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And if the rumors and theories circulating about Regina actually meeting Robin in that Tavern, and a certain dark imp erasing their memories…then OutlawQueen has apparently already won this debating war.
Nothing but rumours, speculation and sketchy theories so far. If coming true the show becomes Regina fan fiction IMO, not much good but convenient story telling, though sure some great entertainment for all who love Regina.
While a lot of people see a shipping rift in the fandom, I see a way more pronounced character rift if it comes to Regina, how she is portrayed on the show, how fans interpret her. It’s like we’re watching by now totally different shows.
What did Rumple say, “… the child will find you, and the final battle will begin.” What a prediction. What a battleground this fandom as become.
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To be a pain in the behind again: I have a problem with the increasing tumblrification, aka use of animated gifs in signatures and in postings of the forum. Okay, get it, some people need to express themselves in punchy and very visual ways, but it makes my eye twitch. Not to mention pictures eat up band with, and though with landline connection that is for most not that much of an issue anymore, it can be an issue using mobile connections. Unless a cleaned up mobile version is offered, blocking most of pictures and other shenanigans, be it as mobile version or as responsive webdesign (adapting to the device one uses).
Furthermore I think it’s important to make aware, that certain animated gifs (the flashy kind, fast moving patterns, lightning, high frequency flashing, blinking, oscillation) can actually cause seizures, photosensitive epilepsy is nothing to joke about – and not even all webdesigners and content managers are aware of that, sadly, let alone common folks. More information about photosensitivity and some examples of what can pose a trigger, what mostly not (warning: can trigger seizures). Haven’t seen as far as I remember any dangerous animated gifs on here, though a few might get close, but we should be more aware of the risks.
Frankly, I am using by now browser extensions to keep this forum bearable for me, but that means blocking all images at the moment as basic setting, only unblock in seldom case of photos directly concerning discussion, set photos, spoiler pictures. If everyone else is happy with things as they are, okay, than I am happy about my browser extensions.
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Hmm… Lily as Regina and Robin Hood’s daughter?
WHAT IF… Regina actually did go in that bar all those years ago and met Robin Hood. They were happy, they had a daughter…but Rumplestiltskin was not happy because he needed Regina to cast the curse. So he made a deal with the Snow Queen to erase Regina and Robin Hood’s memories of ever meeting each other… Regina would believe she never went into the bar, Robin Hood would eventually meed Marian, and life would go on as we had seen. The Snow Queen would have a “family” (Regina’s and Robin Hood’s daughter) as she always wanted. Not sure how they both ended up in our world… but I presume it has something to do with the Snow Queen’s abilities. I know – crack theory…
Interesting idea. How would you fit in the story with Tinkerbell losing her wings? I would suggest to have Regina meet Robin though still after the events of the tavern, then Tinkerbell’s story might be not that much altered, and we wouldn’t get headaches about that we have been shown, Regina didn’t went into the tavern. Although would have to explain how no one else remembered Regina’s pregnancy at all, we’re talking here after all about at least 9 months of memories to change for not just Regina and Robin but pretty much all of the Enchanted Forest. As bonus could hint, that the Blue Fairy and the Snow Queen were in contact, adding more fuel to the shady Blue Fairy theory.
Not liking to make Lily the daughter or relative of any of the main cast, but think if you work on the theory it might lose a bit of it’s crack nature and could make a good fan fiction even (which goes for a lot of crack theories I’ve seen about OUaT in general, just need to sit back a bit more and think it through with look at other events, characters and developments in the Once universe, after all this is fantasy and so a lot can be made possible).
Could Lily be the black fairy? Her star was black plus blue fairy is known as blue Star.
Aside that I felt like Maleficent was the candidate for Black Fairy, at least she was the first I though of when Snow first talked abut a Black Fairy, it’s an interesting idea. Though the star was flesh colored, more of a birthmark kind, but the association with black comes up easily I think, because Lily is dark haired phenotype. Yup, cliche, but one that works pretty fine with Regina and Emma, while Snow always was a big exception phenotype wise. Interesting that the show has as redheads one very cute, innocent one, aka Aurora (redhead fitting to the name though), and one nasty, wicked one, aka Zelena (Cora was brown with maybe slight reddish touch). But that is just by the way.
Another option I had been musing about for the Black Fairy has been for a while now Morgan Le Fay. Bringing this together with the idea that the hat might send magical beings to a land without magic while absorbing their magic, or Lily been set free but without her magic, the thought, that the sorcerer of the hat could be Merlin or someone who might have gone by the name Merlin for a while but is known under different names in other places… Why not mix it all into one idea. Lily is, or has been, or will become (again) Morgan Le Fay (le fay = from la fee = fairy) who was/is the Black Fairy.
Another rather spontaneous idea of mine is the Morrigan. Ocassionally Morgan Le Fay is brought in connection with the “Phantom Queen”, an Irish goddess of war, or a figure somewhat alike the Nordish Valkyries, but though the names look related they are not. (As some people confuse as well Morgause and Morgan).
There is a rumour floating around, that there might be three female villains in season 4B, based on hearsay and assumptions though, so no ones knows how reliable that is. We know, Maleficent will be back, so someone had the idea, based on A&E liking twists, that the three could be the three formerly good fairies from Sleeping Beauty. Now I had a bit of a different thought and that brought me to Morrigan, who is often depicted as one of a trio of goddesses of war. I know, it looks like already the Snow Queen might be part of a three sister thing, but they like to recycle, don’t they, and I am thinking more of three sisters in evil (don’t need to be blood related at all), each having had their own reasons to turn to doing evil things, but teaming up, well, against Rumple I would say. Have to up things a bit, don’t we, one villain against Storybrooke might not do it anymore). A grown up Lily could be one the three.
Did anyone else think that perhaps Lily’s family is abusive/neglectful? She did seem extremely upset when her father found them. Children from abusive neglected homes don’t always feel safe telling people about the abuse/neglect.
It could be that she thought Emma was a way out of her situation.
A possibility but not necessarily. Lily was adopted, we don’t know at what age, but either way, she might feel like she’s not in the place where she should be, even without any abuse. (Heck, I was not even adopted, and there was no abuse, and as teenager for a while I felt like my family wasn’t my family, not understanding me, not seeing me, and was doing some stupid stuff because of it)
You’re right, people don’t feel safe telling others about abuse/neglect, most of the times, but I didn’t get that feeling of Lily in any scene. From what I got from that scene Lily was upset because her dream of teaming up with Emma, being her best friend, running away, having a family of her own choice, was busted, and Emma was learning, that Lily had lied to her, and Lily knew that would now drive Emma away.
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Crack theory – DQ’s mirror had the power to reveal her true love, and it revealed Zelena, along with a future full of happiness and kids, that they were meant to have together. When she found out about Zelena’s death she used the mirror to watch what should have been her future until she was driven insane (like the mirror of Erised), which is why she’s only just come out of the woodwork now. She smashed the mirror in a rage one night, but in her desperate panic to fix it again she discovered a spell to combine different, powerful mirrors, that would enable her to reach into the past and save Zelena, thus saving her own future too. The mirror showed her what was meant to happen, had everything gone to plan. But then Rumple went and butchered Zelena so… oh well :/
Aside that I can’t stand Zelena (what they made of this character, they turned a basically interesting one into an annoying caricature, which even in a campy fairy tale comedy would have been tough to watch every week on screen), I like your idea in some ways. It would be motif of love, loss, reunite and maybe take revenge again, a story line this show is not always good in telling but very much inclined to tell again and again, so fits their style. But aside being maybe somewhat repetitive at least they would have a slightly different kind of setting, and, oh, kinda by the way could finally do something about more diversity, queer representation (although two white women is a bit of a trope in itself). I never like timeline tinkering, and we just had that, so I wouldn’t want the Snow Queen to succeed with any time altering plans, but find her happy ending in a different way.
Yes, I am suggesting to give the Snow Queen a happy ending, unlike Pan, unlike Cora, unlike Zelena – that I like Elizabeth Mitchell might play a tiny role in that, I admit, but I never read the story by Andersen as her being the ultimate evil but, as vague and mysterious as she was in the fairy tale, I found her fascinating and sensed a long story behind her actions, the first villain I thought of as doing evil not just for being (born) evil. Furthermore, it is getting boring, that so far the seasonal, guest villains have been all killed to solve the conflict, and why should just our main villains, Rumple, Regina, Hook get a happy ending.
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Honestly I think its difficult because of shipping. People connect to ships instead of characters (or one side of a ship so they focus too much on the one character and the other is just supposed to act in accordance to the ship). I’m guilty of it too. It makes it hard to see stuff for what it is. We get so caught up in these ships and the grand ideas of romance and when they don’t work out it’s hard to accept that maybe the writers didn’t see it how you saw it or didn’t want to continue it romantically. People have trouble seeing that their interpretation doesn’t equal the writer’s intention. We all see the show differently. We all connect to different things. That goes for the viewers and the writers. They can’t please everyone. They can’t even try to.
Agree, a lot of people are biased and not seeing anything beyond their favorite pairing or characters. Agree as well, how audience read something and what the writers intend are not one and the same, can’t even be, because different context, different point of view. It is even more complicate, every fiction exists in and has a number of different realities, the reality inside the story, the reality of the format, of the production, of the audience, of society and more. There are a lot of different ways to read a fiction, and sometimes people mix them up. For example not many make a difference between liking a character as person and as what the character means in the story. So if people like a character, they often struggle to see the character as antagonist of a story. With screen fiction things go even a step further and some people disliking a character because of it might dislike the actor portraying the character as well. And yes, people connect to different things and in different ways.
But the problem of this episode was probably that they tried to please pretty much everybody without it being possible. The fanservice though is just one rather smaller thing in this episode.
The biggest issue people have, from what I read here and in other places, and I share that issue, is Emma wanting a friendship with Regina. That is not actually fanservice, though it very sure excited all Regina fans. The writers said it enough times, that evil isn’t born, that Regina is more or less misunderstood, and deserves a chance, and I even was able to go with their view for the first season mostly, and parts of season 2, but since then less and less – and that is mainly because of how they write Regina and how they write how the other characters, particular the Charmings, Emma and Henry react to Regina. There is a growing rift in the fandom and it’s about ethics and not shipping. It’s about, as some put it (and be sure some here will jump at that phrasing), that they make Regina look like the biggest victim and misunderstood person in the worlds.
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And the reason she won’t accept FULL responsibility for her evil actions is because she knows that it’s not all her fault?
One can take full responsibility for something, can have full responsibility for something even if it is not much of their fault. It means you step up, take charge, and don’t try to explain away that bad was done, you accept, bad was done by you, you hurt someone, someone suffered because of you, and you regret it. Wallowing in self-pity is not regret in my book.
@WickedRegal we’re having very different views on the world, on the show, and we’re not going to agree with each other.¯\_(?????? ?)_/¯
I thought it was weird how the mirror was somehow magical without Sidney in it. I mean, Sidney wasn’t confined to a specific mirror, he could travel between them as he liked. Are all of the mirrors he showed up in filled with magic?
Because Sidney had been in it the very moment she freed him, there was a kind of rest residue of the magical energy that had bind him to mirrors. 😉
Seriously, good question. But seeing the mess with hearts and ripped hearts I wouldn’t expect much coherence with mirror and their magic either.
What if the mirror was the whole reason she captured Kai in this version of the story? He had two pieces of the mirror in him.
Interesting idea. Whoever the Kai here would be.
Putting here as well some thoughts I had concerning Snow Queen and mirrors in another topic.
What the Snow Queen said about mirrors and the question, why she is gathering mirror pieces, reminded me of an image from a Star Trek Next Generation episode (yeah, the miraculous ways minds can work), one of its best episodes actually, called Frame of Mind. In short: Will Riker, First Officer of the starship Enterprise D, kinda believes for a while to be a patient in a psychiatric ward, struggling with delusions and with his identity. There is a scene where fake, imagined worlds around him shatter like a mirror. Not exactly a new image, shattered mirror, but found it used in that TGN episode in one of the best visual ways.
Shattered mirrors are a useful image for shattered identities, shattered minds, mirrors are reflecting our persona. So, shattered mirror -> shattered mind / identity -> part of our identity is to be recognized by other people as ourselves -> so Snow Queens identity sort of shattered and lost but less because she isn’t recognizing herself but because other aren’t recognizing her, not remembering her? To actually get a loving family you need to be remembered, recognized, visible (!). So she is trying to put herself together maybe, finding the right pieces she thinks she needs to overcome the curse of being forgotten by people?Just fractured ideas at this point though.
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The price is that anyone that has ever loved the Snow Queen will never remember her.
That would mean Colette and the the Snow Queen were in love? But why doesn’t Belle remember a thing?
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LILY AND EMMA….. I JUST LOVE THEM >.< It was so heartwrenching watching Lily tear up as Emma walked away. I GOT MEGA FEELZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really hope she comes back and if they have emma become romantic with her, I would totes be down for that ship. Gotta think of a ship name… LilySwan? SwanLily? idk
Maybe SwanStar?
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