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One of the moments that we should’ve seen but never did was Neal confronting Rumple about Milah or the fact that Hook dated Neal’s mom and is now dating Neal’s baby mother. What about Belle reuniting with her father? There’s lots of emotional moments we should’ve seen and would’ve liked to have seen but didn’t.
I understand what you’re saying @kfchimera about all the Hook talk in this thread but as @Watcher pointed out, this is the only place we can be critical of Hook without it causing arguments elsewhere on the forum.
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixHonestly, I feel Hook shouldn’t have lived past Neverland. He just serves no purpose. Neverland is his story.
I agree. The weird thing was though, when they were doing the Neverland arc which was the perfect place for Hook to be more central to the story, they kept him out of the limelight more or less, he was only a supporting player. Now that he is irrelevant to the story, he is being pushed more as Emma’s love interest.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI don’t think Rumple will try to kill Emma. I think without the darkness’ influence he’ll have a bit more clarity than he did whilst under the dark curse and won’t necessarily choose the darker path.
I agree with Keb that it is all up in the air.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixYes, you’re right Rumple is a saint and he’s not accountable for anything he does at all. <em class=”d4pbbc-italic” i=”m”>. I’m not sure why I even bother talking.
But the reality is, everyone is accountable for their actions because they were choices they made.
Rumple had a choice in almost all relationships to shift the course into a positive light. You love Rumple, PriceofMagic, don’t deny his agency. He’s flawed. If you at least admit that, maybe I won’t have heart palpitations.
Everyone is accountable for their actions except Hook because Hook gets away with everything. St Hook can do no wrong. I’m not denying Rumple’s agency, but you’re making it seem like Rumple is solely to blame when there are in fact other factors at play.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAnd this made me wonder — was this a ratings-based decision? Apart from Hook’s popularity in and of himself, the way the relationship is being fleshed out is extremely simplistic and deeply unoriginal, up until now
Ratings coupled with the media frenzy around CS and Hook in particular.
I mean, goodness. Does anyone else remember the CRAZY media hype for 305 “Good Form”? Even before 304 aired (an episode all about Rumple and Neal and Pan) we had spoilers about the kiss, we have a picture, we had a gif set and then finally the sneak peek and gave away the whole shebang. Articles every which way about the CS kiss and from Colin about CS in general. When I finally got around to condensing the 305 spoilers into the 305 section, I remember it taking forever because there was so much *stuff*
Or remember back in S2 when we learned that ABC was pushing for more Hook in scenes? They keep suggesting, “put Hook here. Can you put Hook here? We’d like Hook here.”
Also, there are ways to tell that particular romance that subvert the trope — the relationship between Buffy and Spike comes to mind, in that it starts with almost the same bad boy/good girl premise (similarly, the girl is grieving for her lost love), but then does something very different from the expected stereotype. It’s kind of a heartbreaking dysfunctional relationship, but you still root and grieve for the respective characters. By contrast, CS for all its shiny shininess just leaves me completely unfazed — in no small part because, for all his swagger, Hook somehow manages to be astoundingly humorless and un-self-reflexive.
Bingo. I like Spuffy; I actually shipped them while watching BtVS–even though now, grown up, I recognize that it wasn’t as romantic as my younger self thought. But it had consequences! Spike did horrible things (and Buffy did some pretty horrible things right back) and they both had to pay for it. It wasn’t rug swept. It was dealt with and it wasn’t treated like the was the purest form of love in the history of ever! It was dark and twisted and the writers made sure you knew that. Even after it began to go stand in the sun for a bit in the end (because I need to use a vampire metaphor apparently) it still wasn’t sold as a honest to heaven love story.
When Buffy finally told Spike she loved him in the last episode, he turned around and said “no you don’t but thanks for saying it”, he recognised that what they had was never the real deal.
Interestingly, Spike was supposed to die in season 2 but he proved so popular with the audience and fans that they kept him alive. However this presented a problem for the writers as they couldn’t keep Spike a villain trying to kill Buffy because why wouldn’t Buffy stake him hence why Spike got the chip in his head to prevent him being evil and essentially putting him on the side of good to fight alongside the Scooby gang.
It seems like something similar happened with Hook, he proved popular so they didn’t want to get rid of him, but they couldn’t keep him a villain so they made him turn good. Ironically, the Neverland arc should’ve been the ideal place to push Hook front and centre and let him shine but for some reason they didn’t. The thing is though, Hook became irrelevant storywise after Neverland and is role now is literally Emma’s love interest. The difference between Buffy and Once though is that Buffy had Spike earn his acceptance into the group whereas Once just handed it to Hook on the platter.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixMy point is if Rumple listened to Milah’s concerns in the Crocodile and moved, she wouldn’t have left with Hook. Because if he had, their marriage would have had a chance to be fixed.
I disagree. I think Rumple’s and Milah’s marriage was on an irreversible downward trajectory the moment he returned from the ogre war and she said he should’ve died instead of returning as a coward. Rumple and Milah were miserable, moving wouldn’t have fixed anything because the problems were within the relationship itself not their location.
Milah would’ve left with Hook anyway, because for Milah, Hook was everything Rumple was not.
Also, Rumple’s hesitance to move can be traced back to his childhood and his father. Rumple suggested moving with his father to a place nobody knew them, and look how that turned out for him. The dialogue between ChildRumple/Malcolm and Rumple/Milah has a lot of similarities and mirroring. For Rumple, it’s history repeating itself.
Same thing with Bae. If Rumple listened to what Bae wanted, he wouldn’t have gone to great lengths to seek out the Blue Fairy. Bae said to him, ‘You know, you could just give up the power’ and he made an excuse to keep it.
Rumple believed he needed the power to protect Bae and that without it, he’d go back to being the weak spinner that everyone looked down on. Young Bae is a bit of an idealist and didn’t always see the bigger picture.
With Belle, if Rumple had been more honest with her (because honesty is the huge issue in that relationship), she wouldn’t have left him multiple times.
Rumple does need to learn to be more honest with Belle, and he has made progress on that front over the course of the 4 seasons. However, he does still have trust issues that he struggles to overcome much like Emma in the early seasons. Rumple seems to endure a lot of history repeating itself so he’s almost waiting for Belle to leave him. He loves her so he’s afraid that if he reveals to much to her, if she sees the real him, that she’ll leave him like Milah and Cora did before. That fear is what causes him to hold back, and holding back is what causes him to push Belle away.
Rumple alone had the power to fix what was wrong if he simply listened to what these women & Bae wanted from him instead of ignoring them.
Rumple has deep-seated issues stemming from his childhood and abandonment by his father. For Rumple, there is a lot of history repeating itself so there is no easy fix-it.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixLOL to Sean. What I like most about Sean in these sorts of interviews is that he’s not afraid to address things head on particularly ship-related stuff. A lot of the other cast members tend to skirt around ship questions because they’re almost afraid to give a proper answer and in some ways I think that makes the shipping drama worse within the fandom.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixMilah’s leaving him only confirmed to him how worthless and unloveable he was.
Except Belle is not Milah and she’s not Cora. Belle was never going to make the same decisions that both Milah and Cora did. All Belle wanted was him; just him. Belle was never going to choose a better life or make power a bigger priority than him, (which is what both Milah and Cora, did). That stuff never mattered to her. All she cared about was him.
I’ve said it before but I’ll say it again. It isn’t that Rumple is difficult to love; it’s that he makes it difficult for other people to love him. There’s a big difference there. The difference is that he keeps on putting up these barriers/creating complications, to make it harder for other people to love him. Rumple is his own worst enemy because he is often the source of most every major complication in a relationship he is involved in.
It was this way with Milah, Baelfire and now with Belle.
Belle isn’t Cora or Milah, but that doesn’t mean Rumple doesn’t still have insecurities as a result of those two relationships. The same could be said for Emma, Hook isn’t Neal or Walsh but Emma still had her insecurities that she had to overcome.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixOkay, whatever.
Back to my original question, do Rumple and Belle still share true love – despite the fact he is not cursed anymore?
Keep in my mind, the only true love’s kiss they shared was not a complete true love’s kiss. Belle’s kiss only started to change but him but it wasn’t a complete effect.
I think they do share true love hence why the kiss was working, but both parties have to believe. Rumple doesn’t truly believe he’s lovable. Rumple truly loves Belle and Belle truly loves Rumple but Rumple doesn’t believe Belle truly loves him.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixNo I didn’t.
I said they DON’T stab themselves with a needle because they love it, they do it because they need their fix. As in love is NOT the reason they stab themselves with a needle, the need to get their fix is the reason they stab themselves with the needle.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
