[Myril]

@Phee wrote:

I liked that they showed Rumple teaching each of them a different way to summon magic. I hope it shows his own evolution in what he believes for himself. Like I said in another thread, he could have said to Emma, “Think how much you hate the people you want kept out,” but instead he said, “Think how much you want to protect the ones you love.”

I’m not so sure if for Emma in that moment it would have worked as well with negative emotions than it did with tapping in her protective, caring positive emotions. One thing Rumple is big master in is reading people, and that means among other things seeing what drives them in general and in a specific moment. Now ask yourself, what emotions drove Cora, were strongest in her when she was there locked up in the tower, and which emotions have been driving Emma the most, were strongest the moment she was in the shop? Think Rumple made both tap very simple into the emotions strongest for them that moment – so if Emma would have been boiling of anger and hate in the shop he would have told here to use that, but that weren’t the strongest emotions she felt at that time. So, no I doubt it shows any evolution in what Rumple believes in, he is just making use of what is there, the same opportunist he has been for hundred of years.

I think even more so because of what he said in the end scene. As usual Gold / Rumple claims he did nothing. Nope, of course not, all fate, destiny, the doing of others, he’s just a tool making happen what has to happen. Same old story, same old guy, he has changed little if at all. So I am not at all thrilled how he makes Emma use magic, don’t trust his motivation.

Emma has the potential to become one or the other, as everybody has. I don’t think that her being the “product” of true love kinda immunise her against ever using magic for bad things or being motivated to use it out of negative emotions. If anything she might have a slightly better pole position for the good side, but as evil is not born but made, so good is made and not born.

Gold claiming to be full of love was a sentence which made me chuckle. It is the way he wants to see it, wants others to see him maybe, but doesn’t tell he is. Not sure even if Gold believed in it himself the moment he said it, I have my doubts. His words to Belle and to Neal were honest, but they were words. I haven’t seen him do anything so far that wasn’t for his benefit, nothing truly selfless, no remorse, he has not even begun to walk a path of redemption yet, not in my opinion (neither has Regina). Not saying Rumple never can get there, but there is a long, long way for him to go. And maybe one of the things he will have to do before ever getting close to redemption is to give up using magic, no matter if he could do even good. But first of all, he has to stop saying, he did nothing, accept responsibility and not blame fate or someone else – and it doesn’t matter if he is alone responsible for something or just had some hand in it, just show some backbone and take responsibility. True love’s magic might be able to break the curse of the Dark One, but that is only one thing that has to happen for Gold / Rumple to truly change.

@Keb wrote:

After seeing the differences in how Rumple trained Cora and Regina in magic and how Gold coaches Emma, I find myself going back to his fascination with bottling True Love. While intellectually he might have known (and probably did) about the reputed power of True Love, I don’t think he was especially interested in it until Belle. He mocks it even on the day he takes her home with him. But after having experienced its power for the first time himself, he gets on the Snowing wagon quickly–in part for the power of it, but I think he’s actually sincere when he tells people at that point that he’s a fan of True Love (as well as what it creates).

So perhaps, having been exposed to that power, he’s realized that anger and hatred aren’t the only ways to invoke magic. I think there’s reason to believe that he couldn’t comprehend that until he fell in love with Belle.

Possible.

Wonder when he created the Dark Curse and gave it to Regina the first time – was that before or after he met Belle? I know, the show hasn’t told that yet. Would be very interesting to know.

How long did it take Rumple to come up with the curse? Okay, maybe for a long time he was looking for other ways, but somehow think, Rumple is not the guy to first waist long time for that and then come back to the idea of a curse, guess he was working on it all the time. He might have created it early, just had to wait for the right person to cast it. Or it as well might have taken a while for him to figure out, what it would take to make a curse work the way he needed it. I wonder because it just struck me, that to make the curse work for his purpose Rumple had to tap into the dark side of people as much as into the good side. Only by combining the powers of both sides the curse did its job, bring everybody to the land without magic, letting them adapt to the new world first without their Fairy Tale identities and memories and then after breaking the curse restore them so that he finally could go looking for Bae in this other world. Why was it necessary to make the thing so complicate anyway, there must be a reason for that. Anyway, it took dark magic as much as good magic (power of true love) to make it work. Might haven taken a bit to make him realize that, maybe it took even his experience with Belle before he had the epiphany.

[Myril]

Cora: I for one would like to be able to eat this week.
(she’s right to be angry, what a loser of a father)

King Xavier: She’s a very important woman.
Cora: She’s a girl.
(you might be very right about this one too, Cora. But what fun how often it was said on the show the other way around, a woman called a girl who made clear she is a woman)

Gold: You’re hoping I bleed to death now, aren’t you?
Emma: You’re Henry’s grandfather. We’re family now. I’m gonna save you.
Gold: Oh I feel so reasured
(yeah, well, right, Emma didn’t sound any thrilled about it, but she is a woman of her word, that you should know by now, Grumpel, uhm Mr. Gold)

Cora: I don’t like what that enchanted box was saying. I’m not … I’m not wicked.
Regina: It’s not an enchanted box. It’s a phone tap.
(beg to differ, dearie. For most people these things are magic, I spent endless hours as customer care representative to explain to them, how they can make similar boxes work) 😆

Cora: I am very, very … I… I’m a goose, aren’t I?
Henry sr.: I don’t know, let’s find out. Can a goose waltz?
(silly girl, uhm, woman. And this silly person, or goose, can waltz, but not lay golden eggs)

Cora: I just came for the free food
(who doesn’t, what other reason is there to get into uncomfortable shoes, breath taking dresses, wear silly masks, dance all night with bad dancers and do agonizing small and buzz talk but free food and drinks)

King Xavier: There is straw on your dress. You carry the mill with you, miller’s daughter.
(better some straw on the dress than being all naked, ah, wait, that was a different fairy tale)

David: You have the purest heart of anyone I have ever known. It’s ‘s who you are and that’s who you’re gonna stay.
(someone still believes)

Rumple: (giggles) That’s never gonna work. I mean you’ll escape, but you’ll be dead. Kind of defeats the purpose, doesn’t it.
(right, it does)

Cora: Who are you?
Rumple: Who are you?
Cora: Cora
Rumple: Not a very pretty name, is it? Sounds like something breaking.
(charming Rumplestiltskin)

Rumple: You are a spicy one, aren’t ya?
(yup!)

David: We’re all clear outside … Everything okay?
(not inside. Ah, the ignorance of parents …)

Mary Margret: There’s no coming back from murder.
Gold: And there is no coming back from death either, and that is what will happen to your loved ones.
(no threat, no, Gold is as always completely innocent, no matter what)

Emma: I drew the invisible line … I think.
(well, we can’t tell you)

Emma: I can’t cast a spell. I can spell “spell”.
Gold: You can, it’s in you.
Emma: How? Here? Like from my brain?
(no, use your stomach, stupid) 🙄

Rumple. Stop thinking! Conjuring magic is not an intellectual endeavour. It’s emotion. You must ask yourself, why am I doing this, who am I protecting. Feel it!
(the force is with you, or so, err, wait, the good side of the force meant to overcome emotions

King Xavier: You’re just a miller’s daughter
Cora: I’m so much more.
(indeed)

Rumple: Love the dress.
Cora: Royal brides have to be snow white.
Rumple: (giggles) Aah. When you see the future, there is irony everywhere.
(no kidding!)

Rumple: I can give you nothing but darkness and isolation.
Cora: And love.
Rumple: yeah, and love.
(aah, some are not meant to be, sorry)

King Xavier: Love is weakness.
(so he is the one who we have to thank for that groundbreaking insight) 😯

Gold (to Belle via phone): I know that you’re … confused about who you are. So I’m gonna tell you. You are a hero who helped your people. You’re a beautiful woman who loved an ugly man. Really, really love me. You find goodness in others. And when it’s not there, you create it. You make me wanna go back, back .. to the best version of me. And that never happened before. So when you look at the mirror and you don’t know who you are, that’s who you are. Thank you … Belle.
(without words) 🙁

Neal: Didn’t know you had that in you.
Rumple, Oh, I’m full of love.
(a man of surprises. like son like father) 😮

Mary Margarete: She can’t love you, you know. She doesn’t have her heart. With it, maybe she can. That’s why you never felt she loved you. She doesn’t have her heart. But I do.
(true words but oh so dark to use it in this moment) 😯

Mary Margaret: The choice is yours.
(wait isn’t that Rumple’s line?)

Cora: You told me not to let anything stop me until they’re on their knees. My heart was stopping me.
(heart in the box. solves everything. or not)

Mary Margret: You were right. This isn’t me.
(now it is)

Cora: You two, out of the way!
(mind your own business, kids, let adults talk – the look on Emma’s and Neal’s face somehwere in the woods – priceless) 😎

Rumple: Did you ever love me?
Cora: Why do you think I had to rip my own heart out? You were my weakness. You are the only man I ever truly loved.
(we all want to do that heart ripping thing at some point, don’t we)

Cora: This would have been enough. You … you would have been enough.
(late insight. heartbreaking)

Rumple: I did nothing.
(as always) 😈

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

Because I think this episode worked so well in many ways, have a hard time to find least favorite moments. Could do a bit of nitpicking, but maybe not.

So just my most favorite moments:

– the opening shot, the camera moving down with the sail of the mill, down onto the passed out miller on his cart and then pulling back showing the mill and in the background again the castle, Cora coming from behind the camera positions into the picture. Great opening. In seconds and just visual we get where we are, who and what it is about.

– Emma talking to Gold on the ship. She is so not thrilled of him being family (and her face and tone said it all), but he is family, so she is going to take good care of him. No smooth sailing for these two. Noticed the rocking of the camera, uhm ship.

– this spectacular shot at the beginning of the ball scene, this close up of the mask, the music … ball scene music has to be on the next soundtrack CD. All of the ball scene, the dancing, music, dresses, lighting, camera work … Cora’s red dress – simple but nifty.

– David at the haven talking to Snow, trying to talk a bit of sense into her. Another moment of “true” love in this episode, besides others to come up

– Gold and Snow at the shop. Gold knows how to push buttons. And Snow is unfortunately very ready to listen. Tense.

– Rumple teaching Cora to spin gold. Seductive. And the way Rose McGowan said something like bloodlust … Let’s say I probably will never be able to see someone spinning again without some distracting thoughts coming up on my mind.

Intrigued by the difference and similarity between this scene and the scene before with Emma.

And pretty much loved every scene, moment with Robert Carlyle and Rose McGowan. Just a pleasure to watch them acting together.

– Gold talking to Belle on the phone. Lovely moment. Including the reactions of Neal and Emma and the following moment between son and father. If anyone wants to know what the show is about at its very core, this is one of the scenes to show (oh yes, that coming from me who questions to distinguish love and true love). Great writing, great acting.

– Snow pushing Regina’s buttons. Dark. Very dark. No matter how justifiable killing Cora was, this was maybe the toughest thing for Snow to do, the toughest thing since she sent Emma alone on her own through the wardrobe (the latter not a dark moment but a tough choice too). And it was her darkest moment so far. It will pain Snow – and that is the good news so to speak, Snow still has a conscience. She regretted it the minute she sent Regina on her way to put the cursed heart into Cora. Too late to stop it.

Some irony, that the very candle Cora offered Snow to try to manipulated her to do something dark in the end exactly was a tool in doing something that will make Snow feel bad and question her heart and feel dark, but that as well that very candle killed the one who brought it up in the first place. In a twisted way Cora had a hand in her own undoing.

– the daughter – mother moment between Regina and Cora, Cora at the end seeing she made a mistake choosing power over love. What a sad, tragic moment (and what acting by Lana Parilla and Barbara Hershey). The Queen (of Hearts, what irony this name) is dead, long live the (Evil) Queen.
As well though relieve that Cora is gone, right. Ding, dong the witch is dead (stupid phrase, but who wasn’t humming it?)

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

I’m happy for Meghan Ory and cross fingers it works out. Of course I hope we nevertheless get to see a bit of Red or Ruby on Once, it’s a great character, but even more I’m excited for Meghan to get a chance to show more of her art.
And the plot sounds interesting. Hopefully with some more female element than Person of Interest has, but as sci-fi fan willing to take a look at the series, if it will become one.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

@RumplesGirl wrote:

I think even if we get a response from Jane about this questions, I’m going to maintain that Cora never really loved Rumple because she didn’t know what love was.

Hmmm. So Cora couldn’t love Rumple because she didn’t know what love is – because she never had loved anyone or experienced love until then? Sounds a bit like circular reasoning to me. If true it means Cora ripped her heart out before knowing and experiencing what love is – but then how did she know that she loved when she got her heart back shortly before she died?

Are we born with a knowledge what love is, is it something we learn by the people around us, through experience, or maybe it’s a mix of all, instincts, learning process, experience?

Sorry, I know, I am a pain in the behind 😉 Well, if any of you ever need a debate coach, we can talk about a deal.

And think Jane Espenson did answer it last night already, when looking at her tweets and replies. Besides what was already posted here, she replied as well, that one can love more than one person in very different ways, but that there is something different about his love for Belle. So if you like you can say, Rumple felt love for Cora, but he feels true love only for Belle. I kinda can settle with that for here for the moment, despite that I question if it makes sense to distinguish true love and love at all.

I question the concept of true love because aside other things the phrasing with true makes it always sound like there is an untrue form of love, and furthermore, if you believe in the concept of just one true love possible in life, it means any other romantic relationship not matter how caring, loving it was is in the end less true, maybe even untrue, fake – won’t accept that idea. There is love or there is no love. I believe every love is different, individual, unique, it’s never the same. And it can feel very true and be true for the moment, but that doesn’t mean that I still see and feel it that way later. And I say love can change during a relationship, it can lessen as it can grow. It can be true and turn into a lie, it can be a lie at first and turn out to be the real thing. Love is a process nothing fixed. And who am I to judge if someone’s feeling to somebody at a certain point are or were true or untrue love?

I don’t know if Rumple or Cora felt deep love for each other, but the way they acted with each other looked to me like there was something more going on for a moment than just attraction and lust. Whatever it started out as and whatever it ended up as, I think there was for a second a chance, a chance both missed.

Sometimes love isn’t enough.

After hearing the podcast with Adam and Eddy (I was just done writing this when it came up): Sorry to RumplesGirl and some others. Feel with you despite that what they say comes close to what I am thinking. Seriously. It is not easy to wrap one’s mind around views others have.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

It’s hard to imagine, that Rumple came back to teach her more after what happened. On the other hand Rumple’s true goal always was to find Bae, and he followed that no matter what. So if Cora’s daughter was the one his glimpses into the future told him to be important and maybe the most likely to enact the curse for him he probably tried nevertheless to keep some influence on Cora, maybe tried a second time to somehow get a hand on Regina, before he succeeded later when she was about to marry King Leopold. I too was wondering about the book of spells, because Rumple said it was his, so he gave it to Cora. Then Regina secretely took it from Cora, after she had pushed her into the mirror Regina wanted to give it to Rumple, but Rumple talked her into keeping it and learn more magic. But when did Cora get the book and how? And Rumple did say, he had Regina in his arms, so there has to be more story (rewatching the second episode of this season, We are Both).

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

Highly doubt that. Just look at the crest of the guards, their uniform colors, the kingdom of King Xavier was a different kingdom. If Leopold was the older brother he would have been first in succession of King Xavier, so why should Leopold take over the signs, crest and all of another kingdom, of that of princess Eva maybe? Unless they have some weird rule of succession or he had a total fallout with his father. And as Phee said, there was nothing that made them look like brothers.
By the way, it was not the Kingdom of King George either, again different crest, uniforms, colors.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

😆 malchore. As long as you don’t reduce her to be a body, reduce her to her looks think we’re fine 😉 Be assured, I like looking at her a lot, and I’m not a guy.

RumplesGirl – you described it quite well. Not just cold though, but a mix of cold and still vulnerable. Not to mention she really can pull it of to be seductive while at the same time being seduced. No, didn’t feel sorry for her either, but could see her point of view. Rose McGowan said in an interview, that she thinks, that Cora was at first not so much power-mad but mad at her lack of power. And that is what she showed.

I was excited to see her in the role, expecting something good, and was not disappointed. Rose McGowan did great, love her scenes. Hope very much to see her again in this role.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

If they would act all rational they should see that there is no point at all, sword or whatever silly weapon they use, to win a fight against such powerful magic, so why don’t they surrender? 😉 😈

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Myril]

Welcome to the forums! 😀
So, guess, you survived the wait for the episode and watching it – good. Looking forward to your thoughts about it, the show and more.

¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯

[Author]

Posts