[Myril]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Once Neilsen adds their new fancy Social media thing-y, it will be worth noting that last night during the East Coast airing, both Henry and Peter Pan were trending. During the West Coast airing, #AskOnce was trending. I guess for the new ratings thing-y…that’s…good. Myril?

Trending on Twitter is of course something that is noted, but has to be taken with a pinch of salt.

Not sure, where you saw it trending, but if on your own twitter website, you have to know, that what you see there in the box as trending depends on your own setting, which region you choose. Good thing is for a TV show it already does matter if it trends regional.

Second what is shown as trending is not what is the most popular thing people are talking about at a given moment, it is about the most recent, breaking topic, presenting more that there is a burst of tweets for a hashtag, word in short time. That means for example, that the more people have used a hashtag over a longer time the more it takes to show on the list of trending topics. It can be something that actually a lot people are talking about all of a sudden, but it can be also something totally new, before never mentioned, that just enough people are talking about that very moment. As well, if there is little chatter on Twitter overall it takes less to get a topic trending than during prime time. Let’s say it’s like with birds in early morning. At a certain time you hear many of them chirping nearly at once, but you will not that much notice single birds chirping. Over the day it quiets down and you will notice pretty much every single bird chirping.

There are a couple of sites around giving you overview what is trending right or in the past 24 hours in a more comfortable visual way than you see on the Twitter site (and if you’re willing to pay some amount of money of course can get data reaching longer back). Wasn’t able to keep an eye on it for this final episode though, sorry.

But if you want to get an idea, how it will look like what Niesen Twitter Rating will show go to this site: SocialGuide Intelligence. Ignore the nifty graph, scroll down and look at the lists. You can change the view, advice to choose broadcast&cable primetime (airtime only), because this gives the best overview, which prime time TV shows people were tweeting about.

And Once did quite good. Something interesting to note is, that Game of Thrones (GoT) had more retweets but Once was doing better in unique comments, a share of 2.94 for Once compared to 1.8 for GoT (hoover over the numbers in the list to see it). looking at that Once did best this Sunday primetime, although was to be expected most talked of show was Survivor looking at just the sheer number of tweets. Such details are though interesting for marketing.

For further reading: Trending on Twitter: A Look at Algorithms Behind Trending Topics

[Myril]

Ah, the t-thing again … better get cookies, hot chocolate, just in case 😉

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I don’t know about NL time moving faster. You don’t age in NL and clearly Neal didn’t, he was 14 for a very long time. If anything NL’s time is much slower.

Not aging would mean either time is frozen in Neverland, it has just one loooong ever lasting day. Or it means that for the people the process of aging is suspended. Think the later. In other words: the staying forever young wonder of Neverland is independent of pace of time there.

That the day and night cycle in Neverland might be faster doesn’t though necessarily mean, that time moves faster, someone being there just will think or feel like it does, because the cycle is something we use as reference to determine time. Now if you have an atomic clock at hand, it is possible, that it shows the same time ticking away for Neverland and for example our world despite different night and day cycle. Just to make things more complicate 😉 Human time perception is a tricky thing often not in line with time measured with any kind of technical means (mechanical, chemical whatever).

@DanielJLewis wrote:

[*]Neverland can move through time. This can still explain Wendy’s time perception, but it would also explain how Peter may have seen or known of Henry long before he was born. If Neverland can move through time, then it could have returned Hook and Neal to their respective destinations at any points in the timeline.[/list]

So I think Neverland can move through time, but it could only connect to our world once Bae broke through and introduced magic.

I probably made some heads spin.

Move in time (and space) – reminds me of a certain island on a certain show which certain writers of this show here have been involved with.

In my opinion it still would contradict what K&H said in an interview, that time in OUaT is linear. I lean more towards the theory of a seer. Although of course still can question, why anyone is able to get views on future events if time is strictly linear. Now I think that OUaT is still more rooted in the mythology and structure of folk and fairy tales. Fairy tales universe know prophesies and seers but not usually time travel or crossing the barriers of time and space. People might fall asleep for some decades, centuries, be immortal, be able to see the future, see fate, manipulate fate, but they don’t jump around in time, different from science fiction. Not that I think that they would not mix up the genres, they do, but as I see it they still try to keep things more in the fairy tales logic. After all this show is called Once Upon a time and not Lost. 😛

But temporal mechanics is everybody’s fave subject at the academy, isn’t it, 😆

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[Myril]

@Jcbk wrote:

Hi. First time poster. I was thinking that it isn’t that time works differently in neverland …it’s that it doesn’t work at all. It’s stuck in time. Or there is no time. Maybe like SB. So it’s linear to all time lines? Maybe it has its own curse?

Welcome to the forum!

Interesting idea, that time in Neverland doesn’t work at all, or is sort frozen has it had been for the people in Storybrooke. I would say, in SB only the people were frozen in time, not actually SB itself (well, they had cellphones, so progress happened there), but that is detail. Neverland though could be a whole realm frozen in time, maybe. No time is unlikely, because, well, no time means the end of distinction, end of life. Time is besides space the one thing that makes sure we’re not one big undistinguishable nothing. 😉

Temporal mechanics can give headaches even after years of science fiction geeking out. 😆

*Goes to prepare some cookies and hot chocolate with cinnamon* Looks we will need it, plenty of comfort eating for months of discussions, speculations and crazyness to come.

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[Myril]

Wasn’t expecting them to go there, but before the final episode and already knowing of the shadow it was the only twist that I could think of, which would make the whole Home Office thing finally interesting, getting the Lost Boys and Peter Pan involved with some arcane motive. The idea of Wendy, the Darlings starting the thing was, well, too convenient for my taste, too much still Disney, but I have sometimes a dark, wicked mind if it comes to story telling. Of course it would have been a dark twist in some way too, if the Home Office had started as something different, something to bring back Bae for good, but even that sounded too predictable to me. Although there is still that theory, that the shadow is in some way connected to Rumple’s quest to find Bae and reunite with him. Well, who knows.

Have to say, I was somewhat worried where the show is going, finding the past couple of episodes not so promising, but with this twist they saved this season for me. Mostly, still not all intrigued by this Home Office thing, I found Greg and Tamara plain boring, still find them boring, but it’s better than anything I had feared would happen in the end.

edit: Just remembered a story by Hans Christian Andersen called The Shadow. How could I have forgotten about that one in all discussion so far will stay a mystery. Don’t think they are working with this story, though who knows, but for some inspiration: Hans Christian Andersen The Shadow

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[Myril]

K&H made it clear, that time is linear in OUaT. So no travel back in time, although time might work differently in different realms. So most likely some seer described Henry or drew the picture or it was shown to the big mysterious being (Peter Pan) via something like a mirror, a reflection in a pool, water showing future.

Interesting idea, that maybe there had been a look-alike of Henry in the past, but the events of Neverland, Bae getting there, Hook, what we have seen so far, happened definitely before Henry jr. was born, no matter how differently time works in Neverland, otherwise time wouldn’t be linear on UOaT.

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[Myril]

Think it makes sense to leave Belle behind, if seeing it from Gold’s perspective. And for the sake of story telling.

First: Gold isn’t expecting at this moment to come back from this tour alive. When you love people you want to protect them from harm, pain as best as possible. And even though losing a loved one causes pain no matter what, people knowing or thinking that they’re dying often try to make it as easy as they can for those who have to stay behind, who will have to live with the loss. Gold doesn’t want Belle to suffer seeing im getting undone, what he thinks means getting killed.

Second: Gold seems to have a bit of an idea who they might have to face, and it sounds dangerous, so taking Belle with him would mean putting her into harm’s way. Letting her stay in SB, with giving her the means to protect the town from outsiders again with a cloaking spell looks right now to be the safer choice.

Belle understands Gold better than anyone, and she loves him. As painful as it is for her she let’s him go alone, trusting her feelings, that despite what Gold believes, he will come back. Besides that she might have to deal with some stuff on her own, and bit of alone time might be good for her to deal with the Lacey side of herself.

Sadly the latter might be nothing we’re going to see on the show, to avoid things becoming to confusing by jumping between even more places and times now, but it’s what I see as her story while she is in SB and together with the dwarfs, Granny, Red takes care of things there. Some more buddy moments for Belle with Grumpy and with Ruby. But admittely I like Belle as character on her own more than I like Rumbelle.

I know, the writers are breaking all Rumbelle shippers’ hearts, because we probably are not going to see any Rumbelle action in present time for a while, but it is very much in character in my opinion. And I can think of plenty of interesting stories, besides the happy reunion moment that some day will come. Storywise think letting Belle stay in SB is far more interesting than letting her go with Gold and the others to hunt for Henry. The Jolly Joker is already crowded with heroes and anti-heroes.

Know I am repeating myself: Happy endings come at the end of a story. So, sorry, either happy endings or some more seasons for the show, seasons where all one true love couples will go through plenty of angst and drama and being kept apart by inner or outer forces. Happy endings can be more likely found in real life than on any TV series 😉

Concerning the Blue Fairy: Did Gold ever trust fairies? So why should he give his spell to her? Gold isn’t really a reasonable guy if it comes to fairies. Besides, they were a bit in a rush to follow Greg and Tamara and Henry, the Blue Fairy was nowhere near the docks as far as we know.

Think that Gold had worked out the new cloak spell over the past days while being with Lacey, but was a little too busy with hanging out with her to get everything to actually enact the spell. Now, when deciding that the one thing to do to honor his son is to go on a quest to get Henry back, and that he wants Belle to stay in SB (to be safe), he gave Belle the spell, trusting she will find a way to cast it, so she will be protected. It’s though not something anyone could cast in a second, it takes preparations, so even Gold couldn’t do it in that moment.

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[Myril]

You’re welcome 😀

H.O or THO the Home Office – term used in the show for an organisation that seems to have a big deal against magic and allegedly tries to drive it out of our world (and maybe other worlds?), Greg and Tamara are working for it

the t-word – used to avoid using the word timeline because a growing number of forum members are having a crazy fit when reading it, and then are in serious need of some cookies, chocolate, hot chocolate with cinnamon, or alternatively in summer ice cream.

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[Myril]

Putting this here, although it’s not specific for OUaT, but something a fandom should know about. There is occasionally a bit of confusion it seems, who to call regular, main cast, major character, recurring character, minor character, what means what, so bit of general info to make it hopefully clearer. Let’s find some common ground…

Character status and actor status are connected but are not one and the same.

Characters

main character/ major character: the central character of the overall narrative, the stories revolve around them, protagonist and antagonist as classical model. In TV series there is often more than one main character, so you have an ensemble cast, often called main cast (main cast is also understood as all the regulars on the show, although it might be not quite the same, see below)

supporting character / secondary character / minor character: a character that is not the focus of primary storylines, they serve the story of the major characters. They can have their own backstory, but mostly in relation to main characters; eventually, particular if they become popular, they become main characters

regular character: appearing in every episode or most episodes

recurring character: a character who appears from time to time on a show, effecting the storyline on a regular basis

guest character: a character usually showing in one or a few episodes, being important (only) for a story line of the episode

one shot character: appearing for just one episode, can be a guest characters or a minor character

bit character (> Under-Five): a character having very little dialogue (less than 5 lines) in an episode (different from minor character, who can have more lines)

Red-shirts: often one shot guys or characters who had been recurring extras at best before, who get killed mostly in the first act of the show, to undermine, that there is deadly risk. In other words: their only narrative function is to get killed, at best the audience does care a little for them before they die. Term comes form Star Trek The Originals, where such characters often wore red shirts. No sometimes used as well for guest characters or recurring characters who seemed to have been brought in only to be killed off to create drama for one of the main characters (like Graham)

recurring extra:people in the background, who keep showing up; sometimes becoming very popular, a running joke, like Morn on Star Trek Deep Space Nine. typically non-speaking but might also be an Under-Five

breakout character: a minor, recurring character who becomes a popular character and eventually permanent and main cast. A very good example for such a development is the character Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer, also Jonathan, who was first a recurring extra before advancing to minor and then recurring

You can say there are major supporting characters, characters more important than others to the storylines but still not main characters. Dr. Whale fore example is not a main character, but still attracted some popularity and had an episode telling his background story – a supporting character but not a minor one, more of a major minor. And as much as love Red and Meghan Ory, I would count Red this season only as a major supportive character (at best) . Bill the mouse was a typical guest minor character. As you can see, the categories focus on different ways to see a character, and can be sometimes combined for better distinction.

(Distinction between main, major and supporting, minor character is a bit less clearer for TV than for movie because the importance of character can differ between episodes and over the season)

Actor status

regular / contracted role: appears usually on regular basis on the show, and be it just for a few minutes, has to be available (in other words, in this case they don’t pay the actor just for acting but as well for being available), usually credited in the opening credits even if they not appear on the specific episode. Contract sometimes give a guarantee of episodes an actor is in (like 10 out of 12). Most of the time the regulars are the main cast of a show,but that is no necessity. Mostly they are main character, but in bigger ensemble shows it is possible that some regulars don’t get much screen time and appear more as supporting characters

recurring role: appears only if needed (and his usually booked like a guest role, each episode individually, although of course it is possible to book a number of episodes at once to make sure to have the person for the story arc). Recurring roles are credited like guest stars (And before you think, it is always desirable to become a regular on a show, there might be reasons why staying a recurring guest star can makes sense for the actor, they don’t have to be available, they intend to work for other projects as well)

guest star: usually one shot characters, one maybe a few episodes

special guest star: appearance of a popular actor, celebrity

cameo role: brief appearance of a known person typically unnamed or as themselves. Hitchcock for example had cameos in his movies, so did Peter Jackson; not to be mistaken with breakout roles > first noticeable role of an actor

Under-five: role with little dialogue, uner five lines in an episode

extra / background actor: usually all the people not talking

Who appears exactly where in the credits, opening or closing credits, at which position is a science in itself and “fun” for agents to negotiate. There are rules but of course there is room for subtleties, like who gets top billing, named first, who gets extra billing as last in the list of actors. often see as “actor name* starring as *character name*”. Also known as billing.

The importance of a character for the narrative of an episode or the show is something open for discussion at times, it can be a matter of view and interpretation. Status of character and contract status of actor don’t always get fully along, despite what one might think. So someone billed as regular might be of not that much importance for the story arc as a recurring role – in OUaT as good examples Red and Hook. Meghan Ory has been listed for all of the season as regular, although her character often only had little scenes and dialogue and was not crucial for the main story arcs this season, while Colin O’Donoghue was first credited “only” as (recurring) guest star, for the last episodes of the season as regular, but quite sure his character was important for the narrative most of the season.

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[Myril]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

Nielsen are changing their system, they are already running tests in collaboration with Twitter, and from Fall 2013 numbers for the “Nielsen Twitter TV Rating” will be available. It’s though only an enhancement of the classical TV viewer ratings, because it still is focused on live airing.

So here’s my question. Every Monday I wait for tvbythenumbers to put out the overnight’s for ONCE to post here. Once Nielsen changes over to this new model, which (in my opinion) finally includes stuff like Twitter, how will this change what I view for the overnights? Am I going to get to different sets of ratings: Twitter and non-Twitter?

The data will not be merged. You get the traditional set of numbers (viewers, percent, rating) and a second set of numbers for Twitter. So, yeah, bit misunderstanding to say, they change their system, they expand it. And as it is already with the present media about the numbers, the focus will still be on overnight ratings, live views. Nielsen quite sure will offer more data for money though. A study already proved, there is correlation between TV Ratings and Twitter chatter (what a surprise.not), but that is not the real interesting question about Twitter numbers. More interesting would be, if Twitter numbers correlate with other distribution ways like online streaming, but to see that you need reliable Twitter numbers and reliable numbers about online streaming, with the latter being the bigger challenge.

This fall Nielsen as well will become more serious about collecting data about online streaming via computer, tablets, smartphone, although they might still struggle to do so for single tv shows, so we won’t get to see these numbers in the public normal TV ratings we get. While TV companies have a huge interest to see how which show does on which day and at which time of day, for a third party streaming provider like Netflix such data might be something they have less interest in, and Nielsen would need their cooperation to collect more detailed numbers. Good article about it. Nielsen just started to track online streaming of some of the TV companies, those numbers though won’t be visible in the normal TV rating numbers, and guess will be hardly at all at this point accessable for average people like us, aka won’t be public. see article

Concerning demographics and TV: Numbers show younger people are not the ones spending most time with watching TV. Surprise 😉 More so, the Baby Boomers are simply getting older, and they are the big number in audience, there are just more of them. It might look differently, because younger people watching TV are more visible, more talkative and sociable about it. People age 55 and older so far were seldom the target group for advertising though, so not interesting for TV ratings. Statistics are only important when they matter, otherwise they are just numbers.

Okay, this soon will turn into an online course about TV ratings and future of scripted TV shows 😆

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[Myril]

@HeatherC1275 wrote:

That punk theme really made the actors and actresses make some interesting fashion choices earlier this week, LOL 😆

The punk themed Met ball… Punk and red carpet… The demise of Punk. 🙄 😆

Allure Exclusive: Jennifer Morrison’s 2013 Met Gala Prep

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