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andreth stark – agree with you. The “old” stories are good stuff to read.
And thanks to all for recommendations. Will take a look at some.
Mentioned it already in another context: the works of Cornelia Funke. Namely the Inkheart-trilogy and the new MirrorWorld series starting with the novels Reckless and Fearless. Particular the MirrorWorld should be interesting read for OUaT fans to compare with the show, it’s another modern take and mash-up of fairy tales. And if you own one of the apple gadgets you can go and explore the world in a different way even, via an app.
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There are already a lot of untold stories in the OUaT universe, I just don’t think that the place for all of them is on TV screen, not in the original show nor in a spin-off.
There are other medias to work with, why not make use of them? They actually already did a first step with the graphic novel (not with the book though, that was just retelling what happened on screen, I am not talking about the usual merchandise and franchise attempts).
Of course the original show has to stay the center of the universe, and the show should be still enjoyable if you just watch the show. What is important to advance the story of the show on screen has to be told there, but a lot of what fans consider interesting and even as important is not really important to move on the story on screen, sorry to the break the news. It can very well be told in other places, other media, without taking away from the show.
The experience for willing audience could be enriched by telling some of the background and off-screen things through other media, books, graphic novels, apps, games, wepisode, webcomics. OUaT is a family show, and though some of the new media stuff might be not so appealing to us older folks (to nurse prejudices), it quite sure is something to get younger people.
I am surprised that marketing and development folks at Disney are not already going crazy about the chances this new fictional universe offers them, or maybe they are but behind closed doors. I am aware that it takes some planning and a strategy, and that there is this kraken called international distribution and rights to be tamed, but it can be done. I liked what was done with Matrix for example, how they used games to explore characters or what they did with the animated Animatrix films. A recent example is the show Defiant. Or take a look at the collaboration between Cornelia Funke and Mirada Studios in creating the Mirrorworld.
This show could be so much more.
Of course they could leave it as well to fan fiction to fill the void. I wouldn’t mind, it is the companies’ loss.
Edit: Just remembered they had this app on Facebook, The Untold Stories. Wonder why they haven’t done anything alike again. Not counting though the little online game “Mirror, Mirror”. It’s a little fun but not really adding anything to the universe.
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Sounds nice, once_dude, like the idea of Rumple reappearing without big fuzz, casual, and refusing to tell for a while, what happened, stating, it happened just what needed to happen.
Like the Red Room idea, RumplesGirl, although thinking of a bit different kind of room than the one we saw in the Netherworld. A room with more Twin Peaks vibe, and our crazy imp ranting to some crazy hallucination. Nothing I would like to see on any episode, (somewhat redundant, considering his interaction with Shadowbelle, and definitely can’t be a hallucination of Belle), but maybe they should consider to produce some wepisodes for summer break, filling a couple of plot holes, which certainly will be left to fill.
Think in general they should try something with a few additional wepisodes, there are so many question out there. Doesn’t have to be huge action and CGI, mostly more in the sense of what is known in theater as chamber play. Of course even that takes time and resources, but they already clarify, or have to cearify so many things on Twitter, I think there are more interesting, creative ways to do that.
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Writers outdid themselves. People are already confused with timelines, even die hard fans at times, and think casual users are a lot more lost (although might care less). This undoing the curse thing gives even my Star Trek time travel, time phenomena and parallel universes trained brain already plenty of headaches, even though this course has nothing to do with time travel or changing the past. But it has plenty of pitfalls.
To try to make it simple: This curse effects only the present and future, it erases any memory and trace in our world of Storybrooke, it doesn’t actually change anything in the past, changes nothing that happened before it was cast.
It brings everybody back to where they came from (so will Whale/Frankenstein be back in the b&w realm?) – exception Emma, who was created to break the curse (Regina’s words, so it’s not just that Emma was protected the first time by the wardrobe)
And the curse will “prevent it” (Storybrooke? or the people) from ever returning.
At least, that is what I gather from this episode. Of course could be wrong about the no changes of the past, but nothing else really makes sense to me at the moment. Unless this show wants to jump the shark.
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Well, congratulations to all who nurse the Sneaky Fairy theories, you still have your fairy around to go on with it. Although her death never would have been an obstacle for that. Anyway. Happy For Keegan Connor Tracy, hopefully it will bring some nice work for her. Apart from that, find the plot disappointing.
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If they hadn’t brought back the Blue Fairy before, then maybe, just maybe, audience might have been able for longer than a mere second to be truelly shocked and now worried, if Rumple will come back. But no, they brought her back. So no suspense here in my opinion, no rest in peace for Rumple. Unless Robert Carlyle wants to do something else, they won’t write Rumple out of the show.
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Hello Medchen! Missing your thoughts on the stories behind the stories.
Know frustration with the show, you’re not alone. The way they handle fairy tales and mythology is part of my frustration as well. The show is by now off my have-to-watch list, but somehow still can’t let fully go of it, so still hang around on the board and chime in once in a while.
Just think, this show could have been more than lazy (Sunday) evening entertainment, more than pretty much standard TV formula family soap opera with fairy-talish characters. It by now goes a lot more into the direction I thought it would, when I first heard about the plans of a fairy tale show for mainstream US broadcast network television: entertaining but shallow. Some might say, entertainment is always shallow, but I’m not giving up hope, that something can be entertaining many and nevertheless come with some depth and thought. Not expecting big profund philosophy on screen, and don’t mind mixing up and encourage new perspectives, but I do expect a knowledgeable approach.
Was close to write a lengthy dissection of how they used the legend of the Pied Piper, different from most I very much disliked what they made of it. Maybe because it somewhat hit home, it’s more than some other fairy tale from a colored book to me, it’s part of my homeland’s folklore. So of course have a different, you can say biased view on that story. But as well was speechless how they wasted the myth of Medusa just recently. Just to name current examples. It leaves me with the impression, that they don’t care about the fairy tale stories and myths they are using, only as much as they are useful for whatever their story is they’re telling, and sometimes not even that. That is disappointing.
Guess there is a problem with this show, when one is geeking out about folklore, mythologies, legends, fairy tales – in my case since childhood.
What else to expect from a show made for mainstream primetime broadcast network? Although cable is not that much better in producing more than the best digestible soup of average entertainment, they just like to add more naked skin and theatrical blood for the yuk factor there at the moment. It’s not just a problem of US production or productions for US market though. The British fantasy-adventure Atlantis is even worse, I think, although it’s a show most certainly produced with US-American TV market in mind as well, not just UK and Europe.
OUaT is still great if it comes to acting, soundtrack, costumes (minus the disaster of the ball with Ariel and Snow), props, although they maybe should consider to do less CGI. But I do have issues with the writing.
I wouldn’t rant and still stick somewhat around if I wouldn’t think they could do better. But of course it’s their show.
By the way, Medchen, I was wondering, if you’ve heard and participate in the free MOOC (mass open online course): The Future of Storytelling (it’s on Iversity, new MOOC platform. Course will end in one week, and I don’t know if and how long they might keep things online, but take a look at it, if you haven’t already. That goes for everyone: Take a look, it’s free. Edit: Just read on their Facebook page, that the course will be online for a while, but you have to enroll before Dec. 20th to have access.
And they have a youtube channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/officialStoryMOOC/¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
Thanks for the link/info. So love it when these professional TV chatterbox folks hype something by telling nothing. Not. They’re like these annoying wannabe influencers at highschool, who later hang around in offices at the watercooler, coffee maker or copy machine room, telling everybody the newest big secret which is no secret at all. They know squat but crave to be seen as important secret bearers. Gagh. There is spoiling and there is hyping for nothing.
Dear professional TV chatterbox folks, what is the big news here? Okay, guess you guess audience is too stupid to do the math. Whatever.
Sorry for the rant.
But, seriously, did anyone ever assume someone like Rumple would be so stupid to cut off his shadow, if there wouldn’t in general be the slightest chance of reattaching it? Alright, Rumple might have not minded, after all he was believing, he would be undone soon anyway. But it looked to me even as if he wasn’t doing it the first time. Huge difference though: He cut off his shadow, it wasn’t ripped off.
I never got the killing factor of shadow ripping in the first place, and think they never really thought it through. They had “Pan’s” shadow (we still don’t know, who he belongs to, if to anyone), it was kinda cool, so let’s do it that way. What is the shadow of a person? Life essence? The soul in visible form? Or maybe just the essence of the dark side of the person (and thanks to Star Trek and other fiction we know, that one can’t really live with just the good side or the bad side, torn apart you die after a while, one can’t survive without the other, oh, wait, the latter was something else :P)? The show gives not the slightest idea. But shadow ripping by the shadow killed definitely Greg. And it was said several times, that ripping shadow kills in a painful way.
It was puzzling from the beginning, seeing that heart ripping already sometimes killed and sometimes didn’t instantly kill people, although one can explain that (intention of the ripper, magic connection of heart and body, blabla). Maybe, some remember the cheap zombies used by Cora? Sorry for reminding that there was a second season 😉 Anyway. Heart ripping doesn’t always kill instantly, so possible, that shadow ripping as some convenient sides as well when it fits plot and story. But that is the problem, the rules for heart ripping already are too convenient.
It was suggested, that the shadows might return to their former owners and the are revived once Pan would get killed. Unless there comes some automatic body preservation spell with the ripping that can’t work, at least not for the majority of ripped shadows, because the bodies are gone. The shadow had been ripping for centuries, must be some pile of preserved bodies on the island in some cave then. It’s a problem I already had with Phillip’s story line and particular his resurrection. How come the body was fine without the soul? Nicely preserved and easy to reoccupy. Was that always the case? Then where are the others? Perhaps they have more fantasy newbies in mind when writing, but even those have a brain and might ask such questions.
So maybe we’re all wrong on the Sneaky Fairy theory?
Never had been into the Sneaky Fairy theory. Mostly because sadly I just don’t have the impression, that things didn’t add up, because the writers gave it thought, but because they didn’t give it thought. It was random.
One can wonder, why Blue was running and screaming instead of making a stand for example, but guess she needs fairy dust and her wand, but she keeps her wand and a little stack of dust somewhere in the fairies’ convent in a huge hidden safe or so, and never carries it around with her for safety reasons. For those being into the sneaky fairy theory of course it feeds the idea of her death being shady and something else going on. To me that it’s just sloppy writing.
Stories, or parts of a story, sometimes can develop a life on their own though, particular when it comes to serialized forms of story telling, as TV shows are. You start out with a basic outline that might include an endgame, but not everything on the way is defined, you have room for new twists, new characters, taking characters (for a while) into different directions … There can be surprises even to the creators, bit like life. It’s a journey, start, general route and destination are known, but on the way a lot can happen. So the writers might have not thought of some things at the beginning, but they could now.
I get the fascination with Sneaky Fairy theory, and admit, there is something to a bigger story arc for Blue, although not as a big bad (she just doesn’t have that vibe to me), more in the sense of that she has her own agenda. I see even more potential to have her have some good intentions than having turned evil on the way, even when she was trying to undo something she once meant well. The curse of people made responsible for the happiness of others.
Though, now that I’m thinking this outloud, the price of becoming head of the fairies and having all that power could corrupt some. Maybe that’s what happened to Blue? She started off benevolent but the power and the constant strain of trying to keep everyone in line turned her into a dictator? (random thoughts)
I find it interesting, how negative the reactions to the Blue Fairy have been. Mostly people disliked, that she often seemed to stand by and do not much to nothing, while she was presumed to be all good and have such immense powers, be the original power. Some even hated the Blue Fairy for that. And it was the basis for people coming up with Sneaky Fairy theory.
Yes, power can corrupt. Most of the times though you will find, that power simply attracts the already corrupt, their corruption was just not so visible before they got power. Someone with a good heart though very unlikely is going to lose it in a powerful position, but the good heart might get broken, until they can’t take it anymore and resign or collapse. If you have a good heart and come to (big) power, all you can do is fail, and the question is only how much. Even if the power could be unlimited, then it would be only worse. Some fail big time, others less, but they all fail. Why? Because there is no way that you can do good to everybody all the time. Life has limits and one has to work with that, that means compromises, and sometimes tough calls. Doing good for some might not be the good for others. You will never satisfy all needs and wishes. And what good you do now, might turn out bad in the future. You can only fail with a good heart when you get power. Sounds pessimistic and not hopeful, but just means that one has to accept, that there are limits, that you can’t do all good to everybody, and others will sometimes hate you for it.
In story telling, fantasy, when you create an all powerful being or a most powerful, more powerful than any other, you always have a problem. There always will be the question, why isn’t that being doing something about whatever is happening, why don’t they make all friends, see that everybody has food, house, work, loved ones and is loved, that there is no war… or destroy everything with a wink when it’s an all powerful evil being. Short: you don’t have a story to tell. Sometimes story tellers have some nebulous entity somewhere lurking around, intervening if crucial, but otherwise keeping out of things, pretty much nothing else than a Deus ex machina.
That has been and always will be the problem with the Blue Fairy in OUaT. Even killing her doesn’t quite change that, because there are things in the past still not adding up for many. At least, killing the Blue Fairy makes rather clear, that her powers were definitely limited, and that even someone like her can’t cheat death. Bringing her back, whatever way, would make the story telling problems, the writers already have with this character, only worse.
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Yes, killing an iconic good character like Blue gives more moral weight to kill Pan to our heroes. Yet they already had reason to judge him for trying to kill them (dreamshade tipped poison, threats, ripping out Henry’s heart) and kidnapping. He did also kill Greg (same way) and Tamara (she was shot with the poison arrow, though Rumple actually killed her) and give the orders for them to activate the fail-safe–so attempted genocide. Plus he apparently kept children prisoner for hundreds of years. Do they really need a final straw here? I do not think so.
The characters don’t need more reasons but the audience maybe does. After all most know and remember Pan from the nice friendly animated Disney version and from the movie Hook and there he is the good guy. That the writers focused on the creepy side of Pan and made him the bad guy on the show was an interesting twist (and really dark, so don’t see them hesitating too much to go dark), but it was a risk. Eventually now killing that iconic character might not sit well with some, no matter that he did some bad stuff in the show, but he didn’t kill any sympathetic character on the show before, “only” tried to. Right, Henry probably wouldn’t have survived, but they got the heart back very fast, and it never felt like Charming was really at risk to die. Greg and Tamara I don’t quite count, they were bad guys themselves, no tear to shed there.
At the beginning of the episode it was all happy return feelings. The audience did know different from the characters, that Pan had swapped bodies with Henry, nevertheless think even for the audience the happiness of the characters was comprehensible. There was need for a reminder, what a menace Pan is, before they got to him planning to use the Dark Curse. Killing Blue should have some emotional impact on the main characters, regardless if she was an alley to them or not, but unfortunately they failed in making that impact palpable – which is bad one way or the other.
Killing iconic good character Blue Fairy might sit not so well with audience though either.
Now, they said, this season, or the first half of it, is about believing, and indeed belief was a motif in pretty much every character arc. So it would make sense to revive Blue (in Barrie’s play though Tinker Bell was near death not dead, saved by audience clapping as alleged expression of their belief in fairies). The ultimate moment of belief by Emma maybe, or someone else, or the town together. Whatever. It’s not impossible, could make some sense, might happen, but difficult to write without making it look cheap. And there will be the problem what to do with the character then.
So, my opinion: either Blue should stay dead, or they should come up with a better story for Blue in the presence.
Off the top of my head I cannot think of another supporting character that is as prominent in Storybrooke whose back story we have not seen. That makes me wonder where they wanted to go with Blue in the beginning of the show and if that perhaps changed over time and they suddenly felt no use for her anymore.
On the New York ComicCon 2011 Kitsis&Horowitz told, that they tried to get Lady Gaga for the role of Blue. Could have been just some crack pot idea of them and never too serious, but if it was any serious, it would say a lot about how they saw the character when they created the show. Blue was probably meant to appear only for a few episodes, hardly for all season 1 or even beyond that (if they thought about the beyond at that time). Someone like Lady Gaga you just can’t get for a recurring role (unless she plans to change her occupation and become an actress). Casting a professional actress for the role sure made other things possible.
You bring up though something interesting. Blue indeed is the supporting character we hardly have any background for. She was involved in a number of stories but hasn’t gotten her own story so far.
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As meaningless as I think the the death was, I would prefer if they stick to the dead is dead idea even for an immortal magical being.
At some point they eventually have to let go of a supporting character or even a main character to raise the bar. Killing only redshirts just has not the same emotional impact. They’re putting the characters through the wringer, they had to deal with death before, they will have again, it’s a drama after all.
Always prefer, if they have no good use for a recurring character, to actively write them out; sometimes it’s enough to let them leave for some other place but sometimes you have to kill them before dragging on. What good has Mother Superior been in Storybrook? People have been all over the board, that she had to be either sneaky and even up to something even not so good to hold back, or that she maybe had been (or become) just a MacGuffin. Blue could have an interesting background story, but what could she do for the present time story to move on? Stop the next big bad? Will make people only make question her motives more, why she didn’t do anything before, or not much, and feed the theory, that she has her own sneaky agenda. Either the writers fully go for that and soon or let her rest in the present in peace as the good fairy I think they wanted her to be.
They had a huge problem with the character anyway the moment they gave the impression that she’s the biggest power of all. Still think, the way they said it on the show could very well be understood as Enchanted Forest folklore, while the character wasn’t meant to be all powerful by the writers, but that is a matter of interpretation. If there was a discrepance between Blue’s actual power and what people believe she could do, it could have made for an intersting moment. the classical moment, when the being you believe is like a godess turns out to be maybe stronger than average people but far from invincible, but they never made a moment of it. Didn’t need to be a whole episode about it, just a moment to reveal all powerful as legend, something that someone realizes and not something that shows pretty much by the way.
Given they still have that problem, because in past Fairy Tale land Blue is very much alive, so the question about her motives will stick around.
Anyone who encountered Pan before was telling, he is the scariest and biggest bad ever (aka so far on OUaT). One can say, no wonder, most of them where kids when they met him, and for a kid he could have looked a lot scarier than he does for adults, including lasting trauma (nightmares we had as kid have a tendency to bother us still as a adults). If the shadow killed Blue, and it can’t be undone, then finally Pan and his creepy shadow companion might prove to be the big bad they’ve been rumoured to be. It is the final straw it takes to make the in this case good guys (Navengers, kinda like the term) want to now kill Pan and not just lock him away for all eternity in a magic box (what a bad use of Pandora’s box btw, another waste). Listen to what Emma said to Gold. If they are going to kill the iconic character Pan on this show, what they might do or not, than they have to give some good argument for that – killing an iconic good character might suffice (yes, I know, Blue was not a good fairy for some fans of the show, but she is a good character in general)
Don’t get me wrong, was all there to defend Blue as good fairy and see some meaning in the character, but they’re not doing much with the character. More so, I love Keegan Connor Tracy and very much would love to see her eve more on OUaT, but I don’t believe that will happen one way or the other. The good thing is, we still can see Blue in flashbacks, but to me it makes by now a lot more sense to keep her dead for the present time, and be better writing.
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