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When I began seeing more of Cora’s interactions and her comments in Queen of Hearts I kept thinking of the film Serial Mom. Cora does seem a bit happy to rip hearts out of people who do not fit the means to her ends, she has no problem trying to use what is basically domestic abuse to get Regina to conform and accept her instruction (more like commands).
Prior to obtaining magic I suspect that she was already displaying some of the characteristics we see today to a lesser degree and with the limitations of being without magic.
I know it is a stretch but I researched her name found that it was a latinized version of the Greek name Kore meaning maiden. Thinking about maiden definitely reminds of the story of the Miller’s Daughter. There is a variant called The Three Spinners where in this version the daughter where she spreads false claims about her spinning abilities. I wonder if an alternative look would be that she overestimates her abilities and becomes extremely arrogant.
I would then wonder if maybe she has a skill of charming her way out of things with words and actions. As for Rumpelstiltskin he may have asked for a first born as a means of trying to replace the space that Bae once resided. So either Cora bested him or Rumple, being prophetic, sees far into the future. He sees the darkness to come but sees the magic of true love (Snow and Charming seem to be the stronger ones–or at least continues to be. Not sure if true love can die if not nourished.) and Regina’s curse which would put him that much closer to Bae.
I sort of think that his teaching Cora and Regina was definitely part of the plan. As was nurturing the parts of their personality to fit his plan. I also do think that he realizes that Cora suffers from hubris and like the Greek origin counterpart it will be her downfall (she is in her own tragedy–a FTL tragedy). In the end not only does he best Cora in the end, punish her for her hubris, pushes Regina (Cora and Rumple) into using the dark curse and it allows Rumple to come to world that has Bae (perhaps curse has a honing device to set Storybrooke in the time and place–i.e. general area close to Bae)
[adrotate group="5"]@Gypsy wrote:
I, for one, will be very disappointed if Bae is not still alive. I think that would be a big let down after all the buildup…..he is Rumplestiltsknin’s motivation, the reason for the Dark Curse and in turn, the reason for the show.
I do believe Bae is Peter Pan and Neal Cassady (Henry’s father)..albeit, for different reasons 🙂
That’s true. It all depends on the vortex worked. Since time is a big ball of Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey…Stuff. Additionally it is possible that Baelfire ended up around the same time Emma did. Then there would be how the curse worked and whether Rumpelstiltskin somehow worked into the curse to hone into the time that Bae lived.
I guess for me I was simply thinking of the impact of the price of magic from a plot bunny (fanfiction) point of view.
Thankfully Belle has a very close-knit support group growing which could come to her aid if needed.
Since Hook does know about Belle then his best course of action would be to take away Rumple’s true love the way Rumple took away his. As for knowing about the dagger he did ask Belle that she had to have known a way of killing the Dark One. However he made no mention as to how.
Rumple has been the Dark One for a long while now and it is possible that some his killings could have been those who knew of the story to prevent it being told orally as well as written down. I would not be surprised if he went to great lengths to destroy all artifacts about The Dark One so that the only ones who would know the truth would be those who had been alive from that time (Blue Fairy, Hook and his crew, August, and Bae. Any others I am missing?).
@Phee wrote:
@Phee wrote:
Adam Horowitz: We might!
Taken from this article, which is sorta spoilery, so don’t click if you don’t wanna know stuff: http://www.tvguide.com/News/Once-Upon-Time-Spoilers-Horowitz-Kitsis-1054834.aspx
When it was announced that we’d be getting Aurora, everyone assumed that we’d be getting the Sleeping Beauty we all know. Turns out she’s actually a different character, which I think was clever of them, because it means they can tell Aurora’s story, which has elements of her mother’s, so it not completely foreign to us, and then they can also tell us the actual Sleeping Beauty story as they move ahead in developing Aurora’s character. Two fairytales for the price of one. 😉
I’m looking forward to seeing more of her story, to see how she ended up in the same position as her mother, and what this sacrifice is she mentioned.
Here’s how the casting call described her:
Female, early to mid 20s. Born into a life of wealth and privilege, Anastasia was raised every bit the polished princess. But beneath the shiny veneer of a spoiled young girl beats the heart of a woman willing to sacrifice everything for love.
The “spoiled young girl” vibe has bugged me a time or two, but I’m waiting for them to flesh out the character a bit more before I decide just how much that’s gonna bug me once we get to know her properly.
PS. I’m completely in love with her dress and want one for my very own.
Quick question how long was the sleeping curse for Aurora (or at least the sleeping beauty we know)?
I like this approach because I wonder then if there are certain spells that are generational. It seems that Maleficent cast a curse that would not only affect Aurora’s mother but also Aurora herself. The only other possibility is that the spell was cast while Aurora’s mother was pregnant with Aurora because something that happened.
This is only makes me have so many plot bunnies! One is that Aurora’s mother stole Maleficent’s true love, or fiance/husband who then left her to be with Aurora’s mother. Maleficent learned dark magic and cast the sleeping curse to punish Aurora and her ex. Depending on how long the sleeping curse lasted (maybe Maleficent hid Aurora’s mother away for instance) then we could the see the heartbreak of Aurora’s mother being young and her husband (Maleficent’s ex) being an older gentleman (perhaps much older) when he finally found her. Then having the pain of Aurora’s mother watching him pass on within a short time…
@Cherish wrote:
Question. Why do you guys love Belle? Someone in another thread was confused as to why Hook hitting Belle would upset people so much considering we’ve seen Rumpel. Regina and Cora do far worse. She speculated that the fact that Hook hit Belle made it a lot worse for some reason. So, what do you guys think?
I was already a fan of Belle overall. I personally love her personality. She reminds me of characters like Tohru Honda from Fruits Basket, Jane Bennett from Lizzie Bennet Diaries (webshow) and more.
What I like about her character is that she is one of the few that is truly innocent. Part of her innocence is very much due to being sheltered much of her life the way most women in her elevated status would have been (and especially because it seems that she possibly came from a more than normal childhood then most). From the episode Skin Deep I feel as if we were given a glimpse into someone who is naturally a very kind-hearted person. She went along with the deal to save her village, her friends, and loved ones. Yes it is true that she did so with her own agenda (seeing the world, an adventure etc). Furthermore I do love that she is one that respects and desires using one’s mind and increasing knowledge through reading, study etc.
Then later on when she discusses love and the like I feel as if again we someone who simply is very kind, compassionate, forgiving and understanding. Belle seems the type of person who might seem very nice on the outside but prefers to keep conflict bottled up or attempts to observe then reacts later either through understanding, forgiving (though on specific terms she is living on her own after all).
She has stood up to her father and Rumple so I believe she is capable of standing up for what she believes and when she has been slighted, and hurt but is willing to slowly forgive on the premise that the other person provides a reason for their behavior and a willingness to change. She was fully intent on ending things with Rumple but when she learned about the fact that Rumple sees magic as his crutch, his remorse over losing Bae and wanting to find him again that she realizes that there was a good reason why Rumple has acted why he has but that still does not excuse the specific acts.
I believe her date with Rumple over a hamburger was her subtle way of telling Rumple she is willing to work on forgiving him provided he work on changing (and maybe he will have to do a My Name is Earl and earn the forgiveness of the townsfolk though some won’t because of he had done–one lost his dad for instance).
That said if she does forgive Rumple too quickly I will not be keen on liking that because it would be a case of her personality being a detriment and an obstacle and essentially being too forgiving.
@Oncewatcher wrote:
Elle —
About Aurora’s heart: Hook is a chess player. Remember; He gave her heart to Mulan, for it’s return to Aurora. He might be a bit devious, but he is strategic all the way.
That can change. Eventually, I want to see redemption from Hook.I’d also like to see the show do more with him. They think the women were mad when they killed of Graham? If Hook dies, I think a lot of people will be tired of letting a tv show drag their hearts in the dirt. I will be.
I am not sure I agree with where you are coming from (Hook fangirl) because if Hook is a chess player then how better his odds on Team!Emma (Emma, Snow etc) then to do something horrible (and it is horrible) like rip Aurora’s heart out but then offset that by returning Aurora’s heart to Mulan. That gives him at the least a couple of advantages. It causes Team!Emma to believe this working with Cora was due to the fact that he would use any means to get to Storybrook to exact his revenge (and he did say he preferred working with Emma–but I believe that anyone would be safer and wiser to work with) and he also has that moment of goodness
And if he is using ripping out Aurora’s heart out then returning it as a way of garnering favor to only throw Team!Emma under the bus if it proves advantageous to team up with Cora and whichever proves best to exact his revenge on Rumple.
It could be simple human nature wanting to want to keep one’s self in the winning position. However it seems that in Fairy Tale Land how it operates is whether or not one’s self-serving ways are for the good or the destruction of others (lives, the world as a whole) is what defines them as a villain or not. Take for instance Hook has killed many persons; however, Charming as well has been seen killing soldiers as well but it was seen for the greater good because it was in self-defense (self-serving wanting to preserve one’s life) and against a villain (King George).
@Oncewatcher wrote:
The reason I disagree with that, is because it’s all been done before. “The Villan”, and “The Good Guy” are seen all the time. There’s so much potential with what the writers could do with hook…..I want them to use more imagination with this.
I saw a post on ABC’s board, and the poster was exactly right. There’s talk about people who want to see villans with villans, and good folks with good folks. Hook + Regina. Can you say Boris and Natasha (Bullwinkle)?
It’d be booring for Hook to remain a stereotypical villan. It’d be a shame not to use more imagination than that. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
I agree and disagree with you. Yes the good and bad guys are seen a dime a dozen. However this show has shown that these characters are not stereotypical good and bad guys at all. They have fleshed out villains more than most movies and tv shows and given their history which explains how they became what they became. However just as people are layered they have shown glimpses of goodness in all “villains” in Regina (with Henry), Rumple (with Belle, and Henry in some ways). They have fleshed out the good guys as well. Snow White stole from Charming, Charming was seen twisting a neck etc. Each of the characters have shown that they are not stereotypical. Yes Snow and Charming seem stereotypical but OUAT has done a superb job on showing the deeper side of these characters..
It all depends on Hook deals with the very things that can cause him to embrace the darkness. If his revenge is simply too great to overcome then he is going to become more than simply a villain he is going to have his heart and soul consumed by the darkness… a villain among villains..
I do think the cards line up to have Hook want to be a good guy. And as you say it is boring to have the stereotypical villain and it would be boring to have Hook be the stereotypical good guy. In fact if they did make him to suddenly want to do right for Emma alone and emphasize the love interest aspect I might gag. I would much rather have him show keen interest in Emma struggle with him womanizing ways (maybe be confronted by some husbands), his revenge, etc. And if it is too much it is too much but I would feel more satisfied that no matter what path the writers take him that they fleshed out the story enough where Hook is given the chance he deserves.. and that Hook chooses his destiny with his eyes wide open, accepting the consequences good and bad as they come…
I believe that if they emphasize him as a love interest for Emma then he might be cast off too easily (if say for instance the love interest arc ends) but there is a lot of possibility. Really what I like about this show is that there are a lot of possibility for all characters. Look at what they have done with Grumpy, Rumple, Belle… and there is a lot of history he has to come to grips with his past (his piracy, his being in neverland, his revenge–whether it was for pride, his lost hand or milah) and possibly more that a few good moments might not help. Not to say it can’t happen but it all depends on what Hook wants really and if he will have a “loved” (possibly Emma) one to give him the bit of humanity that Regina and Rumple have to soften their villainy…
Hook does show a lot of promise. As long as there is a good story to tell I do not mind him staying on the show.
@Oncewatcher wrote:
I agree. A good artist creates a work of art a certain way because it says what they want to say, not because they want it to be popular….
But, what good is that, if the only thing it benefits is the satisfaction of one’s vain imagination? After all, according to legend, Ceasar did play his violin while Rome burned.[/quote]
Because as fans we should appreciate the story as a whole that wanted to tell a good story not for the sake of the whims of the studios or fans. If some of my fave characters were to meet an untimely end but in the grand scheme of this their death was more than a plot device then I would welcome it. Would I be sad? Yes. If the story would suffer without this specific turn of events then I would the writers to go with what has to be done.
@PriceofMagic wrote:
I think the powers that were used Rumple as a scapegoat. I think the rest of Rumple’s platoon died and because he was they only survivor, the powers that were blamed him for losing the battle. That way they could keep recruiting people to fight in the war against the ogres and just say that the reason why Rumple’s platoon were all killed was because Rumple ran away.
I don’t think Rumple was a coward his whole life, he went to fight in the war and he boarded a ship full of pirates to try and get Milah back, he had a moment of weakness where self preservation kicks in and he ran for his life whereas everybody else were killed by the ogres. He believes himself a coward because everybody calls him one and treats him as such and after a while he probably believed it to be true. However, it’s not like he point blank refused to go to war, he did go. He probably ran because his side were losing and there was no advantage to be gained in staying and being killed.
I wonder if Milah was actually aware of the horrors Rumple faced in the ogre wars or did she not think it was that big a deal because she was such a *(please avoid obscenities)* to Rumple. He came home probably looking for a bit of consolation and support and she basically tells him she’d wished he’d died.
My question is. Why does mr. Gold not turn more Rumplestiltzkin like now that magic is in Storybrook ? Why does his skin not turn gold/green, why don’t he go insane or you know.. become influenced by the magic of the curse in the dagger ???
Rumple went insane because he was denied human contact according to one of the sneak peeks. He was left alone with only his thoughts and regrets for company. He was probably tortured by his actions of letting Bae go and believing Belle to be dead because he kicked her out. No wonder he went crazy.
I’ve said in another thread that perhaps it’s just a matter of time before people start turning back into their fairytale forms. I think it’ll be a gradual process such as Rumple starts walking without a limp. Also if outsiders are starting to come to Storybrooke, it’ll be a lot harder to conceal the nature of the town if you have a talking cricket, fairies and Rumple looking like his old self running around town.
I really like a lot of your points in this post. There is something that has been on my mind for a while. With Rumple being a part of the platoon what would have his role been? Because I keep wondering if Rumple was assigned to being a medic or a scout due to his limp. If that is the case then it would be reasonable if he was going to run away because his role is much rarer then a basic soldier.
But I almost feel as if his being called a coward is much more layered. I think the Powers labeled him as a coward to make a pariah among his town and those he crossed paths with. The ostracism and hardship he faced I believe could be a very clear message for those others who wanted to desert the war (though I always wonder if it were those who were “cowards” or those who might have seen the war for it was).
I keep wondering what the other message was as well. Perhaps it was a way of telling those like him (those who might be differently abled, have strengths that were not considered “masculine” etc) that in that time that being different was going to have them face hardships.
I say this because I am going to believe that the women in the war were the medics, seamstresses, cooks, scouts etc and then we have Rumple. Then there is the fact that he was a wool spinner at him which in medieval times was a job mostly done by women and children. This could have been a direct message of “conform to the ideals” of men and women (even if not explicitly expressed they were still there).
I never thought coward was an apt way to describe Rumple. It seemed too simple to call him a coward with the insult coming from the perception of the medieval times. Aside from being the only survivor from his platoon (and because of that how can anyone know for sure what happened) nothing he has done as seemed outright cowardice. Perhaps fearful but not cowardice.
I agree about Rumple and Hook. Rumple went on board the ship with pirates who all have swords. Hook wanted to fight but at that point he did it because he knew he would win and he was essentially a bully. It took courage to go on that ship. I believe it took intelligence to weigh out the situation (Rumple with a limp versus Hook and more than likely joined by some of his men because that is usually what happens) and decided that his life was more
important than his wife’s.When he did not join Bae I do think it was some cowardice but a lot of fear. Which is understandable considering all the hardships he faced for not being the male archetype (occupation, role in the platoon, physical limitation) and what would then happen if he was stripped of his power, had the same physical limitation and faced with the same environment…
And the thing is depending on how time works in FTL in comparison to ours… for sake of simplicity if time moved at the same rate (and Robert Carlyle said in an interview Rumple was 300 years old) then they would have landed in 1700s here… and probably would have faced the same hardships (being ostracized etc).
Aside from that he has done a lot of evil things but I do believe that his hope of reuniting with Bae, loving Belle gives him enough humanity (even if a little) that makes it so that he is not wholly consumed by the darkness… even if he is more dark then good then maybe he becomes a bit more good then evil
