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Honestly, I feel Hook shouldn’t have lived past Neverland. He just serves no purpose. Neverland is his story.
Here’s the weird thing about Hook. If they wanted to extend his shelf life and give him a story beyond Neverland, why not do the typical OUAT 2-in-1 and reveal that he’s also another fairy tale character?
I vote for Puss in Boots. He already has the getup.
[adrotate group="5"]I don’t think Rumple will try to kill Emma. I think without the darkness’ influence he’ll have a bit more clarity than he did whilst under the dark curse and won’t necessarily choose the darker path. I agree with Keb that it is all up in the air.
I tend to agree. Here’s a question — do people think the darkness is sentient? Is it “alive” in some ways? Does it have agency? I have a theory that it’s a parasitic organism of sorts, and therefore it’s quite possible that it would significantly modify the behavior of its host to accommodate its own ends (as parasites in the real world do). If it is a parasite, the question becomes what kind? Some parasites tend to completely highjack the host’s nervous system and radically alter behavior (for example, by making the host act in a suicidal way when the parasite reaches a particular point of its developmental cycle). So what if Zoso didn’t “commit suicide by Rumple” because he was sick of being the DO, but because he was spent up and the darkness was looking for a new host? Alternatively, it doesn’t actually want its host to die, but it’s part of an inevitable process, after which point it needs to find a new host to consume.
On the other hand, some parasitic (or sometimes symbiotic) organisms act in more subtle ways. For example certain gut bacteria cause the host to have cravings for sweet foods because they thrive on sugar, and therefore “encourage” the host to modify its diet. If this is the scenario, then Rumple (or whoever the DO is) would theoretically have more say in what they’re able to do. Of course, there would be a powerful reward mechanism to “feed” the darkness — for example, by committing more “dark” acts — but the human host could arguably resist it, similarly to the person who could consciously modify their diet and exclude sugary foods to suppress the gut flora that thrives on glucose.
Again, if the darkness works on a parasitic model, it allows for a couple of convenient explanations:
– the abysmal S4 Rumple OOC — if Rumple was a dying host, it’s no wonder he was spinning out of control by the end
– why Rumple couldn’t “give up” his power or didn’t want to break the curse. That would go against the parasite’s instinct of self-preservation and interests
– why, once freed from Rumple, the darkness didn’t return to him — it’d go out to look for the strongest, most fit organism. What the parameters of that is, I’m not sure, but presumably Regina was a good fit, as was Emma
– why it didn’t just hang out as darkness, outside of a host. It seems that it needs a soul to latch onto.
And by that logic, Rumple would not go after Emma, simply because, if he even survives, of which I am not entirely convinced, he will be able to more clearheadedly weigh the benefits against the advantages of the DO curse. That doesn’t mean he won’t want to have magic — he might. But I doubt he’ll want it through the DO curse . Rumple might be neurotic, and have serious self-esteem issues, but he’s not an idiot.
My point is if Rumple listened to Milah’s concerns in the Crocodile and moved, she wouldn’t have left with Hook. Because if he had, their marriage would have had a chance to be fixed.
I don’t think I read it that way. It felt to me more like the relationship was on the rocks anyway because the two people were profoundly incompatible. Rumple was simply not the guy for Milah. No “quick fixes” — whether traveling, having a baby, or getting a pet or a mortgage 😉 would have mended the relationship. It might have delayed the inevitable, but in the end, they would have ended up miserable together, or would have split up anyway. Hook happened to be Milah’s way out.
I’m willing to bet Rumple and Regina are honestly in their heads like “What are you still doing here Hook?” whenever he just pops up.
You mean…:
Or remember back in S2 when we learned that ABC was pushing for more Hook in scenes? They keep suggesting, “put Hook here. Can you put Hook here? We’d like Hook here.”
Good point. But that wouldn’t preclude the show from actually giving Hook some space to develop as a character, rather than shoehorn him into the heartthrob role. For what it’s worth I thought Hook was an entertaining villain, precisely because he was such a scumbag. But then, it’s like POOF, behold, Fabio.
Bingo. I like Spuffy; I actually shipped them while watching BtVS–even though now, grown up, I recognize that it wasn’t as romantic as my younger self thought.
But this is what I thought was done so brilliantly. Yes, I totally shipped them at the time, but now, older and wiser, I … well, it’s hard not to root for them in some way anyway. Even though the relationship is clearly doomed to fail, there’s still something very touching about it, as twisted and problematic as it is. But Joss Whedon doesn’t tend to shove the big issues under the rug, and maybe that’s what makes it so convincing in the end. Of course, by the time Spuffy happens, Spike has a long history on the show — he’s a complicated character in his own right. Unlike Hook.
The difference between Buffy and Once though is that Buffy had Spike earn his acceptance into the group whereas Once just handed it to Hook on the platter.
That’s exactly right. And also, Spike had relationships with other characters — most particularly Dawn, but also in his own way Xander and Willow. Even with limited screen time, and one or two scenes, they came across as tangible and meaty, with a hint of a world in the background that is alive, with events happening even when they aren’t shown to the audience. By contrast, when it comes to Hook, and CS more broadly, there’s this weird flatness to it. Maybe because Hook’s primary relationship outside of Emma appears to be with Rumple, which at this point has become so repetitive it adds nothing to his character development.
Yep. And if a character has to remain dead in the story for another couple to get together, then that tells you something in and of itself. Doesn’t it? I
See, this is what I’m curious about. I mean sure, Hook became a popular character etc etc, but the decision to pair him off with Emma feels like, by far, the least interesting route the show could have gone. And this made me wonder — was this a ratings-based decision? Apart from Hook’s popularity in and of himself, the way the relationship is being fleshed out is extremely simplistic and deeply unoriginal, up until now. Also, I can’t help but notice that, at least based on my brief and horrified encounter with Tumblr’s OUAT, CSers tend towards the late teen, early twenties age bracket (no offense to anyone here, of course!) It makes me wonder whether A&E and whoever works on the show promotion team decided that they need to actively tap into the YA audience of things like Twilight or The Mortal Instruments franchise ?
Also, there are ways to tell that particular romance that subvert the trope — the relationship between Buffy and Spike comes to mind, in that it starts with almost the same bad boy/good girl premise (similarly, the girl is grieving for her lost love), but then does something very different from the expected stereotype. It’s kind of a heartbreaking dysfunctional relationship, but you still root and grieve for the respective characters. By contrast, CS for all its shiny shininess just leaves me completely unfazed — in no small part because, for all his swagger, Hook somehow manages to be astoundingly humorless and un-self-reflexive.
Wow, @Slurpeez that’s an amazing analysis, and pretty much puts into words everything that’s been bugging me about Hook. Surely, the writers must be aware of all these contradictions? I mean, there’s no way they can possibly be this oblivious. Can they?
About Dark!Emma, TLK and CS… I know they won’t do this, of course, but the whole Darkness plotline makes me think of Ursula LeGuin’s A Wizard of Earthsea, if anyone here has read it. (It’s sort of the ancestor of fantasy YA long before Harry Potter was a twinkle in JK Rowling’s eye). I read it years ago, but the premise, not to be too spoilery, is that Ged, the protagonist is a young wizard who accidentally unleashes a “Shadow” during a ritual gone wrong, and this entity pursues him through much of the book (which is a coming of age story). The way the plot is resolved, however, isn’t what one would expect — [spolier] as the Shadow eventually catches up to Ged, and he is forced into a final confrontation, he realizes it was a part of him all along [/spoiler] — and has these philosophical or maybe cosmological overtones that would work so well with Emma’s Savior/True Love Incarnate etc subplot.
Of course, we probably will get CS TLK, and it’ll be as unsatisfying as we’re all expecting it to be. (But I’m still holding out for the other shoe to drop and Hook revealing his true colors.)
My big hope really is the writers remember this show works best when it is not Once Upon a Woobie Villain, or Once upon a Ship.
I think they’ve come to the conclusion that what they really need is Once Upon a Woobie Villain Ship. Hence, CS.
Very true. Though, it doesn’t take much to get me to see CS as cheap and shallow.
Sigh. You and me both. Then again, badly written romance is badly written.
It’s different situation but the emotion behind is the same: if you’re dying or are going to destroy the world, then I’m going with you. With Emma and Hook it’s horrible and cliche and only serves to make Hook look good and Emma look weak. With Xander and Dark!Willow it was one of the most beautiful things I’ve ever seen.
Totally, but that sort of emotion would only work because of the characters’ incredibly rich history together. Without that depth (and I think CS doesn’t have that depth at all), you get something that just comes across as petulant and overblown.
What if the darkness actually originated from Merlin? Merlin could have extracted the darkness from within himself, and then attempted to destroy it. But he could not do so. Instead he resorted to tethering the darkness to another human soul.
That’s quite interesting! I’m also reminded of the plot of Ursula LeGuin’s Wizard of Earthsea. Could it be that the darkness is in fact a part of Emma’s spirit, and she will need to embrace it/merge with it in order to conquer it?
