[Myril]

PANDORA BOX… is too close to episodes of CHARMED ? ? THE SOURCE .. wasn’t it the thing in the basement that was guarded by both Good & Bad to keep if from being sprung on the world.

Similar stories…

Nope. In Charmed it was a box containing all of world’s sorrows (pretty much like in the Greek myth). In every generation a woman is born chosen to guard the box, Pandora was the first of these guardians. Hope was the name of the next guardian, who the Charmed sisters had to protect until she was able to take care of things herself.

In the basement of the Charmed’s manor was the so called Nexus, a point of great energy, which can be used though by good and evil.

The other thing you might think of is The Hollow, a kind of very ancient vapor, which absorbs all kind of magic it comes in contact with, and it hungers for doing so, to a degree that it might destroy the world, if set free. The ultimate power to end everything and create a void. Good and evil managed to contain it and keep it in a box in a some ancient burial ground, guarded by one from each side. The Source of All Evil uses it in his last, desperate attempt to kill the sisters, but together with an evil Seer the sisters manage to contain The Hollow again.

[Myril]

Okay, so Emma might not know the full extent of the story, maybe only knows that Milah was Hook’s love not what it is with Rumple and not that Milah was Bae’s mother. Something to spill for Tink, if she knows, and in a bad moment causing some friction. I was talking just about Milah and telling Emma or whoever about it, just to clear it up here, of course I am aware, that Tink could know some Neverland related things about Hook and Bae, and spill a few bad or good beans about them.

But this addresses in a way something I find increasingly frustrating about this show: It is sometimes unclear, what the characters know or what just we, the audience knows. Problem of any show working with multiple levels of stories and plots, a huge main cast and flashbacks, but I think they handle it less and less well. Not sure if that is even more or maybe less frustrating for casual viewers, perhaps it is both. A casual viewer might not care as much about details as people do discussing the show for example in forums.

Anyway. Frankly, I couldn’t care less what effect Tinkerbell might have on the CaptainSwanFire love triangle, if she might say things making Emma or whoever view Hook and/or Bae/Neal in different light. I try to ignore by now the shippings and pairings going on or wished for. What I see with Tinkerbell at the moment is, that they have a great, aka interesting character, interesting in her own and not (just) as plot device, and they did a great cast for the role, things that shimmer through this Hollywood Reporter article. I hope the writers don’t make the same mistake they made before with Red, bringing in an interesting character and pretty much missing out on making actually use of it. Yes, I know, this is mainly the Charmings, and foremost Emma’s story (or maybe not, considering how much they tell about Regina and Rumple). Still.

Find it more interesting, that McIver described Tinkerbell as being all or nothing, and that was there in the first episode we met her. Will be interesting how this might effect her helping the RumpleCharmsMills to get back Henry.

Tinker lost her wings, we know how. As discussed in the interview, it is interesting how the relation to Regina will develop.

And what were her past relations to other characters besides Regina?

Will she come to Storybrooke? Will she meet Blue Fairy again? How will that be?

How did Tinkerbell come to Neverland in the first place, was she there as fairy before, or did she go there after she lost her wings? How did she go there? Did Pan get her, or the shadow? What is her relation to Pan?

Just a few questions. Doubt that all will be answered in the show, on screen, but there is a lot to Tinkerbell.

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[Myril]

storyteller – the design of the box, its cover is very interesting, indeed. No idea though, how much thought the prob department really gave it. But I’m going to let my thoughts flow freely here… (no theories, just some associations)

alpha and omega – most only know one part of the bible verse it is based on (Book of Revelation), the beginning and the end, but it means the beginning and the end as one thing, what was, what is and what will be, all of it rolled into one, the one thing (alchemy) or the one entity. In Christianity Alpha Omega is applied to Jesus and to God. You can often find it combined with the so called Chi Rho in a circle, which makes it look eventually a bit like a wheel . In alchemy the One Thing or subtle Ether is the substance that is space, that fills space, that is in all, everything is a manifestation of it, all matter is of it. It is all and nothing, chaos and perfection. Azoth, in alchemy believed to be a universal medicine, consists of the first letter of the alphabet, and the last letter of our western (latin) (=z), Greek (o or omega) and Hebrew alphabet (Tau – th), the essential agent in alchemy for transformations, which was Mercury, it is the prime matter, universal cure, Elixir of Life. Which might remind some of the Philosopher’s stone, sometimes to believed to be an elixier of life itself, but foremost the agent to turn (transmutate) base metal like lead into gold or silver, but not to be confused with Azoth.

We have three wheels. Three is, as everybody knows, a number with symbolism, a magical number. Three is the nucleus of a family, mother + father + child. Or in Christian philosphies we find the three as trinity as allmighty Father + the Son + The Holly Spirit. Luck or misfortune comes in threes (depending on culture). Hegel’s dialectic is thesis – antithesis = synthesis. Just examples.

Wheel(s) – Wheel of life (Bhavacakra – Buddhism) or Rota Furtona, the wheel of Fortune. Cyclic existence or fate. In a Tarot deck the Wheel of Fortune is the 10th card of the Major Arcana, interpreted for example as turning point, forces intervening, new development, sudden event, opportunities, sudden change, fate, destiny. The Major Arcana can be seen as the voyage of the fool, protagonist or hero. We already had Joseph Campbell and his book “A Hero with a Thousand Faces” in another thread, the idea of monomyth, that there is a basic pattern to be found in most narrativs of the world (it’s interesting reading although for example ignorant to female perspective or narration, it has some limits). There are 17 stages in a journey according to the Monopmyth. The Major Arcana has 22 cards though, nevertheless, let’s see what the 10th stage in Monomyth is. The 10th stage in the Monomyth is called Apotheosis, the moment the hero transcends, is elevated, through deeper understanding or eventually a scacrifice, death, showing he is ready to get what he is doing the journey for, embracing destiny.

Considering that the writers have said multiple times, this show is about hope, it was just a matter of time when Pandora’s box or jar would come in. I never quite understood, why the story of Pandora mostly is told has hope being the last thing in the box while all evil escaped. I mean, hope in a box filled with all evil – how come that hope was in there in first place? A variation of the story is, that the box or jar was a gift of good for humanity, including hope, and that keeping them in the box was good for humanity. The moment the box or jar was opened, most of the good vanished and just hope was left. Makes more sense to me, but whatever, the more known and told variation is, that the box contained evil, and because of Pandora’s curiosity evil was set free.

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[Myril]

Perhaps Tinkerbell is the one to spill the beans about Hook having been in love with Bae’s mommy, Milha.

Maybe I am confused, but what should Tink tell? Bae learned from Hook when he came to Neverland, that Hook was in love with Milah, and that his father killed her and that Hook was on a revenge quest (final episode of season 2). Hook told in the Echo chamber of secrets, that he thought he couldn’t move on from his love Milah, but that he now did and fell in love with Emma. Maybe Neal didn’t hear at all, but he already knew about Milah. And doubt that the Charming didn’t get it.  What more beans about Hook and Milah are there to spill for Tink?

Interesting interview, thanks for posting a link, motormouth12. Like that Tinkerbell is a bit of a wild card, “incredibly moody” Rose McIver calls her. Will be interesting, what kind of history she has with other characters.

Tinkerbell is at the moment pretty much the reason for me to tune into upcoming episode, the only character I am curious about.

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[Myril]

My opinion: It’s none of our business. Give Ginnifer Goodwin, Josh Dallas and their family some privacy.

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[Myril]

favorite:
snarky Regina / Evil Queen
Ariel as a character

least favorite
pretty much everything else

(The reason I still watch this show, although it’s off my have-to-watch-list, is the great acting of some of the cast, not the story, not the writing)

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[Myril]

Might be a tad more wry than usual.

Regina: “You’re such a pathetic waste of ability.”
Emma: “And you’re a monster.”
no, they’re not married.

and now the special version for all egg searching Lost fans:
Emma: “(…) monster.”
Regina: “(..) Smoke.”

Hook: “You’re not lying. You’re just keeping a secret until confirmation.”
technically Hook is very right about it. Just keep your mouth shut. But we already know, that is something Snow is not good at.

Snow: “Secrets always seem to keep us from the people we really care about.”
secrets and some people in a writers’ room somewhere

Snow: “The one thing that makes everyone crazy is love.”
And being chased by an evil queen. Oh, wait, is that love too?

Peter Pan: “You can’t see the future here. It’s impossible to see the future in a place where time stands still.”
another smarty pants, no wonder he and Henry get along well

Rumple: “I may not see the future here, but I can make one happen.”
Passive-agressive are we today, dearie. But Dr. Sigmund Pan will sure fathom it.

Peter Pan: “I’m just trying to point out the silver lining in your cloudy life.”
Not the golden one?

Rumple: “That by killing you, all our troubles end?”
They should do a joint venture with Haven, they have some problems with troubles there too.

Regina: “This is a waste of time.”
Sometimes you’re so right, Your Excellency.

Regina: “Fine. You wanna follow the evil Munchkins’ dirt road? Be my guest.”
sings:… follow the dark dirty road, follow the dark dirty road, follow, follow, follow, follow, follow the dark dirty road…

Ariel: “Does it fit right? Because it just feels a little…”
Snow: “Tight? That’s a corset. It’s supposed to be.”
Snow should know something about tight corsets, too tight corsets even.

Ariel: “Mini-trident… Salad-trident?”
time to give aspiring princesses some education

Ariel: “He’s just as I remember… Less wet… But more handsome.”
no subtext here, this is a completely innocent show, totally family friendly, PG, like fairy tales

Prince Eric: “Tomorrow I’m exploring the unknown land… the desert from this realm to Agrabah.”
… to explore strange new worlds… (sorry, old Trekkie habit) might have been a hint of the size of the Great Wall of China

Ariel: “No. Uhm, I mean… Yes. I mean no.”
Hope she won’t get that confused when they’re going to marry, if.

Regina: “Ugh”
yup, any talk and view of true love, makes one want to… at least when you’re an evil queen or alike

Regina: “Next time you let someone fall to their death, make sure they’re actually dead.”
but even then death is never a sure thing, not in TV serials or fantasy movies

Peter Pan: “The game is about to get interesting.”
if you say so

Rumple: “You’re just a figment of my self-conscious.”
you’re wrong, it’s the shadow
(nice wordplay, but not sure if it’s not a bit too much to ask from average viewers, might not even be enough to have done psychology 101 for this one, although Wikipedia does help a little here; there is C.G. Jung’s concept of self, and he had this idea of an archetype shadow… which though would be more connected with the unconscious and not so much with conscious self, although, whatever, something to talk about elsewhere, maybe)

Ariel: “Well, what sould I expect from a long-dead myth?”
everything

Regina: “What is this? Amateur hour?”
suppose so

Regina: “I care because I’ve been camping with the Charmings for a week and getting nowhere.”
in other words: “I’m a fairy tale celebrity – Get me out of here!”, in Germany known as Dschungelcamp aka Jungle Camp)

Regina: “You’re not gonna die at anyone’s hands but my own.”
hear that, Rumple, and stop being such a worrisome, self-conscious fool of an imp

Ariel: “You’re… real.”
Regursula: “As real as the legs you’re standing on.”
as real

Ariel: “The bracelet, it’s magic. I got it from Ursula. By wearing it, you get my tail, and I can keep my legs.”
fair deal, isn’t it

Hook: “The only way to rescue someone from inside is to reveal a secret.”
Snow: “A secret? That’s all?
yeah, that’s all, you just talked about the power secrets can have, didn’t you

Hook: “Your darkest secret.”
Oh, scary, darkest secret, not just any secret will do.

Hook:” Echo cave derives its name from an old saying… ‘the deeper the lie, the more truth in its echo’ The cave demands that you reveal a truth about yourself. A secret you would never admit to anyone.”
pop-psychologist’s technobabble so to speak, but someone had to give the exposition.

Emma:”This is ridiculous.”
right there with you

Hook: “Don’t kill the messenger, luv.”
We won’t, but maybe the writers will, someday (couldn’t help it)

Hook: “He believes once we do, our secrets will destroy us.”
Set them free, if you love somebody (and that’s probably too subtle). Pan’s special group therapy for wicked family and friends

Regina: “Look at the catch of the day.”
we do

Regina:”Having trouble with your fin?”
Snow: “I’ll figure it out!”
There are places where you can learn to swim like a mermaid, just follow the blue road, uhm the link http://www.magictail.de/index.php?lang=en

Regina: “You went to a long-dead octopus for advice, and you’re going to blame me for your problems?”
ever so charming

Emma: “So what? Someone tells their secret and they sprout wings?”
that would be too easy

Ursula: “Next time you claim to be me, you’ll find out just how real I am. Don’t ever do that again.”
Never cross a sea goddess, not even as evil queen

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[Myril]

Found it intriguing. Putting Dracula into a kind of steampunk universe and giving it a flair of League of Extraordinaire Gentleman – I like that mix. A supernatural avenger. And love who they are pairing him up with. Saw it coming, but it’s something to my taste (actually one could guess it in the first scene already). Interesting supporting characters. The show is dark but playful with popular characters. Fun. Besides that great costumes (not caring if they are en detail according to period), film-sets and good photography. And a very interesting score, though could hear the Zimmer influence on the composer Trevor Morris (I’ve given shows and movies a try sometimes just because of the soundtrack composer, so sure pay attention to that).

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[Myril]

I know…I know…I agree, it’s rash…but the book is SO BAD. I sincerely hope for Jamie’s sake it isn’t. It’ll probably make tons of money anyway. It’ll probably be another Twilight saga (and don’t get me started on THOSE books!)

With you, in this, bigred.  Nice to hear I’m not the only one who keeps falling asleep reading 50 shades. So wish someone would write interesting and well written romance for a change. There is better written fanfiction. And the Twilight saga, well, yeah, better keep silent about it.

But the thing is, the books have a certain popularity, are simple in story and attractive for big mainstream cinema. No matter how bad the script and the movie, people will watch it and be it out of curiosity. The biggest risk for Jamie Doran is, that after it people might be unable to see him beyond this role, that he will be pretty much stuck with it and the type, limiting eventually his creative possibilities. Maybe he doesn’t mind it, maybe it will be different for him, whatever, his decision if to play the role.

Very sure him playing the role will not make me watch the movie version of 50 shades either out of any other reason than being interested in cinema and anthropology/sociology of it. Sometimes watch the worst stuff just because it’s popular and that is of interest for research.

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[Myril]

myril wrote: Wrote it before: It doesn’t matter if billions of people watch a show sometime. To sell it to advertising industry it only matters, how many people age between 8-49 watch it in a certain time frame. Live numbers count most, DVR+3 has still a bit of worth, everything else is cosmetics. You might find that unfair, but that is business. Again: It’s about money not about popularity, and different from what common people assume, that is by far not the same.

BUT as viewer use ON DEMAND watching / streaming / hulu / net flicks etc more and more the advertisers pay attention. REGULAR BROADCAST (same day) TV is loosing it’s clout. Tech Talker /Tech Stuff PODCAST just had episodes on how the viewing habits are changing and advertisers are adapting their advertising campaigns. Listen if you get a chance… they can be downloaded on iTunes.
.
.

Yes, they are paying more attention to it in the sense that they’ve noticed, that more people are using these ways to watch and more often. But they have yet to find a good way to monetize it. So, people watch shows in other places, but are they willing to endure plenty of advertising while doing so? Besides, Netflix and Hulu are yet not really open about their numbers, and despite all the hype around on demand viewing particular via the web, the majority is still watching good old network TV. That Tech podcasts are getting excited about on demand viewing is no surprise, but more important is if business economist get excited about it.

Sorry for bothering so much with money and business views, but that is what ratings are about. It’s no popularity contest, and neither about quality nor tech.

edit: Just read this interesting article about what is called “upscale young adults” and TV ratings. No mention of OUaT though. But it gives an idea, that the rating numbers we get to see are just a fraction of the data they have and are interested in.

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