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Very interesting discussion, guys! My two cents
1. I think some of Hook’s belligerence towards Bae (despite the underlying affection) is because he’s starting to realize that Bae is responsible for Emma’s emotional walls. I think juvenile behaviour was just that..juvenile and not at all in keeping with the seriousness of the situation they were in, but Hook had been almost apologetic to Bae till then. Its only after he tells Emma that he’s going win her heart (and I think he gets some confidence that he has a fighting chance with her when she thanks him for telling them about Neal, because this meant she was seeing him for who he really was), that he starts off the “silly” competition.
2. About redemption, I don’t think its going to be all that simple and straightforward. I think there’ll be a fair amount of back-sliding like we’ve seen with Rumple and Regina too. The key difference is I think, that Regina and Rumple have someone they love dearly and who loves them back (Henry and Belle) to steer them back on the right path and remind them of the better version of themselves. I think Killian needs this too to fully achieve his redemption. Once he knows Emma loves him back for who he is, he will be a better person. He’s already got Charming’s grudging thanks for helping him and Snow doesn’t see him as completely bad either. So yes, while it’ll be a bumpy road ahead for him, he will continue to prove himself in his mission to win Emma’s heart and in doing so lies his redemption.
[adrotate group="5"]In answer to one of your questions, I think that Hook didn’t really think he had a chance with Emma when he revealed his secret but since then a couple of things have happened:
- Hook heard Neal say that he’d fight for Emma which means…they’re not together (also there was just a hug, no kisses or grand declarations and no hanging around each other afterwards – Emma looked uncomfortable, they both looked sad, and Neal walked off – not exactly a big lovely reunion and we know Hook witnessed this)
- Hook’s conversation with Neal – he thought that Neal heard him basically reveal that he’s in love with Emma so he was thanking him for not freaking out about that/the kiss (which he also mentioned as part of the secret) only to find out that Emma hadn’t mentioned it at all! – Initially he is very hurt by this (the pain in his voice *sobs*) but then it’s like a little lightswitch goes on, where he suddenly realizes that she wasn’t trying to get a clean slate with Neal. She could easily have said she kissed Hook but it didn’t mean anything and please don’t hold it against me because I thought you were dead, but she didn’t feel the need to.
This last point is shown again later when she asks Hook why Neal’s acting like that and he tells her he thought Neal heard him say they kissed and she got upset as to why he might think she had bothered to tell him. I really think that he knows her well enough to know that had she wanted to dive back into something with Neal, she WOULD have told him and the fact that she didn’t, again that she wasn’t trying for a clean slate ON TOP OF the fact that it didn’t look like a happy reunion to begin with, gave him reason to hope.
And now that he does have hope, he’s in this completely. He’s got a shot and he’s not going to step aside until EMMA tells him to. Just like it didn’t matter what Charming had to say about it. Hook’s right – until Emma makes a CHOICE – and she will eventually have to – both guys are gonna fight for her.
@Mystery Kat, thank you for your response. It actually explains quite nicely why Killian might have been feeling the way he was.
And this tumblr user summed it up perfectly
Pay attention to Emma’s wording.
“I realize you could’ve kept Pan’s information to yourself.”
To himself. She’s saying…he could’ve been selfish. But he wasn’t. He put her and Neal first, before his own happiness.
This is the moment that gives Hook his confidence back. Emma asked Hook why he assumed Emma told Neal about the kiss, and he said it was because he was hoping it meant something. But what really meant something to Emma was his selflessness; his honor. The very definitive quality about his true self that he’s trying so hard to regain.
That’s what she sees. And that’s what confirms Hook’s belief in their love. What leads to this speech:
When I win your heart, Emma, and I will win it, it’ll not be because of any trickery. It’ll be because you want me”
Hook says this because he sees that Emma sees him.
Perfect explanation!
Here’s the linkSo I haven’t really been a participant on here since the season began airing and very little before then too, but I’ve been reading all your comments on this thread and I must say I simply loved reading every one of them and agree with what most of you say about CS. I’ve been on board the CS ship ever since “Tallahassee” (I actually binge-watched seasons 1 and 2 in May ) but never realized how hard I shipped them and now its turned into a raging obsession with me checking the tag on tumblr every now and then and coming on here to read the posts and checking twitter for cast tweets and other spoilers. I HAVE NEVER..I repeat NEVER ever done this for any show or any fictional TV couple. CS has unleashed a manic shipper in me, that I never knew even existed, Frankly it was all hidden potential I guess ☺
Anyway, about the last episode, you guys have done such a wonderful job of analyzing each scene I don’t feel I could add anything to it. However here are few of my thoughts, sorry if turned out more long-winded than I intended!1. I thought Hook’s immediate jumping to join them in shadow hunting was more out of jealousy and not wanting Emma to be alone with Neal, which is perfectly ok. He wants to be by his woman’s side and wants to make sure the competition doesn’t get ahead.
2. He genuinely wanted to thank Neal for being understanding and was taken aback when he realized Emma hadn’t told him about their kiss. The shocked look on Neal’s face also showed that he wasn’t expecting this revelation. That said, I’m a bit upset that they made all the Hook-Neal reuniting moments about Emma. I would’ve loved some reference to something Hook had taught him or a shared moment from the past, but apart from Neal’s “Thanks, man” to Hook when he volunteers to join him I saw no remnants of the affection between these two men and we know it was there, we’ve seen genuine grief and emotion in Hook when he talked about Neal to Emma (“Enough to know I miss him too” “he got that from his mother” “he was an apt pupil” “We spent some time together”), but now everything is all being rivals in love. Neal’s snarky comment to Hook about the cutlass as a keepsake and that Emma wouldn’t need it anymore since she has him now was really telling where these two stand with each other. I was really hoping Neal would ask Hook what he was doing back in Neverland, helping them find Henry. He would’ve had to realize that Hook has no vested interest here, Henry means nothing to him and he’s actually given up his revenge and taken his sworn enemy on board his beloved ship to bring them here. That’s something worth addressing and apart from 3X01 when we hear Hook say to Regina “here I am sailing back into NL with him as my guest of honour” there’s been no mention of it at all.
3. The revelation. Okay, I admit this confuses a little bit out of me, Maybe you guys can help. Emma stops him to ask what’s up with him and Neal and he tells her he assumed she’d told him about them, their kiss. And she asks him why he’d assume something like that. And then he gets this pained look in his eyes when he says “ Because I was hoping it meant something”. Up until this point he has no reason to hope he has any chance with her. In the last episode, we saw the bleak look in his eyes when he hears Neal tell her he’d never stop fighting for her. I guess he thinks whatever happened between him and Emma happened because she thought Neal was dead and now that Neal was back, she’d choose him. But then she deflects..doesn’t right out say the kiss didn’t mean anything but turns the topic around back to him, his openness and selflessness in revealing the truth about Neal and the fact that he didn’t have to. That was a HUGE moment. It told us she realized he didn’t have to tell them and that Pan had told him first because he’d wanted to offer him a deal. She’s insightful, our Emma! But she’s surprised he didn’t take Pan’s deal (she hasn’t realized this is the 2nd deal he hasn’t taken) and chose instead to reveal the truth. Again that hurt look in his eyes (I swear Colin kills me everytime with his puppy face), when he says “Does that surprise you?” Because of course, after everything he’s done so far, putting her and her quest for Henry first, she’s still surprised by him and his intentions. Then her statement justifying why she feels that way “You’re a pirate” and you can see the hurt look in his eyes when he looks down and smiles a sad smile, (yes I’m a pirate, I will always be one, but don’t you see I’m trying to change, can’t you see I’m doing it all for you?) he doesn’t shy away from who he is, but is pained that she still sees him the way he was rather than his changed self.
4. In the next moment his entire demeanor changes. He moves closer to her and talks about good form and avers that he will win her heart and when he does it will be because she wants it too. This moment took my breath away because it had everything. It was THE most romantic moment between them and Emma’s reaction spoke volumes about how his speech affected her. Her soft gasp when he moves in, her eyes fluttering, her gaze flickering from his lips to eyes and back, her hair gently blowing in the breeze (his too) ..its as if time stood still for them (these two idiots reduce me to a blithering babbling mess) and her breathy whisper of “This is not a contest Hook” and her soft smile when she says that. All PERFECTION. I love the sexual tension between these just as much as the bantering and the understanding because its such an essential component in a relationship.
5. Okay what confuses me is this: Hook really had no reason to think he had a fighting chance with her. He believed in the last episode after they found Neal and he heard his comment about fighting for her that she would pick him and that she had told him about them. But she hadn’t, so he knew that wasn’t her darkest secret. But then what was? And why would he assume Neal heard his secret when he didn’t hear Emma’s? And why would the fact that she hadn’t told Neal about them give him hope, especially when he says to her that he thought she’d have told him because he was hoping it meant something to her. The fact that she didn’t could mean it didn’t (mean something that is). And all through we’ve seen Emma reiterating that it was just a kiss. And Hook too thinks if it was important enough to her, she’d have confessed about it to Neal. She didn’t. He probably realizes that things are not all hunky-dory between them (Else why would Neal make that comment about never stopping fighting for her), but he doesn’t know what. Then she thanks him and is surprised that he did what he did for a friend (even if he’s his rival in love), putting him first, refusing whatever convoluted deal Pan offered him and did the honorable thing although he’s a pirate. Again no apparent encouragement. Yet he moves in. And says he WILL win her heart. That she WILL want him. And says it with confidence. Not cockiness, but sincerity and honesty. (I love that he is so OPEN and HONEST with her. He is completely trusting her with his heart and is not afraid to do so, even though his heart might be crushed beyond repair). Where in the hell does he get this confidence? Why does he think he has a fighting chance with her? That she will pick him instead of Neal. He has no intention of backing away, although in 3X06 we saw a different body language, defeated, unsure, accepting. But here we see a whole new demeanor. Anyone offer any explanation on this? I guess I feel that his confidence stems from his own overwhelming love for her. He knows its strong, its pure, its true and he knows she’s not indifferent to him. This is Emma Swan, she could’ve totally shut him down when he talked about winning her heart, but she didn’t. All she said is that it wasn’t a contest. Which he insisted it was and that she would have to choose. I actually liked that he was being a bit pushy here, because Emma needs pushing. She likes to bury her feelings and deflect but that’s not what he wants. He wants her to face up to the situation. Yes, He recognizes that rescuing Henry is her priority number one, but after that “the fun begins” (I swear I melted into a puddle when Colin said those lines especially with that very suggestive smile; I can’t wait for them to get back to SB and for the “fun” to begin)
6. Hook said everything right in this scene. I especially loved when Emma looks up to him for reassurance, so openly vulnerable and his quiet confidence and faith when he says “I have yet to see you fail” (*Excuse me while I go flail and sob over the epicness of my ship*). Its my favorite moment in the scene. It says so much about their relationship and how much it has progressed. It also tells us Emma needs someone like Killian by her side, to have faith and belief in her, to completely trust her and to reaffirm that faith in her abilities by boosting her confidence. She needs an equal, a partner, a friend, an ally, a comrade, call it what you will. But she needs something more than what Henry (though he will always be first) and her parents (though they love her very much) can give her. It’s good to see Emma being open and vulnerable before him. He made himself vulnerable to her when he made his confession, opened his heart and laid it bare before her and now told her that he’d WIN her (interesting choice of words there I thought. Killian says WIN, which is so different from Neal’s talking about fighting. The intent maybe the same, but the manner in which it is conveyed makes all the difference)
7. Also can I say how much I hated the lighter scene and two 200 +year old guys acting like 5 year olds? I understand the need to set it up like the guys were competing for Emma and for Emma to call them out on it and emphasize that there’s only room in her life for Henry right now, but couldn’t they have approached it differently? I mean, two grown men, both knowing the gravity of the situation they’re in, one with his kid’s life on the line, and the other who’s been doing the honorable thing up until now suddenly turn around and start behaving like complete idiots? If they had to have some sort of disagreement I’d rather it was a verbal argument and Emma yelling at them later for it. But I guess that was a way for them to show us the ridiculousness of the love triangle and make us cringe at how juvenile they were being and take off our shipper goggles and say, “Back off, both of you, Emma doesn’t need either of you. She is badass enough to do this on her own”. If any of us, with our ship-centric myopic vision were thinking its Hook or Neal that’s helping her and she couldn’t have done this without either of them, we were wrong. This is Emma Swan, she’s the heroine. She gets shit done. All right, point taken. But did you really have to reduce two characters to mindless idiots to make that point?
8. But I loved Killian’s honesty yet again here. “Its not the lighter we were fighting over, love”. He’s not letting her go that easy. He’s not afraid to spell it out for her. He can spare her feelings when required yes, but honesty and openness is so important. We saw what it did to Snow when she discovered Charming hadn’t been upfront with her. She told him he didn’t believe in them. Love is sacrifice, but its also truth.
9. Okay, the reaction Emma had when the shadow grabbed Hook and Neal and the gut-wrenching way in which she screamed out Hook’s name really was the clincher. I don’t think there can be any doubt who she’s gonna pick now. And the expression on her face after they’re safe and she’s watching Hook recover, dust himself off and stand, is one of wonder, amazement and fear. She may have been answering Neal about the magic, but she looked at Hook. And in that moment she probably realized how terrified she’d been at the thought of losing him. And that she has feelings for him deeper that she’s let herself acknowledge. I don’t know if I’m over-thinking this, maybe some of you could tell me differently?
10. Tink and Bae.. yes I did see a spark in Tink’s eyes when she saw Neal and the smile on Neal’s face was genuine. There is affection there. But is there something else? I don’t know. I don’t know if I ship them. But I do want Neal to be happy. Except I know that he and Emma won’t make each other happy. I love the point someone here made that Emma never really knew the real Neal and Neal doesn’t know Emma at all. And his surprise at her magic was a huge hint. He seemed taken aback and entirely unsure how he felt about watching her do magic. Knowing his hatred for magic and how its screwed up his life, I wasn’t surprised at all when his next words to Emma were about Henry and him being all there is between them.
11. The next episode I guess will focus less on the love triangle (I’m guessing they ridiculed it for that very reason) and more on the mission. But did anyone notice Emma pulling on Hook’s arm in the promo? (Yayy I’m so excited!)
Helllooooo CS Shipmates
Just popping in after a loooong hiatus to say an excited “Howdy”…*insert 27 flails and 52 screams and a significant amount of incoherent babbling* ..THE KISS..THE KISS!!! OMG! I’ve read all your posts and they’re awesome but I’m incapable of saying anything because….. THE KISS!!!!
*passes out from overdose of feels and rum*
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Welcome to the club Polythenepam!
Thank you, Kat! And thanks for the cookies!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
1. I agree with most of what you said and am so happy to see more on board! I’m at times torn and I get the appeal of both sides of the triangle but I love love love CS and I will be absolutely gutted if they have set up THIS much stuff just to make Emma go back to Neal. If they wanted us to root for him, they shouldn’t have put in such an awesome other choice. Likewise I was a bit annoyed that they made him look like the fall guy so that we’d have to feel sorry for him getting his heart broken because of Hook again, but with more time hopefully he will come to realize that Hook is good for Emma too and respect whatever HER choice is in the end (please be Hook!).
I should think Hook is also entitled to a LOT of sympathy votes if Emma goes with Nealfire, Hook’ll be getting HIS heart broken again by the father-son duo! Right now Hook is being seen as a distraction and I do think the writers are to blame for creating this impression of Hook by letting him double-cross, get double-crossed, beaten up, tied up, knocked over and generally be a goofball all through this season. But I have to say, the rare instances where Hook opens out, most of them with Emma, are what have endured for me and have endeared this character even more to me. I want Hook and Emma both to get their happiness and together!! 🙂 . Nealfire deserves happiness too after everything he’s been through, but I don’t know if he deserves Emma. If he was being depicted as one half of a future true love story, he certainly left a LOT to be desired! I’d be MAD and GUTTED if all the CS build-up came to naught and they were just setting up for cheap soap-operaish triangle only to have her go “back” to Neal.. Ugghhhhh!!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
2. As for the comment about why Hook came back – I don’t think it’s just shipper goggles I really don’t. I think it was BOTH Emma & Bae that brought him back. To some who don’t understand the significance of the bean as a symbol of Hook & Emma, it’s just Hook tossing the bean over in his hand debating whether to use it or not until he sees the scratchmarks which remind him of Bae. But let us not forget that the bean is CS’s thing. Colin even said on twitter that it was both things that made him turn around. I don’t think Hook would have turned around to honor a guy he just found out was dead by helping a town full of people who hated him and had betrayed him on more than one occasion.
I agree. The bean IS a symbol for Hook & Emma and the dried up bean metaphor couldn’t be lost on anyone 😉 , especially when Hook writes it off and then immediately proceeds to rejuvenate it! 😉 . Yeah, I can definitely see the merit of Emma’s statement about being a part of something affecting Hook as much as the scratch drawings on the wheel. I’m not aware of Colin’s tweet on this, but anything that speaks in CS’s favor has me on board!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Emma’s speech to him and acknowledging their connection got to him. By the time he found out about Neal he had already handed her the empty pouch (which she never even THOUGHT to check, meaning she TRUSTED him, hence how upset she was and how happy she was when he came back – we saw that look on the dock. They purposely showed us her reaction even though she played it off when he got there). When he arrived he focused on HER (not that he wasn’t doing that the entire episode *thud*) and when he made the statement about needing reminding that he could care he was looking directly at her and gave it back as a sign of trust. He was showing that he was in and she accepted it from him (this time thankfully the hands brushing did not = locking someone up!). She didn’t have to give the bean back to him to use for the portal either. She handed it back over and trusted him to do the most important thing in the world: take them to NL to save her son. She could have thought “NL” and thrown the bean herself but she showed trust in him, just like he had in her.
Yeah, she never checked the pouch the first time, but she did the second time when he came back and she DID find the bean in it, meaning her trust in him was vindicated. The camera was pointing at HER face, it was only her reaction that we saw..to him coming back and him handing the bean to her..although he took it from Charming. And yes, she gave him the bean to throw in a sign that she trusted him too after all the back and forth that happened between them, she was ready to forget all that and move ahead, to show that she appreciated his gesture and she reciprocated with one of her own.
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
Let’s face it: Hook can hold a grudge. Is he ever upset with Emma (when Cora isn’t around pulling the strings?) Emma has betrayed him yet he still says “Hey beautiful” and flirts with her when he’s in extreme pain the next time he sees her.
^This! Yeah, there are no remonstrations or accusations when they meet after Emma betrays him.. its only “Hey beautiful” and similarly when he comes back to the port after his betrayal in the finale, she meets him with a simple “What are you doing here? I thought you didn’t care about anyone but yourself”..but there’s no screaming, yelling, just a simple statement of facts and a curiosity as to what made him return…and a genuine surprise when he hands her the bean. Yes, these two GET each other in a beautifully subtle and deep way..that is at once poignant and healing. (*feels coming on*)
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
he knew that Regina dying wouldn’t affect Emma as much but if anything happened to Charming, especially when Hook was supposed to have his back, Emma might never forgive him.
Wow, yeah, never saw it this way, Kat. He protected Charming because he’s important to Emma and he’s rescuing Henry because he’s important to Emma too…
[ @MysteryKat25 wrote:
You know what I really love? Charming felt the need to step in and make sure that Emma was ok when she was left alone in Gold’s shop with Neal (who he has NEVER confronted by the way, grr), yet he was perfectly fine to walk away and usher everyone outside after Emma talked to Hook in the diner
Ok… this I definitely have to watch again. I don’t recall the Gold’s shop with Neal bit
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
4. I’m with you on the not celebrating just yet. I see tons of stuff that gives me reason to hope, but I’m also very afraid that we’re setting ourselves up for disappointment too.
There are so many ways they can choose to do this…
a) She goes with Neal because she really loves him and hooks up briefly with Hook just because he’s available and Hook sees it that way too and is Ok with being thrown off like a used blanket (GRRRR!) and walks away a loner..this would probably mean the end of story arc for Hook unless they find a new way to fit him in.
b) She goes with Neal and loves him, but Hook loves her and gets into BIG bad guy mode all over again and turns against the whole Stiltskin and Charming family to seek revenge ..I don’t see this working because they have portrayed Hook for too long as the vengeance seeking lover, and lets face it he’d probably be no match for Rumple and Emma together, and possibly Henry too. He might team up with Regina (I hate this idea so much, I’m gagging), but then again its a “been there, done that” kind of path for the writers to take and it would be too soap-operaish IMO. I don’t see Hook as the kind of guy who’d want to force someone to love him. He has no scruples, true, but I don’t see him wanting to break up a happy family just because his love was spurned. He’s not mean-minded or petty. With Milah, it was her choice to leave Rumple and Bae and come to him, he never forced her. And I don’t see him wanting to do that with Emma either.
c) Emma loves Hook but chooses Neal because of Henry (this may not happen since Adam has already said this would not be the reason for Emma’s choice) OR because she feels she needs to give Neal another chance OR Hook backs off because he doesn’t want to hurt Bae again or because of some shady blackmailing from Rumple. I would totally buy this scenario..there would be a lot of angst, separation pangs and Emma would want try and work things out with Neal initially but she would keep getting drawn to Hook (*God..cannot handle the feels*)
d) Emma chooses Hook and Neal takes it badly, teams up with Papa dearest to wreak revenge on the Charmings. Again, I don’t see Nealfire resorting to this from what we’ve been shown of him, he seems like a sweet guy, but again, who knows how the writers minds work.
I too don’t want Neal to get hurt but at least he’ll have his family… his father, his son and I can see the appeal of a EvilFire too. Henry would have two sets of parents and it would all be One , big happy family! 😀
e) OR they throw a curve ball and introduce a totally new love interest for Emma putting and end to all further speculation about ST or CS! 🙄@MysteryKat25 wrote:
5. So I am cautiously optimistic but still afraid at times. I want to be open to and love whatever they throw at us as endgame but I’m also nervous that they’re setting it up for CS to get close while Neal is out of the picture. they’re either cruel or are deliberately planting all of the CS stuff at this point cause the finale SCREAMED CS to me.
Yes, my BFF was blown away when she watched Hook’s debut episode, but after Tallahassee she was like…OMG! The tension was sooo thick you could cut it with a knife… and the bandaging thing..he didn’t have to do it quite like that with his mouth and her fingers grazing his cheek (*thud*) ; And the trip wire act? She all but pulled him into her arms..she could have pushed him aside or just dragged him away. So all that was intentionally leading upto CS and I have a feeling we’d have seen a lot more build-up and Hook were it not for Colin’s unfortunate accident. The hospital scene breaks me up each time I see it, there is so much conveyed in their gazes and their eyes speak volumes of the way they both feel… Her voice breaking when she says “I’d pick you” could almost translate into, “I don’t want you to die, you idiot, why do have to cross swords with such a powerful demon?”
And the finale of course is loaded with it… the scene where she speaks to him about being part of something and then almost as though he can read her mind, he KNOWS that’s not the real reason and he waits to ask her about it and yeah, Charming leaves her to deal with Hook alone.@MysteryKat25 wrote:
If anybody can understand a guy who would do anything and love as deeply as Hook does it’ll be Charming. I want more of their budding bromance (which of course starts by caring about Emma) and I think Snow will be the one to fight things more (even though she’s been watching them like a hawk from the start).
I would love a Charming-Hook buddy bromance thing!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
9. I do like the idea that they somehow find Neal earlier on so that he’s a part of the action too. They’re going to have to wrap up MAP’s storyline pretty fast because the actresses are on other shows and Neal is an important part of things + he has the knowledge of NL as well.
Yes, Neal being in on the action at NL can possibly bring out more intense drama to the situation, Neal trying to prove himself to Emma and of course wanting to do the best for his son and Hook, well, Hook being Hero Hook and showing Bae that he really meant to change for him all those years ago and if he had taken him up on the offer of a family, he would have been a different person now. It just crossed my mind that Bae rejecting Hook pushed him back on the path to vengeance and led him to never open up to anyone again till he met Emma and Neal abandoning Emma led her to give up Henry and build up her walls against trusting people!
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
I really hope that Henry (unlike Jared, grr) is able to see that Hook brings out the good in Emma and vice versa. He’s an observant kid and I think he’ll see a change in Hook once he opens up a bit thanks to Emma. How could Henry NOT love hanging out with a pirate??
I have a feeling Henry will take to Hook pretty well. Look how young Bae opened out to him before he knew he was his mother’s lover. Hook has a way with kids and I think he can get through to Henry.
@MysteryKat25 wrote:
They keep reminding us that it’s not set in stone yet and that Emma does have genuine feelings for Neal, but they never promote that. It’s just thrown in to remind us that she has things she needs to deal with just as much as Hook needs to move beyond Milah. I will think it exceptionally cruel if they build it up that much and then they’re just like welllll you were all so distracted by Hook & CS that we got one by you finally. I don’t want to be teased to be distracted,
I so agree. There would be no point in all this CS build-up if they were going to go with ST as endgame. There is no reason to show Emma torn between 2 men, and there is no real reason for her to get into a relationship with Hook unless of course she wants to. And like it has been pointed out, Emma is big on choice.
@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
Wow, you read through each comment??? That’s dedication, my friend. I remember you saying you would, and I am nothing short of impressed! I tip my Jefferson hat off to you
It did take me a while seeing as it is the longest thread on this forum 🙂
@Jasminegirl84 wrote:
So, I am wondering what your take is on predictions of where CS will go in S3. Do you think there will be a love triangle with Neal? Do you think CS will even happen? What would you like to happen? Love to hear your thoughts.
Thank you, Jasmine, I’m really new at this and not very good at expressing my thoughts. But I’ll give it a go.
I actually went on a binge-watching spree with OUAT, viewing both seasons back-to-back and I really need to re-watch if I’m to make acutely observational and analytical posts. But this might do as a first impression. I love OUAT because of its multiple characters and their various shades and there is truly something in it for everyone in terms of the characters they would like or root for. For me, its been Hook this season. So I definitely want to see more Hook and a swashbuckling, sword-weilding, cunning and fearsome pirate Hook, not the bound and gagged one! I read about Colin saying he’d modeled his Hook on the Dread Pirate Roberts but this season the Hook I saw was more of “Dud” pirate Roberts! 😆
Captain Swan seems all set to happen, Colin and JMo have talked about it and A&E have hinted it as well. That said, I do not want it to be rushed. I’m not cheering yet. And I won’t till i know CS is going to be endgame. Granted, there is an undeniable attraction, mutual understanding and plenty of parallels between them. But they both have to conquer some demons before they get into a serious relationship. The writers seem to want us to believe that Emma and Neal still love each other, though the last minute declaration left me with mixed feelings. And A& E keep harping on the fact that Emma “thinks” Neal is dead 🙄 . Making it seem like Hook will be a rebound. But this goes against Emma’s character and whatever we’ve been shown so far about her. She’s not the sort to do casual. She’s guarded with her emotions. She’s still bewildered by the savior thing and the fact that she is magical.
I don’t quite buy the whole sacrifice thing with Neal. He leaves her, perhaps selflessly for the greater good to help her break the curse, but he still lets her go to jail for a crime she didn’t commit. And never tries to find her even after the curse is broken. And this from a guy who knows first hand how much abandonment by a loved one sucks. I still don’t get why or how having Neal in her life would have stopped her from breaking the curse, perhaps they’ll explain that better when they explore Emma’s backstory in S3. But I would want Emma to be with a guy who’d fight for her, fight to be with her and fight alongside her. I do see the merit of sacrifice and selflessness as essential traits for true love, but that said, to me, it just felt like Neal gave up too easy.
I do like Neal, in fact, I love the boy Bae…he was spirited and ballsy and had conviction. The adult Neal to me seems nothing like the boy Bae. I loved Hook and Bae interacting in ASOTM and it broke my heart into itsy-bitsy little pieces when Bae rejected Hook’s offer of being his family. When he said he could never change and Hook’s broken rejoinder “thank you, Bae for reminding me what I’m all about”, I was bawling aloud. (on a side note, this is entirely Colin’s fault for playing Hook so flawlessly, he makes me feel for bad boy Hook. Whoever cast him in the role is a freakin’ genius).
Emma is a strong character and I would want her guy to be someone she can trust to fight to be with her no matter what. That said, it looks like they’ve set us up for a triangle with Nealfire who also shares a past with Hook and who Hook holds a lot of affection for ( i still think he came back for Bae, although my shipper heart wants to believe he did for Emma).
Way I see it, both Hook and Emma have a lot of emotional baggage to deal with right now. Emma having lost Neal and now all caught up in finding Henry, plus having to deal with her magical ability. Hook having let go of his revenge (perhaps temporarily) finally has a chance to grieve his loss of love and the emptiness without it. He has to deal with those emotions before plunging headlong into another relationship, especially with a woman who he knows is probably grieving her loss too. So as much as I want CS to happen and I think they might in S3, I have a feeling they will probably turn to each other for comfort and companionship..and I’m totally cool with that. The sexual undercurrents will probably be there, but neither of them may act upon it. Hook will go through his redemption arc..and may likely be the Hero in Neverland since he’s been here (please please let this happen!) and knows it well..unless Rumple steals his thunder again! (sigh). .
Emma and Hook’s mutual admiration and respect and especially trust needs to be built up and NL offers plenty of opportunity to do just that on their quest for Henry. The realisation of true love has to be slow and sure, the journey will be exciting as we will see the love evolve slowly in real time, something we’ve not seen with other canon couples so far.
In all probability, I see Hook and Emma getting close, understanding and trusting each other, Hook probably falling a little in love with her, and then boom!.. Neal comes back and Emma’s all confused, Hook realises he has to back off, Henry is thrilled to have his family back again and Hook is the lone outsider once more (*sobbing loudly*. I HATE! HATE! HATE triangles! ) He chooses to walk away and Emma is torn. I think Emma’s realisation that she loves Hook has to come later.
I also get the sneaky feeling Rumple may make a deal with him to get out of the way since he wants his son’s happiness. (Rumple simply has to be involved everywhere :D).
If they are indeed building up CS to be endgame, they have to take it slowly and there could be a lot of angst, battling, denial, desperation, frustration.. between themselves and then with the others around them, before they finally come together.
Bae is always going to be important in the story as Henry’s dad and Rumple’s son, but Hook has no connection with any of the central characters except Rumple. And with the revenge plot gone, he has to form a connection with someone in order for him to have a sustained story arc and I think that person will be Emma.Since A&E have said that S3 will be like 2 seasons with a definite beginning, middle and end and they have quite a few back stories to tell and questions to answer and shuttle between EF, NL and SB while they do so, I think they maybe reunited with Neal earlier than with Henry. Neal could find his way into NL somehow, since he also has lived here and he’d want to play a part in rescuing his son from the big bad. We could maybe see some interesting dynamic between Neal and Hook and of course Emma sandwiched between them! I want to see Nealfire and Hook react to each other and their emotions play out. If Hook had indeed helped Bae escape NL, then Bae might feel differently about Hook (though we did not see any evidence of this when he suggested leaving Hook behind in NY, then again, Hook had just attacked his father, so I can understand him wanting to keep a distance)
I also want to see more back stories of Hook, how he and Bae got out of Neverland. My fangirl heart still wants to believe that Hook went back for Bae and helped him escape PP and NL. And of course how he got himself out of NL back to EF before the curse came about. S2 was so unsatisfactory in regard to Hook’s story (possibly because of Colin’s leg) and I really want him to have more screen time in S3.
Hook to me is a beloved character.. I love his cockiness, his bravado, his determination to stop at nothing, his capacity to love deeply. I want him to find his redemption and his peace of mind..most of all I want him to find happiness and acceptance, I believe he will find that with Emma. (and Henry). It’ll be interesting to see how Henry reacts to Hook too, if there is some bonding between them. Rumple took away his love and Bae his dreams of a family and Emma and Henry could be the ones to give him back both! (*more violent sobbing*)
I just hope the makers aren’t just pandering to fans when they keep dropping not-so-subtle hints about CS. I’ve seen this happen in another show where the couple I was shipping shared a kiss just to please the shipper faction and then another ship became canon… I hope, hope, hope with all of my fangirling, shipper heart that this does not happen with CS. ST to me would be playing it safe… conventional, cliched. Whereas CS would be a roller-coaster ride of emotions…exciting, thrilling, sensational and EPIC!
Sorry for the rambling..guess I did have a lot to say after all! 😆
Hi Fellow CS shipmates *waves shyly*
I’m a die-hard CS shipper and I’ve been reading through this entire thread..I actually read every comment and may I say what an incredibly together, talented, intelligent bunch you all are! Am glad to be on board the same ship as you all ..Umm.. I have nothing to add right now to what has already been discussed, dissected and analyzed to death with regard to ST Vs CS, just that I AGREE!!! 🙂 and nothing and no amount of hatred will stop me from shipping CS. They are meant to be monumentally EPIC and I have a feeling we’re in for one of the greatest TV love stories of all time!
Thank you mysteryKat, obisgirl and Jasminegirl.
@Kat: I’ve been painstakingly reading the CaptainSwan thread from page 1 and have only reached the half-way mark so far. Hope to join in when I’ve read through them all. I have to say I’m enjoying it very much.
Hey everyone
I’m a very new Oncer and new to this forum too and am definitely, completely, totally besotted with Colin O’Donoghue..he’s got me falling for him “Hook, line and sinker”! 😉 😆 And he sings too!! Can he get any more perfect?
Not only does the man ooze sexiness from every pore, he carries off his role with so much panache that I cannot help but root for him no matter what he does. And he’s up against a serious badass, powerful Rumple! It doesn’t seem to deter him in the least! He was seriously the best thing in S2 IMO and I cannot wait to see him play the Hero in S3. And oh ..I ship Captain Swan too! 😀
