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What is a happy ending? For the rest of life, for the moment, regarding a certain situation or regarding all wishes a person has for their lives? What makes a happy ending? And as @PriceofMagic brings up, can everyone have a happy ending?
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I really want to see Emma and Regina talk, I want Regina to tell Emma everything that she has been through, about Daniel and Leopold and I want Emma to see how much Regina is broken and how much she’s changed
I would like Regina in such a talk as much to acknowledge to Emma, that she was responsible (as much as was Rumple) that Emma didn’t grew up with loving parents. I would like Regina to admit, that she probably even would have killed her as toddler, if she could have, that she tried to kill Emma’s parents couple of times and nearly succeeded with Snow if not for the little magic trick Snow had at hands. I want Regina to confess to Emma that she did kill Graham. I want Regina to acknowledge how much she helped to make Emma a broken person. As Regina made a lot of people suffer. If Regina is a changed person, she should be able to acknowledge, that she has done terrible things, that she did wrong, and to regret she did.
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I would love if we had a dark princess at first….someone who starts out as a villain. Like cursed with wickedness or something, and the only way the curse would be broken is by of course the traditional true love.
That is your wish for it, but I am with @TheWatcher here, no traditional true love story, no romance. People don’t need a crush, some guy or girl to fall for, not even family bonds, to realize, what they’re doing is wrong, to want to change, and I would really like to see that.
Neither do I think of a “reason” for her evilness as being shunned by people for being different, or because of some tragic childhood, that is what qualifies as sob story for me. I am so done with that thanks to OUaT. It would be quite a challenge to create a wicked character that doesn’t trigger the usual empathy reasons and still is perceived with some sympathy, but that is the point for me, to make something different work.
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If only Princess Fiona were Disney
Yup, was thinking of Fiona. I honestly though find she looks beautiful as ogre.
Find it annoying, that in the animated world Disney has a tendency to infantilize particular the young women they have as lead, with big eyes being pretty much out of any facial proportions. The guys never have such huge eyes. I love beautiful eyes but it’s so overdone.
Was thinking bit more about the evil princess. Why would she do wicked or evil things, without giving her too much of a sob story, and what could change her mind? Pondering ideas.
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You’re right, @Keb, each princess has her own story. But somehow it gets boiled down to pretty girl gets her pretty guy most of the times. I could have done very well without the last minutes of Mulan for example. And I liked that Brave didn’t go there at all, and Frozen at least made it not the main point at the end. But aside that there still is plenty of room for variety in what makes a happy ending, there is always room for more diversity regarding characters, and even more so lead characters. It would be great to have “princesses” (and “princes”) of all shapes and sizes and colors and more.
I like your ideas, @TheWatcher .
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If you’re feeling disappointed in a show, the negative aspects seem to stick out more, whereas when you’re enjoying a show, you tend to overlook its flaws unless they’re really obvious. The body switching CGI was just horrible.
Sure, one can wear “black” glasses, but also one can wear pink glasses and see even things that are critical in softening light or not see them at all. It goes both ways. I am not sorry for being probably a pain in the behind by now, pointing out that the show as problems (and I am not even missing Neal neither mourning him).
And wish it were just some bad CGI as flaws. The CGI and special effects in most TV shows make me at best laugh, often enough cringe, but even big screen is not that much better at times. The question in matters of CGI and special effects is to me more, was it something necessary for the story or just show off, I don’t expect perfection, even less if is is done for the story. I do like a good visual but I don’t watch shows/film for CGI parade. See and notice plenty of bad CGI on small and big screen regardless if I liked or disliked the show or movie. That is not the point, and think I am not the only having bigger issues with the show than such flawed minor details.
Thanks for the link, @MatthewPaul, interesting view in that article. There is more I would comment on but will keep it to the relationship related stuff here:
1. Don’t have affairs. We get that Captain Hook is a swaggering sex-bomb who could woo any woman, so it makes sense on a hormonal level for Milah to ditch Rumple for the pirate. But her decision not only got her killed but sent her beloved down the evil path and caused her hubby to become the Dark One. For the sake of mankind, keep it monogamous people.
Not the lesson I see in that, reading it this way misses the point even IMO. Monogamy is no guarantee that people are honest with each other – but if there is something in Milah’s and Rumple’s story I think it is: Be honest with yourself and with others and particular your partner(s), friends, family. And accept that not every relationship works out staying together, sometimes it might be better for all involved to part in time.
Aside that there is a very different message in it, Milah was not the least bit responsible for Rumpel turning Dark One, he likely would have done so even if she’d stayed with him, after all he did it to protect Bae from being made a soldier – and the Ogre war was sure raging regardless what Milah did. But interesting to see how Milah is in the eyes of some responsible for what her husband became, and seen as solely responsible for the failure of their marriage. Pin the scarlet letter on Milah and shame the witch, she got herself killed and might have even deserved it. That is victim blaming in the worst form. Not saying what Milah did was right, but neither was what Rumple did, and meaning not just what he did in the end to her. But while Milah left him alone with his son but giving him a chance to still find a happy life, Rumple murdered his wife. Thanks for repeating the centuries old view, that women are the ones messing things up, are the original sinners (maybe you remember that thing that allegedly happened in paradise). That is such an empowerment of women. Not.
2. Family matters. In the pilot episode, Emma had the choice between staying in Storybrooke to be near Henry (and suss out the weird stuff happening in town) or leaving. She chose Henry, which set off a chain of events culminating in her reunion with her parents. You might think your job or independence is the most important thing but it’s not; your family is.
Just let forget that leaving Storybrooke was for Emma not a matter of job or independence but a matter of unresolved emotions. Why care. Let us reduce it to a formalistic view and tell women their family is the most important thing in their lives. Let’s stick with the message already told for long on screen and elsewhere: stay at home, with your family, women (and know where your place is), you can’t have it all. No, don’t think that is the message in the show, but a message one could read out of that interpretation. Family is important, no beef there, though would family not limit to traditional definitions ( as in parents, children, siblings, blood related or adopted, here are other possibilities), but as important is to be yourself and have your own worth in yourself. For some the tool for that is a job. And what independence means is a freedom to decide and it means to be respected, it means to be and to be seen as a person on your very own right and not be reduced and limited to be an appendix of your spouse, family, clan, nation, or whatever. That doesn’t mean you have to be alone and don’t care and feel no responsibilities for others. You are of less good use for your family if you stay with them out of some felt obligation. Your family is really important to you if you stay without feeling any obliged to, when you are an independent person with the freedom to decide and you decide to stay because you care – what Emma did for Henry.
3. You don’t need a man to save you. Just in case Katniss and Hermione Granger haven’t already beat this into your skull, take a look at Mulan and Belle. They use their smarts and skills to take care of business, like rescuing princes and wizards. So pick up a bow or sword or book and be the heroine, not the damsel.
Right, no woman needs a man to save her. We can do everything on our own. Sometimes the sword is the tool and sometimes a book or a quill is the right thing. And different from what plenty of men hero movies have told for decades, it’s absolutely okay not to do it all alone but as a team, you don’t need to be a lonesome cowboy (cowgirl) to be cool. It’s good to have friends. To find the true love is not all that there is in life. And your true love is for sure not the only person able to help you with things.
4. Wait for your true love. Thank you Cora for this important lesson. Just because he says he’s a prince and he looks good in the dim lighting of a bar, doesn’t mean you should hook up with him. You might miss out on a happy marriage to a real prince and instead end up giving birth to a future psycho witch. Or whatever.
No, don’t wait for your true love. He or she might pass you, because you’ve looked so hard around all time, that you missed seeing the right person walked just by. And even if you did see the right person, it still takes effort and work to build true love. True love is no apple falling into your lab to consume, it’s a never ending process. See Snow and David. But right, the charming guy courting you is not always the right guy, no matter if you’re looking for true love or just for a comfortable life with riches. Don’t wait for a white knight to fulfill your dreams, take care of them yourself before you turn you into a bitter and then evil doing person.
5. No relationship is perfect. Even when you have found your True Love, being together still takes work. Even the practically perfect Charmings get into marital spats. You’re not going to agree or get along with your significant other all the time, and that’s good. If you are, you’re doing it wrong.
See, I agree. But you might never come into the dilemma to wonder, what’s going on after you find your true love (or think that is the one person), if you never in the first place believed, that true love is something you only have to find and all will be good, but knew it is something you have to build an can build with someone.
6. Revenge isn’t worth it. We’ve all been there. Some snooty girl steals your man or your job. Maybe someone insults or hurts you. Naturally you want to even the score but according to Once, this never works out the way we want. Remember how Cora wanted vengeance so bad she ripped out her own heart, making her incapable of loving her daughter? Yeah, don’t do that.
If you really can’t help it and want to take revenge or look for some feeling of justice, then at least turn to the people, who actually messed up your life, and not bully some scapegoat. Taking it out on the scapegoat is a sure way to let yourself be turned into a tool, only ensuring that the wrong people get their will and keep their power.
8. Your love can “fix” men. This would fall in the “less realistic” category but there’s no denying Once has this message at its core. As much as we love Rumple, Hook, Neal, and every other “redeemed” OUAT guy with a shady past, don’t go assuming you can change your man. Not everyone has a heart of gold buried beneath their darkness.
I don’t want to fix anyone nor do I even think we could. At best we can strive to support people to heal themselves, but we can’t do that for them. But do I get that right, that this lesson is seen in the show but judged as not so realistic? Would agree on that, but not just as truth for women about men, it’s a general truth. After all shouldn’t forget the other main regular villain (or greyish villhero) Regina in the picture. Love doesn’t conquer all.
9. Life is not a fairytale. Considering Once is a run on Disney-owned ABC, you would think there would be a lot more happy endings. In reality, the show reminds us time again, whether you’re a princess, a witch, or an orphan, happiness isn’t guaranteed and sometimes life is rotten. Even so, in life, like on OUAT, everything really does happen for a reason, and you never know when things are going to take a turn for the better.
Kinda agree. But some things don’t happen for a reason, they just happen, though we can give what follows meaning. No, there is never any guarantee for anything, not for the evil to go to hell nor for the good to get a happy ending. Not even in fairy tales, they all have to do things and succeed on their quest to get their happy ending, which not always is reduced to being a romance (we sometimes skip to the happy ending and overlook the effort it takes). Fairy tales are not even just princess is saved by prince stories and they get happily married ever after, a lot of fairy tales are about other things, and getting the princess is often enough only the extra award in the end, not the story or the core of the story.
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Might have to wait a bit for that long sneak peek. The info was part of an announcement published on a site already on Thursday, promotion for the Watch App by ABC, and it’s just one of the appetizers they talk of to get people to use it. The sneak peek for OUaT was so far not accessible for anyone as it seems. Would expect it not to be before tonight’s prem party, maybe with it or right after it or likely tomorrow. So check again Monday 😉
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I think Labyrinth would be an interesting addition on Once Upon a Time. It’s such a fun movie. I mean, in the EF, you have trolls and giants, why not have a goblin king? And Sarah could easily relate to Emma because Emma thought the whole concept that these people were fairytale characters were odd in season one. I’d like to see Adam and Eddy’s take on that story.
Oh please, keep them away from one of my favorite fantasy movies. Aside of The Dark Crystal. Both directed by Jim Henson. Though the stories of the movies I don’t find even that exceptional or intriguing, but the work with the puppets and cinematography is great. I grew up with Augsburger Puppenkiste and loved marionette theater (they did some productions as well for TV, including a number of fairy tales) .
But couldn’t agree more with Georgina Haig, definitely good to watch.
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I think it might be a good idea to put a moratorium on this thread until the season starts. Then, we’ll have more concrete stuff to work with.
If most think so. I think we have 66 episodes of material. Of course the new season will add more to it, but it’s already plenty.
Whether or not Adam and Eddy have an answer to my question or the questions we raised here, I don’t know. I hope they have some understanding of a theme and message about love on their show. *shrug*
No, they don’t have to answer our questions. I care even little, what their intention or message might be (doubt they have any aside the big vague hope keyword), or not more than what people, audience are seeing in the show. Can be the same, can be very different. The show makers have some influence on what the audience sees and understand but it’s not all their making.
I just think there are a lot of quite screwed images about love visible on this show wrapped into some fluffy sentiment about true love. As I think the show has an old-fashioned and illusionary take on love.
edit: A little additional food for thoughts. New research: It hurts your relationship to think “we were made for each other“
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@callmeLola Good to know I was not the only one thinking of Cinderella.
@WickedRegal I agree that Cinderella’s connection is unlikely, but think these dumb spoiler fairies don’t think so. Or is there any other popular fairy tale movie with these keywords: three – sisters – ball? They like to throw keywords at fans, creates attention, gets clicks, brings ad-revenue. Who cares that Cinderella already has been done on OUaT.We have Belle’s mother in episode 6 – and I know Belle fans would be madly happy if we get two consecutive episodes with huge Belle background / story / connection, but I doubt that is what we will get. So don’t think the Belle connection makes that much sense either.
@obisgirl headlines are leading 😉 And in the excitement of spoilers we often rush to ideas.Frozen power is genetic. But then, how come Anna doesn’t have it?
No headaches there, it very much depends. Siblings don’t inherit always all features. Look at the difference in hair and eye color possible, different build, one has a heritable sickness, the other not. Genetics is a lot more complex. If you would meet my sister and me you would probably not guess at first we’re sisters at all, maybe after a time when seeing us together.
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