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–“If you want me to be a different man, I’m sorry. This is who I am.” I need to think about this more. My first instinct was utter disagreement. It’s not really the truth to who Rumple is in the beginning; it is true to the OOC character we know now. I didn’t like it. And it was poorly written. But it wasn’t without merit. –
See, I actually thought there was some narrative merit to Rumple admitting he’s always craved power, even since before he became the Dark One. Or at least admitting to having this inherent character flaw, apart from the dark magic–but for me, it’s his obsessive need for security more than power. Power is just the means to the ends, but the through line for his character (at least in the first three seasons) was this need to know he’s loved and has a secure home to go to at night. That’s what I got from the earliest Rumple flashback we’ve seen–little boy Rumple just wanted to know his father had a job and that they could be together. That’s was all he needed. He’s essentially a control freak as an adult, which I see as a direct result of a childhood of instability. He needs to know he’s in control of everything at all times–not saying this won’t come back to bite him, and it’s not a great message/super skewed morality, but I do think there’s something kind of new and different about him admitting he’s always been a pretty weak man.
[adrotate group="5"]"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
t’s a lot of things. I think it’s just understanding how expensive these things are, all the logistical pieces, and how fast they have to turn around an episode from writing to filming to editing to marketing.
Thanks for elaborating. That’s insightful. Do you have any insights into the relationship between network and writer? We go back and forth a lot in here over if ABC is more to blame or if A and E need to shoulder it? Not in the continuity things or whatnot, but the dramatic shift in tone (family to romance) and the promotion that is given to certain ship/characters over others?
That’s a really interesting question. We talk a lot about the difference between working on independent films and working for a major studio (I’m in the producing track, so this is especially pertinent.) Everything really does come down to money and creative freedom. If you work for CBS, ABC, NBC, you’re going to have a steady paycheck, but those people are also responsible for keeping “the machine going,” so to speak.
I would guess with the direction Once went, Network Meddling ™ had a lot to do with it. A former casting director for ABC (she was there in 2009-2010, around the time Once would’ve been cast, actually) came in and gave a talk to my class, and she told us about how the New York office would spend weeks auditioning people they felt were perfect, and the LA main office would turn around and totally disregard their work and stick whoever they felt was most marketable in that slot.
I think Michael Raymond James was an Eddy and Adam choice, not a corporate choice, and that the choice to push him out was not forced upon them, but strongly suggested. In a lot of ways, I don’t imagine he fits the Disney brand image they were going for–not that Colin’s Hook really does, either, but this is me calling out Disney on not understanding their own damn brand. His performance was raw and uncomfortable and very, VERY real. He was such a unique entity in the show–he totally worked as the male parallel to Emma, but he definitely had an edge to him…probably because he had a villain for a parent, unlike Emma, which meant when he called his dad out, HE WAS REALLY CALLING HIM OUT. I loved all his scenes with Bobby sorry, tangent.
I don’t know exactly what Kitzowitz’s position is in the hierarchy…they’ve always been front and center with promoting the show, and they have a real presence, more than most show runners imo. At the end of the day, though, they don’t hold the purse strings, ABC does, and that definitely shows, particularly in later seasons. I’m speculating that brand synergy was something that started being pushed, hence things like the Frozen Arc or putting in Merida. Eddy and Adam in the early seasons seemed to have more freedom to play with the mythos and draw from the original, not Disney versions of the characters. I can very well imagine them being told that focus groups and social media and young people LOVE HOOK and them buying into that. I’ve relistened to early podcast interviews with them from S2 and man….they do not seem very interested in his character at all. THEY WERE SO MUCH ABOUT SWANFIRE, TOO. They were so, SO much about that relationship and its far-reaching consequences for the show. For them to be like that, and then a few months later want to kill him off does not add up to me. Someone from corporate told them to push Hook.
All this is to say…they’re both to blame. The corporate big-wigs for not getting what elevated the show above tawdry fairy tale soap, and Eddy and Adam for not fighting for their vision and eventually buying into their own BS internal narrative they concocted to justify it.
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
. I can appreciate some of Once’s limitations, in a weird way, even if I can’t forgive the awful audience/executive meddling.
I would LOVE for you to elaborate on this. Or at least tell us how your perspective has changed with your new education.
It’s a lot of things. I think it’s just understanding how expensive these things are, all the logistical pieces, and how fast they have to turn around an episode from writing to filming to editing to marketing. And how with juggling all this stuff, how easy it is to not see the forest for the trees–the things we sit back and critique half of those guys probably agree with, in their heart of hearts, but they just can’t publicly admit they might have been mistaken in a choice for PR reasons.
An example: I remember being profoundly irritated when the Pan is Rumple’s Dad reveal was done to Regina, Emma and Snow in ‘Save Henry.’ I thought it was a total waste of dramatic potential giving it to them, the characters LEAST CONNECTED to that storyline, and then to have Baelfire find out and process that off-screen. Now I’m fairly certain there was a version of that scene where Bae was with them, but they realized they didn’t have the time to give an in-character, weighty reaction so they just…didn’t. And I get it. STILL ANNOYED and I would have loved to read an earlier draft of that that had Neal’s reaction, but I can understand it.
There’s also the revolving door of guest stars. They want good actors, but good actors need steady work, and filming Once is a huge time commitment, you have to go up to Canada to do it, etc. So they write Pan into one episode and shelve him for six until Robbie Kay can come back once he’s done promoting Heroes. Red is the perpetually reappearing and disappearing character. It sort of is what it is.
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
but I’m actually in film school right now (I moved across the country to get a MA in Film and TV Production)
I don’t think you ever told us! Congrats. You’ll have to keep us updated
I moved out here (Connecticut from Washington State, so…far) about seven months ago. My Masters program is only a year long, so things are moving at a brisk pace. It’s been interesting, though. I understand the film industry so much better than I did when I started. I can appreciate some of Once’s limitations, in a weird way, even if I can’t forgive the awful audience/executive meddling.
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
I just feel like they would only bring Neal back if he became Emma’s love interest again. And even if they did kill off Hook, and MRJ’s scheduling worked, and they somehow were able to revive the character in a non-ridiculous sort of way, I still don’t think it would work. They have come too far. Emma has grieved, and she has loved again. I just don’t realistically see Emma falling back into Neal’s arms, especially after Hook’s death. They could bring Neal back and keep Hook, but I don’t see that happening either. I would love Neal back, and it would certainly surprise a lot of people who said they only killed Neal for the ratings, but I just don’t see it happening. And I’m all about the hope on this show….
I’d be willing to just pretend like the last two seasons never happened if they brought Neal back. Apparently I have an unhealthy relationship with this show that I’m that forgiving of it, but Neal’s death ruined Rumple’s character AND Emma’s character. He was the lynchpin that made both of them work and they blew it AND I WANT THOSE CHARACTERS TO WORK.
I also really miss Emma and Gold’s weird mentor-protege thing, which in the era of Hook seems to have gone the way of the Buffalo.
However, this is all clearly never going to happen, so it’s just me with my Genie wishing away, haha.
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
This is definitely one of the storytelling constraints of TV at work. Reintroducing Pan in this dramatic fashion (“Help me get out of here by betraying one of your allies, I know you’re not ready now BUT YOU WILL BE”) and then not paying it off for 6 episodes is pretty sloppy and sucks the drama right out of it.
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
I went on this huge rant about Neal and the show a few days ago with a friend. I don’t know if I’ve ever talked about it here, but I’m actually in film school right now (I moved across the country to get a MA in Film and TV Production) and Eddy and Adam were huge inspirations for me–which was part of the reason I was so incredibly hurt by what they did with Neal and the show. I really believed it was something special and that they were doing something different with the story telling. I’m so tired of all the grim fatalism in television that’s out there, Once was a breath of fresh air to me.
On a lighter note, ‘Devil’s Due’ inspired my most indulgent side, and I actually wrote Once fic again for the first time in years. IT’S TOTALLY RIDICULOUS BUT THERE YOU GO: http://archiveofourown.org/works/6422305
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
This show was so much better when you could explain the characters’ actions without dying with embarrassment at all the dumb and needlessly complicated magical jargon, lol
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
Hey, can you guys clarify something for me, since I skipped almost two seasons of the show? So I was watching random clips from S4 (I do have a vague idea of the major plot points, like that Belle magically divorced Gold by sending him over the town line, the characters from Frozen showed up, Emma became the Dark One for half a season, etc.) but I don’t have a totally clear picture of everything that happened.
I was watching a clip of Gold and Hook from 4×11…so, when he had regressed back to evil-ish mode in season 4, was he plotting to take both Belle AND Henry over the line and pretend like he tried to save everyone else? I did not realize that they had had Gold show any true interest in Henry post Neal’s death. Sure, it was in a horribly selfish and reductive sort of way, but that character consistency (again…ish) actually kind of surprised me. Did I follow that correctly? How did this plot get foiled?
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
Am I the only one who felt like the whole “Rumple denied Milah the right to more children” was some straw man culpability they’re shoving onto him? It would have worked better if you got even the slightest indication she wants more kids or likes the one she has–but considering the alternative was him murdering someone, I don’t really see why we’re supposed to feel bad for Milah for THAT. Is the show trying to justify her cheating on him? There’s just no way to make the extremeness of her position (hating Spinner Rumps to the point of skipping out on him and her son without even a goodbye) narratively tenable.
You’re not the only one who feels that way.Lol good use of that GIF.
I actually do find Spinner Rumple when he’s around her kind of cringe-worthy. She seems to bring out the character’s most timid, passive side. When he was plotting to steal the dagger with Bae in the flashback episode that showed his origin story (“Price of Gold”? It’s been too long) he had a lot more guts. That being said, Rachel Shelley plays her mothering side pretty damn cold. She never gives Bae a moment of recognition beyond her guilt in ‘The Crocodile.’
"Death cannot stop true love...it can only delay it awhile."
