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Ok, can I just address this in meta, rather than specifically in relation to ship allegiance? It seems to me that CS are currently the majority of the hard-core vocal fans, yes? Perhaps even the majority of the show’s viewership? There’s probably a reason for this that has to do with self-selection — the people who have stuck with the show are likely the ones who either enjoy CS, or at least don’t object to it enough to drop the show, or who are simply casual viewers less likely to participate on social media. Then there’s a smaller section of the fandom who are watching the show for other reasons, and who are not fans of CS.
Lets say that CS is in fact the majority of OUAT’s fandom — this is indeed what @Michael seems to suggest every time s/he posts. Lets also say that all things considered, they are the population for whom OUAT/ABC caters — I often see opinions, both among pro and anti CS that OUAT is now Once Upon a Hook. So, in other words, we could say that the CS fandom is currently the primary beneficiary of the OUAT product (in terms of screen time for their favs, satisfying story lines, attention and promo work etc).
Then would it not be potentially problematic that the representatives of a majority population within a larger whole who also happen to be the ones who benefit the most (get the most pleasure) from the OUAT “commons” would interpret the opinions of the minority subset as either (a) oppression against them, (b) as dissent that must be disciplined or squashed or (c) fair game for ad hominem attacks? I get that people don’t generally play nice in this fandom, that much is obvious, even from the actors’ recent commentary. But there’s something pretty totalitarian to the impulse to demand adulation for your ship no matter where you go. I’m not saying that’s everyone, and I’m not saying that CSers are the only ones (I hear SQ was bad too). I’m saying that if one is a card-carrying anti-CSers or anti-Hook, I have a hard time imagining that being told to “fall in line” so that other CSers, who are admittedly the majority, could be comfortable is going to sway anyone — for very obvious social reasons that I hope I don’t need to explain.
Not to mention that the complaints that this forum excludes or chases off CS fans by being critical of CS is a pretty lowball move that pins the people who run it and mod it, and who don’t necessarily share the opinion of its denizens, against the people who use it routinely. Not only does it completely homogenize the users who are not vociferously pro-CS as all ‘antis,’ but I find it especially ironic in light of the simultaneous claims that most of the rest of social media is dominated by CS. I mean, do you see how that sounds?
[adrotate group="5"]I mean…how does that happen and no one ever mentions it.
Your questions are pointless.
Possibly not the point of the article but are Rumple and Belle even in this episode?
Has anyone here seen California Solo? 🙂 Seems like it’d be a waste not to have RC have some kind of musical number.
Liked:
Bickering bridezilla Charmings are hilarious.
Rumbelle actually working together. And Belle actually had something to say/do, even if it was mostly babysitting it was still used to develop her character.
Henry being included in a way that’s not just looming in the background. Although why does the pen suddenly glow and print rather than write cursive? I suppose it’s gone digital.
Mixed/Disliked
Zelena’s flashbacks to Oz were by and large unnecessary (their only point being to deliver the MacGuffin by convenient green tornado I suppose). But the way Zelena story played out makes me think of a theory (below).
BF’s speech affectations (is it meant to be an accent?) annoys me to absolutely no end. I don’t understand what it’s supposed to do or be. Otherwise, she’s a perfectly menacing villain, but the delivery is distracting.
Regina was a bit harsh sending Zelena back to Oz — as if she had never tried and failed (or made things worse).
That line “we will take care of her, she is one of us” about Robyn. Ah, because if she weren’t one of you, you’d dump an infant by the side of the road and walk away? Yes, writers, we already know that the heroes are as cliquish as your worst American high school stereotype, but that’s just silly. I suppose the alternative is that the poor child would end up with the fairies, and we know how that ends. Also, where’s baby Neil again?
Theory:
I wonder if the symbolic aspect of the final battle is going to take the model they’ve introduced with Zelena, and apply it to each main character: where they have to choose between two core contradictory drives that define that character. For Zelena, it was always the desire to be special/stand out/be better vs the desire to belong, to have a family. Zelena’s relationship with Hades was the only one where the two drives were brought together in a non-antagonistic way. And here she was presented with the choice between magic and family — but I think magic here is not a stand-in for power (as it would be with Rumple) but a stand-in for difference, uniqueness (as in, would one give up the one talent that defines their identity for the sake of family?) So if this is now a model for the final battle, what would it be for each character?
. They deliberately wrote Hook and Regina’s relationship that way in order to create more conflicts in the fandom
I think you’re giving them too much credit. Most of the time, I think A&E and the rest of the writing team come of with their dialogues, plot lines, and ideas the night before the deadline, while drunk. And the reason they outsource explanatory labor to the cast is that they themselves have zero clue about what they’re doing or why they’re doing it. The problem is that dislike between the characters should not translate into fandom flamewars, but of course it does because the OUAT fandom seems to be a cesspool of toxic sludge.
And on that note, based on the interview, Lana and Sean seem like lovely people, and I hope many great projects come their way in the future.
So, for what’s it worth, I don’t hate Hook this season. For me, the core of the problem is CS, and not because I necessarily mind the pairing in the abstract, but because it was always set up from the beginning that Hook’s is entirely contingent on him wanting to be with Emma. Change is a hard process — that’s an unfortunate fact of biology, there’s neural hardware to the personalities we develop which means that changing one’s fundamental make-up actually requires the literal rewiring of neural pathways — a long, difficult process full of setbacks that takes years, hard work, support structures, therapy…
So with this in mind, Hook’s change is narratively set-up to feel either insincere, or temporary — potentially reverting the second his feelings for Emma start to fizzle or just even normalize. That’s literally structurally inbuilt into the writing, And it doesn’t help that I do not like the way Emma is being portrayed in the last few seasons — though that might not be a question of CS. But bracketing that part out for now, for CS to work for me in the abstract, the show would have to retcon Hook a bit, for example by doing a flashback insert where they actually dwell into a moment prior to Emma that hints at Hook’s moral ambivalence and willingness to evolve into a new, more positive direction. Then I would be willing to buy that Emma’s actually a catalyst that Hook latches on to in his effort to turn things around for himself. But in the absence of that, I find it hard to buy. Change is difficult. The more they make it seem seamless for Hook, the more suspicious and dismissive I feel about the sincerity or longevity of his redemption.
Speaking of Screwball Ninja, have you seen the wedding dress analysis yet? I thought it was kind of neat and captures some of the surprise at the choice.
Unfortunately that can’t happen because RumBelle don’t get the screen time needed to make such a storyline work.
And more generally, I’m actually surprised the degree to which both Regina and Rumple, and the overall extended family narrative, has really sort of fallen off by the wayside since S5. It started progressively, but now even Regina and Henry are kind of at the periphery of the main plot. It seems that now the only real family that matters is Snowing, Emma, and Hook — everyone else, even Henry, are largely irrelevant. Rumple, who’s putatively at the center of this season’s drama, get the absolute bare minimum of screen time, it seems. I wonder what this has to do with (as in, is this actors’ other commitments or is this the direction of the show).
Is there any way that this is a dream sequence and not the actual wedding? I just can’t picture Emma wearing that.
Incidentally, shouldn’t there be more people we know among the extras? We only see Regina and Henry. Where’s Granny, Grumpy & the dwarves, Archie, Gippeto and all the others who were just there in last episode’s cursed chalice scene?
I love that dress but it’s too princess-y for my taste. I think I always imagined Emma in something a bit more modern. No sleeves, not buttoned up, form fitting (but not exactly mermaid). But fashion is sooooo subjective that they’d never come up with something to appeal to everyone.
I think the dress — or what we see of it — is quite pretty. It’s like the goodie two shoes version of EQ’s various black lace constructions. What I don’t really like is the headdress/hair. It looks very Dark Swan, (and also weirdly pointy?)
The space does look like CGI, but I think the Clock Tower is a good guess — checkered floor though looks like Grannie’s.
Im not saying he would not exist, when i saying like he is now, about gideon story, with neal and if the baby would even be a boy, like i said i always saw a RB baby as a girl , even with the name Rose, that would sort of link beauty and the beast story.
I dunno — I would have liked to see a baby girl RB, I think it part because most of the stories we have except for Emma are about fathers and sons. Robyn and Zelena don’t count because there’s literally nothing to that story beyond originally creating drama for Regina.
But I think the reason Gideon is not “Gidiana” is that he has to function as a foil for Emma, and as such I think they felt like he has to be the opposite gender.
I think Neal would have been protective of Gideon — both in the sense of seeking a connection, and being afraid that Gideon would, like Rumple, get corrupted by dark magic. I don’t see G as a replacement though, in part because I can easily imagine him fitting into a story where Neal is present. I think the show needs a foil for Emma, and that’s G’s role — not a nemesis, mind you, but a foil, someone whose story parallels hers, but diverges in important ways. They tried this with Lily, but it didn’t really work, so it makes sense that integrating the foil into the family structure would be needed.
