[Myril]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

Spoiler TV have released a small synopsis for Episode 2×10, which airs on ABC on the 6th January.

2×10 – The Cricket Game
When Regina is accused of murdering a beloved fairytale character, Emma thinks she is innocent; Prince Charming and Snow White plan the evil queen’s execution.http://www.spoilertv.com/2012/12/once-upon-time-episode-210-cricket-game_12.html

I was really hoping beyond hope that Archie wouldn’t die, but it doesn’t sound good. 😕 There’s still that chance that he’s not actually dead, but Cora rips out his heart and commands him to play dead. It could part of Cora’s evil plan to turn the town against Regina, forcing Regina into her mother’s arms.

Would not give up on Archie yet, or assume that Archie is the character Regina is accused of murdering.

This promises some interesting dynamic in the charmed family (charming family, snowcharm family, whatever).

[Myril]

Looks like killing off Sheriff Graham on the show traumatized a lot of people for the rest of their (OUaT) lives. Maybe should launch a virtual therapy group. 😉

That is interesting about the dart game cricket. But, btw, the term hat-trick is used in many sports, it is said to come from the bat-and-ball game cricket.

Think whatever cricket version the writers thought of, we should expect that there will some sort of game or match go on (plenty of players, teams in town) – and a good guess is that Archie is right in the middle of it. Stating just the obvious. 😛

Archie comes with some baggage. He became a cricket and the conscience because he felt guilty. Remember, he is responsible, that Geppetto lost his parents. He knew Rumple, his parents had dealings with him. Jiminey didn’t manage to leave his awful parents on his own and asked Rumple for a way to get free of them. The potion he got though was later switched by Archies’s father, and so instead Geppetto’s parents were turned into wooden puppets (and those can be found in Mr. Gold’s shop). Maybe Hook or Cora get to him because of all that, appealing to Archie’s still existing guilty feelings. Not to mention he is probably the only one trying to give Regina a real chance – not least because Archie believes in redemption for his own good. Archie might try to mediate and then make things only worse for everybody.

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[Myril]

Think the Blue Fairy is the least likely person Hook would team up with, but that is more of a gut feeling than based on reason at the moment. He might try to manipulate her but the Blue Fairy is no Tinkerbell, so he will fail with that.

@PriceofMagic wrote:

Blue Fairy is full of self righteousness. She seemingly ignored the plight of kids being sent to fight in the ogre wars yet involved herself in the situation between Bae and Rumple, causing them to be separated and starting Rumple’s quest to be reunited with his son.Blue Fairy may have wanted to rid Fairytale land of the Dark one but her meddling made the situation worse.

So, the Blue Fairy does wrong when she doesn’t get involved, but when she is asked to do something, then she does wrong because she does meddle with things, making it only worse. Whatever she does, that way she never can do right. Wouldn’t call that self-righteous, but doing right is more complicate than we sometimes wish for. Or in other words: there is no fairy who can do things for anyone right, you have to do it on your own. All they can offer is maybe a little help – but it’s still up to you, what you make of it.

Don’t think, Blue Fairy wanted to get rid of the Dark One, had some big scheme going on for that. She reacted to the plead of a child to help him to get his father back. And we learned, the only way to release someone from the grip of the Dark One is that someone kills the person, taking over his or her position. So, what should have the Blue Fairy done in your opinion? She tried the best she could. She couldn’t control, that Rumple was too scared to give up magic, power and follow his son. There was no huge conspiracy at work.

And by the way I think Rumple has no big plan either, but he has a goal: to find his son no matter what – he is obsessive about it. There is no well thought out big plan, he plans and improvises on the go. I highly doubt that he has any ability to see the future. It might have looked like, but think now, he got information by someone else, he himself doesn’t see what’s coming. Like a chessplayer though he knows the field, the possibilities of movements of most involved (human behavior can be predictable), and thus plans some steps ahead – but not always things turn out exactly how he planned it.

Of course the trap didn’t make sense for Rumple, Rumple didn’t plan that trap, he didn’t know it would happen. I doubt he had any good plan for the whole situation, he just knew he better tries to keep Cora away from SB, because she very well will mess up whatever he is at the moment planning about how to find a way to find his son while being still confined to SB. Rumple hardly cares about the Blue Fairy being on his side, he hates the fairies, and doubt that has changed. What sense did it make for him to take the power of the diamonds and use it up for stopping Cora? I bet he would have loved to use that power for something to help him find his son, that his what drives him. But unfortunately the threat of Cora came up, so he had to waste it for that.

What reason should the Blue Fairy have to team up with Hook? Again, I don’t see her having some big secret scheme running against the Dark One or whoever, or for taking over the world, or maybe bringing magic finally to our world (because we could need some magic). Would she do it for revenge? Doubt that as well. Don’t think that for the Blue Fairy it’s about liking or disliking someone, if anything it might be about stopping Rumple from doing even more harm than he has already done to many people.

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[Myril]

@fairy dust wrote:

Many clues about the Mystery Man are embedded in the Leroy character. I think it is very possible that Emma’s Neal is a janitor/caretaker or some other similar position that gives him access to very valuable things. I think he is involved in some type of high dollar theft/fencing of either diamonds/jewelry/or art.

Before Neal met Emma he worked as janitor in Phoenix. That was when he stole some watches. And wouldn’t be too surprised if he hasn’t changed that much and is still in some way in that business, janitor and theft as well.

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[Myril]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

The fact that Jefferson said there are many worlds, all with their own rules, some with magic and some without like this one we’re living in, solidifies my point. FTL has magic whereas our world did not any magic until Mr. Gold brought magic here. Also, each world has its own rules, and not just in a metaphysical sense; each world has its own laws, and our world is governed by phsycial laws whereas magic is what powers/governs FTL. Also, Jefferson makes it sound like these worlds are in parallel dimensions in the way that they “touch one another, pressing up in a long line of lands.”

Have to clear something up, about why I said it’s more in a metaphysical sense. Metaphysics include physics, nature, but it goes beyond. It’s as much about how we perceive, experience and approach our world(s), what we believe it is powered by (to use the phrasing of the Blue Fairy). In other words,think it’s of little importance if their lights (if understood as sun, moon and alike) in FTL are thought to be powered by fairy dust or are powered by fairy dust, while our lights (sun) works with nuclear fusion, or at least we are convinced we have figured out with science, that this is how our sun works.

But I agree, there is enough prove in the episodes to be sure, there is more than one world. And the quote shows, the writers are using the land and world synonym in this context.

@Gypsy wrote:

Slurpeez –
And fairy dust seems to have the power to change the rules of any given world….look what happened when some fairy dust found it’s way to a dwarf egg…dwarfs don’t fall in love… but Dreamy/Grumpy did 🙂

It changed Dreamy / Grumpy, didn’t change the rule in general. Or maybe it did, indirectly. Or to phrase it differently: that dwarfs don’t fall in love was a rule not a fact (natural law) of the Fairy Tale world. It was something everybody was convinced to be true, but it never was true, it just never had happened before (or no one remembered it did). Admittedly, never liked the notion, that the fairy dust made Dreamy dream, as if dwarfs doesn’t have the ability to dream at all (it makes them look like a kind of biological robots of FTL, only programmed to work and work and work), but they somehow had to make a connection to Nova.

Fairy dust might power FTL but is not all powerful.

Lancelot: It’s poisoned.(about the arrow which wounded Ruth, Charming’s mother)
Prince Charming: Then we find an antidote.
Snow White: With the fairies. They can help us.
Lancelot: No. I’m afraid this is going to take something stronger than fairy dust.

Of course, Lancelot is not as a reliable source as Blue Fairy, might not know that much about the basics of magic, but think fairy dust has some limits.

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[Myril]

@Midnight Dreary wrote:

I love them all! I love how the Grimm fairytales in particular were actually grim! They were cautionary tales for children and they were presented in such a dark and horrific way. Those stories were the thing that taught me to never talk to strangers. Sorry mommy. 😆

Considering the Grimm Brothers mitigated the tales themselves (there are for example differences between the first published and later versions), it’s interesting, how dark and horrific we find even those tuned down version of the Grimm Brothers, now after having been influenced by the fluffy Disney versions. Grimm’s tales were more like horror tales, weren’t they – and we love angst, don’t we. Not always had the maybe wished for educational effect though. 🙄

my favorite fairy tales (yup, more than one, but there are plenty of tales to choose from)

Little Red Riding Hood – although somehow I always had a very different version of it in mind, one where Red was the hero, the wolf a nice guy on the run and the huntsman was the bad guy. So my happy ending was more like, Red and the wolf escaping with the help of some tough grandma into the woods and living there happily ever after. 😈

Of Grimm’s Fairy Tales besides Little Red Riding Hood (although my version of it) my favorites are the Town Musicians of Bremen (just imagine this unlikely band of a donkey, a dog, a cat and a rooster, what a fun group) and Rumpelstiltskin (picturing Rumpelstiltskin getting all worked up and toring himself apart made me always giggle as kid, some weird humour)

Not a classical fairy tale, but what did I know about the difference as kid … Peter and the Wolf by Prokofiev. Had a great illustration of it (white on black, stunning) and loved to hear the music – somehow made me particular love oboes (the poor duck)and clarinets (had a thing for the cat being bit ambivalent character) as instruments. Yup, there is a certain pattern, having a thing for wolves. Thankfully the wolf wasn’t killed in this tale. But it’s not all about wolves.

Then I love the often not so happy ending tales of Hans Christian Andersen. Most notably The Little Match Girl (what a tragic story about loss and hope), The Little Mermaid (another tragic ending, different from what Disney made of it), The Snow Queen and The Ugly Duckling (both with happy endings, there you go). Not to forget The Emporer’s New Clothes – hilarious and so true.

And then there is the tale The Cold Heart by Wilhelm Hauff. (One part of the story is an evil guy offering wealth in exchange for the warm, living, feeling heart, giving a heart of stone instead. There is a scene, where he shows the protagonist of the story, Peter, his collections of hearts in glasses on shelves.) Creepy story, but with happy ending.

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[Myril]

Hi Ho! Wait, wrong character type. Uhm, maybe should welcome you with a wolfish hoooooowl. Not so good with pirate greetings 😉

Welcome Sarah! 😀

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[Myril]

Hi EIreland, and welcome!

It’s easier to like an actor or actress in a movie or TV show we like, and playing a character we like 😉 But might speak for the acting talent of that actress / actor even, when they can leave such different kind of impressions.

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[Myril]

@slurpeez108 wrote:

Magic wasn’t in our world until Mr. Gold used the potion of true love to bring it here.
1. Magic from fairy dust is what powers and gives light to fairy-tale land, not our world. The Blue Fairy, who is the Blue Star, uses magic to powers that world. What powers and gives light to our our world is the sun, also a star, but in the form of nuclear fusion rather than magic. Different worlds have different basic principles. For all we know, FTL isn’t even in the same universe. It could be a parallel dimension in another universe.

Don’t quite agree with this point, not with the sun powering our world while FTL is powered by fairydust. They very well have a sun and moon in FTL too, don’t think that powering the world was meant in that kind of physical way, more in a metaphysical sense. After all it’s fairy tale, fantasy, not science fiction (although the lines between the genres are somewhat blurred in general)

@slurpeez108 wrote:

2. Emma and Pinocchio came through a magic wardrobe which was powerful enough to create a portal from the EF to our world. This does’t mean the tree in our world was magic to start with; it’s just where the magical portal from the EF opened up.
3. Magic was not indigenous to our world before the curse. It was the dark curse, which originated in the EF, that created Stroybrooke and brought over all of the cursed inhabitants, frozen in time, to Maine.
4. Jefferson’s hat couldn’t transport Rumplestiltskin to our world because there was no magic in it. It is a limitation of the hat that it must have magic on both openings to work. Regina said in 1×21 the only magic in this world was the magic she brought over from the EF. The only reason Regina could use Jefferson’s hat to grab the poisoned apple is because she used up the only magic she had left from her enchanted ring with Daniel’s picture. That magic was from the EF not our world.
5. True love did not have magical properties in our world before Rumple brought magic. We saw MM and David kiss and nothing happened. Only Emma, who is True Love Incarnate, was able to break the dark curse, which originated in the EF. Only Emma had the power to break the curse, because she is magic and she isn’t from our world. She was born in the EF and then came here via en enchanted wardrobe.

Agree with these points. And right, forget what Regina said, when they used the hat, thanks for reminding.

Possible, that ,after Mr. Gold brought some magic to Storybrook, any FTL kind magic is nevertheless confined to Storybrook, as a sort of FTL bubble in our world. So in our world there might be still no magic of that kind working, only in Storybrook. Think, that is very likely, the barriere is taking away the FTL identity of a person, and that might include their magic abilities, not just their knowledge of it (would be interesting what happens then to Emma, when crossing the line)

@Gypsy wrote:

Nova says to Dreamy/Grumpy “….As Fairies, we get to spend very little time in YOUR world…”

That tells me, Fairies aren’t from the EF, so, when BF says “….powers the WORLD…” she is not speaking of just the EF.

Beg to differ. The lives of fairies and dwarfes couldn’t be more different, and I think that was what Nova meant in that moment. Fairies have their duties and keep pretty much to themselves as dwarfs seem to do as well. While Dwarfs spend most of their lives working in mines, in the earth so to speak, fairies are beings of air, living in some place in the sky maybe (could get that impression in the episode). Possible, that fairies are living in a different world than the other FTL character, other world than where the Enchanted Forest is, but that still doesn’t make it impossible for our world to be a world without magic. Neither Nova nor Blue Fairy used world and land in plural – so, could be understood that everything is in one world (what though would contradict your point here with what Nova said to Dreamy/Grumpy) or that they’re talking just about the world they are living in, so it’s more likely they are actually talking of the Enchanted Forest, Fairy Tale Land when saying, magic powers the world. Either way, as I see it’s not an argument for magic existing in every world.

There is more than one magical realm, that much was said, and you can only move between them by finding some kind of portal between these worlds, the beans create such portals, the hat is a portal, mirrors can be. That in all of these worlds magic exist, doesn’t has to mean, they are all powered by it, particular not if you look at it more in a metaphysical way, as what is the fundamental nature of a world (Is magic the fundamental nature of Wonderland? Of Neverland?). And nature in this view means, what basically drives the world and the beings in the world, what is its essence. Not to mention it means, there could be worlds without magic.

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[Myril]

@Gypsy wrote:

In “The Return” the Blue Fairy tells Baelfire that the magic bean will take him to a world without magic.

In “Dreamy” :
The BF tells Nova “Fairy Dust is the most precious substance in all the land. It’s magic is what powers the world.”

Bossy tells Dreamy/Grumpy “We mine the diamonds that get crushed into dust that gives light to the world.”

So, if Fairy Dust powers the ‘world’ and gives light to the ‘world’ – there is no ‘world without magic’.
Not even ours
.
In our world, a magic portal exists, that allowed 2 characters from FTL to magically enter ‘our world’.
A town full of Storybook characters -who haven’t aged because time was frozen for 28 years – exists in ‘our world’.

Bae did not go to a world without magic…the BF lied, yet again.
Bae (Neal ?) could very likely be Peter Pan.

Are we sure by now, that Bae went to our world with the bean? But think it’s save to say, that Neverland is not a land without magic, never has been without magic. So, if the Blue Fairy spoke the truth, Bae couldn’t have gone first to Neverland, unless she didn’t know that there was magic, or she did lie about it. The same might be true for the version, that Bae went to our world first (and then from there maybe somehow to Neverland, to explain why he survived some time and eventually didn’t age, if he is who many think he is)

I agree, that not even our world was without any magic before Rumple brought “officially” magic to Storybrook, mostly because of that Storybrook was frozen in time for 28 years – how else should that be explained. Additionally, Rumple said in “The Doctor” (2×05), that Jefferson’s hat transports only between magical realms. If that was true, meant, that Regina couldn’t have gotten the apple from FTL to our world through tim without our world then having at least a bit of magic, and the hat might have not worked at all otherwise. Or it wasn’t true what Rumple said, or the abilities of the hat changed with the curse.

Now I think it is possible, that the Blue Fairy didn’t lie. For one, maybe she didn’t know, it just might have looked like there was no magic in our world (assuming Bae was sent here). But my theory is, that here in our world indeed at that time there was no magic like any kind of magic known in the magical worlds. Not even true love sparked the magic it could spark in FTL and maybe in other worlds. But with the dark curse magic found it’s way into our world too.

The portal was opened after Rumple brought magic to Storybrook, so it’s not an indication for our world always having been with magic.

Concerning the fairy dust. So far I have the impression, that the term world, land and realm are use mostly synomym. It’s not one big world including all lands the Blue Fairy was probably talking of, but one of the worlds, one of the magical realms, the Fairy Tale Land, Enchanted Forest. At least so far I am assuming that there is more than one world, even if it might be on the same spot in space (uhm, we could start to discuss theories of time and dimensions, but that is another topic). So what I think she meant was, that the fairy dust powers the world they, the Fairy, dwarfs etc. were living in. And Bossy talking about giving light to the world I took more as contrast to dark as in dark magic, so meaning good magic, or good things, hope. Not saying that there is basically something like plain good and plain evil magic though, but it might look like there is.

@Gypsy – the tree is an argument. But could be possible that it worked, because the Dark Curse was already forming a bridge between the two worlds, EQ had set it in motion, the clouds of the curse were on the way to engulf the land, when Pinocchio and a couple of minutes later Emma were set in the wardrobe. After all the Blue Fairy said only something about that the tree would ward off any curse, protect, there was no talk about it being a portal at that point. ( but it’s just a theory of mine)

Bear with me, I’m working on sorting some more thoughts about magic in OUaT. What it might be, are there different forms of magic, what magic has been shown so far, and more thoughts. There are a couple of threads on the board here discussing it, from sometimes different angles. Not to mention it’s a good reason to rewatch some episodes (How to fill a holiday break 101)

@medchen – imagination can be magical. So could call it a form of magic.

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