks against Red being a candidate for a queer relationship? Is there something that stands against Mulan and Red feeling more than friendship if they meet, some incompatibility in these two characters?
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I think a lot of people are very dismissive of the SQ ship but not necessarily a Queer ship in general.
I am not sure about that, because of discussions here on this board as well as other forums and Tumblr, Twitter, Facebook. I very well can differentiate between arguments against SQ based on their fictional history, moral objections concerning Regina’s doings and Emma’s suffering because of that, and objections made based on gender and sexual orientation. The latter might not be meant by everyone right away homophobic, but it is stuck in heteronormative imagery. It would help to admit it is. I’ve struggled with heteronormative imagery a lot myself, still do, it’s not easy to overcome that, even if being someone not fitting into these images myself. I hate that they still influence me and what I do at times, that there are enough prejudices still fogging my own mind, but I try. I dislike being called out for when I fail, who likes to admit a mistake or limited view, but that is how I learn.
Maybe a lot of people wouldn’t be dismissive. It’s nice to guess that most people won’t throw verbal tomatoes or worse at a queer ship and its shippers as long as it isn’t the two lead characters of this show, but do you actively ask for a queer ship to happen? There is a difference between being okay if it happens, not minding either if not, and supporting change, to see that the show lacks diversity and ask for that to be changed, because in real life we are a lot more diverse than what is shown on screen. Being not dismissive doesn’t mean being supportive.
I have plenty of problems with most popular ships, and most of the canon ships particularly. Never saw that much chemistry in SwanFire nor do I see any sizzling chemistry in OutlawQueen. RumBelle at least has a certain chemistry, but that is very much because of the brilliance of Robert Carlyle (he probably could make dancing with a doll feel hot and steamy). It’s amazing, that they didn’t mess up Snow and Charming from the start, but they hardly know what to make of them now. The best developed pairing, though with a few issues, is Emma and Hook. I have huge ethical problems with RumBelle, mostly because I have a growing problem with Belle as she is characterized on the show. And I have an even bigger issue with OutlawQueen, which aside that Emma had to suffer a lot more than Robin had to by the doings of Regina, is basically in my opinion the same no-go as Emma and Regina. I find it remarkable, how people can ship one but cry foul about the other, but that is my view. I have growing problem with the portrayal of love, romance, relationships on this show in general, and their overall ethics if it comes to handling “evil” and “good” (and certainly I am all for grey and evil isn’t born, as atheist don’t believe in heaven and hell, but neither in the doom of genetics though).
Yes, I wonder why SwanQueen is that big of an issue to people.
I am not reducing it to heteronormativity, I do see other things, for example identification processes with lead characters, and there is by now some scorched ground in the fandom, burns on all sides involved, but heteronormativity looks like a significant point to me. Plain and simple: If we like it or not, we would have a different discussion about SwanQueen if these two were of different gender.
Do I trust these writers to do any good portrayal of queer relationship ever? They hardly manage to do any portrayal of a relationship I would call desirable, and neither any dramatically interesting. So, no, as they mess up hetero relationships they will make a mess of any queer one (and I mean that not in a good, dramatic way, but ignorant writing).
But I am at a point where I don’t care that much anymore, if they would do a good queer portrayal on this show, just do it.
Call maybe Mulan’s not outspoken feelings a start, but that was nothing more like an appetizer. Bring her back and give her a love interest, unambiguous this time.
If it shouldn’t be a one episode thing (it shouldn’t), and seeing that they’ve already more characters even supporting ones than they can handle, it better should be with someone already on the show IMO. So best choice in my view is to pair Mulan up with Ruby. They share some traits (fearless, loyal, good friends to others, don’t mind to stay in the back, knowledge of being an outsider) but have some interesting differences too (Ruby is more of an extrovert, playful, outgoing, spontaneous, while Mulan is more a typical introvert, guarded, serious, taking time). Could be interesting as character development for both.
Can see another story with Maleficent (involving Aurora’s mother), but that would be a tragic story, and as much as I wouldn’t mind to have that too, I wouldn’t want it to be the only one.
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They paid more attention to grammar this time.
I don’t know about Elizabeth Mitchell being Snow Queen and mother of Elsa. Not that looks matter sometimes, but in the movie the Queen of Arendelle, Anna’s and Elsa’s mother had brown hair. And despite speculations here, in the movie it was never hinted at that Anna and Elsa had not the same mother. So expect more that she is the Snow Queen, who perhaps Elsa’s parents were on the way to seek out for help. Anna then following their trace.
What is that about Will Scarlet? Mysterious past pushing him to an unknown future? Watched only a few episodes of Wonderland and sure haven’t paid that much attention to the stories there, but didn’t he find his happy ending with his love there? Or did that happen all in the future? Call me confused here.
Nice little extra for me is that Pascale Hutton will grace the screen under OUaT label for a moment, small role, but something. Too bad her own show Arctic Air got cancelled (she knows how to play in frozen places, that for sure, they filmed parts of her show on location in Yellowknife, North of Canada in really freezing temperatures even). She would be a great addition for a musical episode.
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Anyone else think that prince for 407 is one of Hans’ brothers?
Nope. Pompous and coward – have more thumb sucking Prince John on mind (and Peter Ustinov’s voice in my ear). Because of the animated Disney movie Robin Hood (1973).
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The description of Hollywood Reporter of the promo made me spill my late afternoon tea. Really? Okay, the promo made me already lol.
Regina voices her dread…
There was no dread at all in Regina’s voice, more a rather bored and snarky tone saying: Next villain, please! And Emma sounds annoyed, that yet again some villain is keeping her from doing the really important things in life.
Find the promo more comical than building up any tension or thrill. That they put them in their Enchanted Forest wardrobe into Storybrooke didn’t help to take it any serious. But maybe that is the point. What a teaser.
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Haven’t read the books and not planning to do so, but three episodes in now I think this show might be a keeper on my watch list. Don’t care much about the romance (quelle surprise 😛 ), but find it interesting enough to watch, how a rather modern woman is coping with this different time and world, how they’re portraying the people and society of this time. Besides, Scotland is always charming. Not to mention it’s always worth a look when Ronald D. Moore is involved and Bear McCreary is doing the score (busy man at the moment, Defiance, Agents, Outlander, Da Vinci’s Demons, Black Sails, Intruders, Constantine).
Jamie, Sam Heughan is a not just a looker.
Claire, Caitriona Balfe looks quite like a younger version of a good friend of mine, Claire even has some of her character traits. Fun.
Like that they don’t do subtitles for the Gaelic. So we have to rely on other things like Claire has to to get an idea what they’re talking about at times. Of course one though can find helpful sides, blogs for understanding more like this one http://greatscotblog.com/ (not mine, but it has some good stuff)
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The ABC series in casting the recurring role of Lily, a bright, self-reliant teen who boasts a “charming, take-no-prisoners punk exterior and the heart of a secretive, insecure opportunist.”
Am I the only one thinking that the last part of the description doesn’t make Lily sound so great, “heart of a secretive, insecure opportunist”? Makes me all think more of a possible bully, sorry. But having been raised by the queen of bullies maybe not such a surprise if Henry would find that attractive.
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