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And while I am no CS fan, I do think the ship is being written better than you do. But if you say that CS fans can’t hear anything negative about Hook, I think you could say the same for SF fans who are quick to find things wrong with Hook and dwell on them. It works both ways. You can’t say there is bias on one side and not on the other. My whole point was that other characters on this show get more passes, or at least their actions don’t get dwelled on as much as Hook’s, it seems. One example was when Hook took the book out this season and reminded Emma of who she was and that she can do anything she puts her mind to. Many fans were annoyed bc they felt it was just Hook being Emma’s lapdog again and only serving to act as her supportive boyfriend, when in fact, the scene was actually really sweet and continued to put Hook in a great light this year. But let’s say it was Robin telling that to Regina (like he did all the time and literally only served as her lapdog for years), many fans would have loved it. Robin was just as boring as Hook but people on this thread loved Robin and hate Hook. I had people tell me they shouldn’t have killed off Robin just bc he was poorly written and was boring. I was told that just because the writers didn’t flesh out his story and only used him as a support shoulder for Regina, that it didn’t mean he needed to die becasue it sends a bad message to families watching the show. Ok, well Hook is basically serving the same role here with Emma. Never once were people this annoyed over Robin’s role until AFTER he died. But with Hook, it’s completely different. And if you think that Robin getting a pass and Hook getting more scrutiny has nothing to do with inherent bias within the SF fan club who simply don’t care for Hook bc he’s not Neal, then I think we aren’t being honest with ourselves. And I think THAT is just one instance of the double standard Mike is referring to that can get quite annoying for people who are fans of Hook as a character.
I used to absolutely hate Hook but this season, I actually kind of like him. He genuinely apologised to Belle for what he did to her and even offered to help her out, not because it benefitted him in any way, but because he genuinely wanted to help. THIS is the Hook we needed to see several seasons ago before Emma got together with him. I think the main issue with CS is the build up. There was no reason why Emma would’ve gotten with Hook when she did, other events which should’ve been important to Emma were ignored such as Neal’s death because that should’ve had an impact on Emma, in general the writers were lazy with developing Hook and rather than show him progress, they just told us he was redeemed. Considering the way he was introduced, more effort needed to be put in to make his “redemption” believable. Also, in the early days of CS, it did seem like Emma was spending all her time exclusively with Hook and other people such as Henry got forgotten. In fact this season, I’ve actually liked Hook more than Emma. When Belle came into the diner looking for a room to stay in, Emma disparaged Granny’s rooms (which was uncalled for IMO) yet did nothing to offer Belle an alternative place to stay. It was Hook who actually stepped up and offered Belle alternative accommodation. For the past couple of seasons, Hook has kind of been Emma’s lapdog but this season he does seem to be moving beyond Emma’s vicinity so good for him!
Robin was a wasted opportunity because he never moved past being Regina’s lapdog. For me OQ was more badly written than CS. At least with CS in the episode “Tallahassee” you can see the chemistry. With OQ, Robin had just literally met Regina, we find out later that EQ was responsible for Marian’s death, and yet Robin is completely unbothered by the fact that Regina was the EQ. Even though the audience knows Regina has changed, Robin shouldn’t know that so it would’ve been more natural for him to show some initial distrust of her, at least until she saved Roland from the flying monkey. The relationship could then be built from there. As it was, Robin immediately fancied Regina and what made it look even worse was that Ginny was visibly pregnant in the first episode of 3B so it looked like Robin helped Regina up but left a heavily pregnant woman lying on the floor.
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixAnother problem after S3, like many said already here, the scenes are not natural, feel forced, is possible to see that the cast doesn`t believe in what they are saying or doing anymore, like there is no need bc in the next episode they will retcon the previous one.
Agreed. I think this is most clearly displayed by RC. When you look at interviews of him from the first couple of series he actually answers questions about Rumple’s motivations. When he is asked the same question in later season interviews, he just shrugs and say “don’t know”. Wasn’t it rumoured he was just doing this season and that was it?
Also, the timeline is the more horrible thing i ever saw, being the biggest examples , Henry age that every season they contradict, however they keep the year of SF meeting as 2001, which makes no sense Henry having 10 in the pilot, 11 in spring on 2012, then they hint his birthday is in August and after one year in 2013 has 13 years even tho only 2 years have pass since the pilot then that also means that he should have 12 and not 13, well he should have 11 if we count 9 months pregnancy, but moving on, this timeline also means that if we take 1 year on EF/NY, all these characters only know each other one year.
Henry is too young for a relationship. There is an easy logical way they could’ve physically aged Henry up without having to do time skips- use the Sanderson Sisters from Hocus Pocus. Their grand plan was to steal the lives of children which caused the kids to age whilst the Sanderson sisters became youthful, have Henry be their victim but is saved before the spell can be completed. Hey presto, you have an aged up Henry.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThen came season 3A and I was willing to forgive them about the problems of season 2B. I see that this season is not among the favorable seasons and it’s a shame, it really is underated. What is so great about 3A is that it had a strong theme of family and parenthood that held the plot and characters really tight, we saw it in Emma and Snow’s conversations and how Emma feels that she’s a lost girl, we saw it in Emma’s drive to save her son (“I choose Henry”), we saw it in Regina in “Save Henry” (“All I have is him”), we saw it in Neal and Henry, and the parallels to Rumple and Baelfire and of course Pan and Rumple. This season was great on its own and in how it connects to the overall thems of the entire series (1-3A) which ultimately gave the most satisfying and the best conclusion of all the seasons.
I disagree to an extent. I think 3A and the Neverland arc had potential to be fantastic but instead the writers squandered it. CS vs SF became the main plotline, it was dark all the time so you could barely see what was going on despite Neverland having been seen in daylight before, they didn’t explore Baelfire’s time in Neverland despite that being the perfect opportunity to do it also you’d get Hook’s back story as well considering that’s the tale he originated from. For me, Neverland could’ve been amazing but it wasn’t so it’s the season with the most wasted opportunity.
Then came 3B and it went downhill ever since. My biggest problem is the way they handled Neal. In the beginning of the season we had Regina teasing Emma about Hook being her “boyfriend” and Snow said “she just lost Neal”, Emma’s reaction was “how can you be so insensitive after I lost someone I love and care about”, but when Neal actually died, approximately 3-4 days after according to the shows timeline she got together with Hook, how is this consistent in anyway?! You want them to be together? Fine, but do it organically, otherwise ot doesn’t make sense. Keep them apart long enough for Emma to grieve and for Hook to make amends with the people he hurt like Archie and Belle, and perhaps even Rumple.
Agreed. The writers throwing Neal under the bus and not dealing with the ramifications of his death is the biggest mistake the writers ever made on this show. Baelfire was the whole reason for the show to begin with.
But that’s not the only thing, it seemed like they didn’t want to pay attention to details in order for things to make sense in the larger scope of the series so we get weird stuff like Cora being betrothed to Leopold even when it didn’t make sense with 118, we get splitting heart “twist” even if it doesn’t align with what we know about magical hearts and it contradicts the dead is dead rule, we get scenes like the heroes starting shooting flying monkeys, which we learned (in the same episode) that those are innocent people who got turned into flying monkeys by Zelena, and then no reaction by them after learning that they killed innocent people (these peasants nobody cares about).
The moment there were other ways to get to our world, the show betrayed its original premise. The dark curse was supposed the only way hence why Rumple spent his time trying to create it. The “heroes” became very unlikeable from season 3B onwards. Snow was the worst because she became completely thick and was a bit of a harpy.
But the worst thing is how they turned Emma into a huge mcguffin that never had any significant role in the arc, except her becoming Hook’s girlfriend. They never needed to cast the DC again, all they needed to do was give Regina a pep talk and then she’s good to defeat Zelena (that’s what actually happened). Emma got shoved aside in order to focus on the fan favorites Regina and Hook.
Agreed. In fact, if Regina had just got her act in gear, the events of 3B could’ve been avoided. Also Regina never did that particular magic again, it was such a crappy plot device. The split seasons did not do OUAT any favours at all when the writers tried to condense a 22 episode arc into 11 episodes. The writing became sloppy, the story became plot driven rather than character driven and overall everything just became shallow with no real depth to it.
By the end of season the forcibly got the characters to where they wanted them to be and now they go through a recycled character arc that gets resetted each season, they ignore past events, they ignore what the characters used to be and what motivated them like Rumple who was turned into a different character entirely, or Snow and Charming who suddenly have no reaction towards Ingrid, a woman who raised their long lost daughter for a time, which not being able to raise their child was a key element in their characterization and arc.
Agreed. There was no time for the characters to actually emote any sort of feeling.
The showrunners gave into fanservice and their decision making is based on that, the fans want CS -kill Neal and pretend like he never existed, the fans want SQ – lots and lots of queerbaiting, the fans like Disney – Frozen and Brave fanfics with ridiculous blue hair for Hades. Robin is boring (because they didn’t make the effort to develope him properly) – Kill him off, fans are angry that Robin was killed – bring him back.
I hated Anna in the Frozen arc and the fact that it became so Frozen focussed makes Season 4A the weakest for me.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix(I mean, i dont think henry hates hook. I just dont think henry would prefer hook with his mother. But now that he is,hes gotta deal. Regardless, Henry liking Hook doesnt address any of my complaints about him)
I think Henry not liking Hook should’ve been an issue that was explored more and would actually be a NATURAL problem for CS to overcome. If Henry didn’t like Hook, that would’ve caused problems for CS because Emma would be torn between Henry and Hook and, as her son, Henry would always come first for Emma. It would make sense for Hook to want to ingratiate himself with Henry because he comes as part of the package.
Actually seeing Henry start to accept Hook after Hook’s worked so had to earn his trust would be more of a satisfying payoff than Hook being somewhat automatically accepted.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI guess Sasha is going to die in the Walking Dead then.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI actually don’t hate Hook this season and I used to absolutely loathe him. I like that he actually apologised properly to Belle for what he did and tried to help her.
My main complaint about Hook now is that how he is behaving now is how he should’ve been behaving a couple of seasons ago. Better late than never I suppose.
I get Watcher’s point about how Hook’s storyline for the past few seasons is all about Emma. Take Emma away and what purpose does Hook have? Neverland should’ve been Hook’s time to shine and showcase his “hidden depths” from what we saw in season 2. Instead he was just “there”. Neverland was such a wasted opportunity.
Hook’s actions were whitewashed quite a bit, especially in comparison to Regina’s and Rumple’s misdeeds, and this was the fault of the writing. The writers got lazy and only this season have they started putting the effort in.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixIf Regina didn’t cast the curse, then theoretically any character who died in Storybrooke isn’t dead. So Graham, Pan, Felix, Johanna, and Ingrid are all still alive.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixA fairly decent finale.
Love the fact that RumBelle are finally putting aside their differences and working together for the sake of their son.
Snowing don’t look old in the wish world, they just have grey hair. Surely some prosthetics could’ve been used to age Josh and Ginny.
The logical inconsistency- If Bae was around to have Henry with Emma (Glad they didn’t forget him) then why would Rumple still need the dark curse? Its original purpose was to get him to the land with out magic so he could find Bae.
This episode does kind of feel like it’s stealing the wish dimension idea from Buffy. Even Hook seems like he has taken on some Spike-esque mannerisms.
If the show does go with Shady Blue Fairy and that is the big reveal then I’ll be quite impressed. It won’t make up for the load of crap we’ve had to deal with in the past few seasons but it’s a step in the right direction.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThe ratings for 6×10 should prove interesting. We keep bouncing back and forth between fractional and not.
If that’s the case I think that either this season or potentially next season will be the last.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixJust watched this episode. It’s a decent episode and makes me excited for the next one. Loved EdR and RC’s acting.
I’m convinced Blue is shady.
Belle’s line “I didn’t want you to be perfect, I just wanted you to try” comes across as she wanted Rumple to try to be perfect. That may not have been the intention but it could’ve been phrased slightly differently.
Regina is such a hypocrite- Snowing forgave her after everything yet she can’t forgive Zelena for Hades killing Robin. So she can’t forgive Zelena for the thing she didn’t do yet she’s not bothered by Zelena raping Robin?
Is this show trying to destroy their best characters? First Rumple now Regina.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
