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At the end of the day…I still say Belle knew exactly what she was getting herself into, and knew whom she was dealing with… “How Can I Help?” well, that’s more or less saying “I’m in.”
No it’s not. “How can I help?” is not the same as saying “Yes Regina, take my heart and do with it as you please”. There are several clear facts:
1. Regina had Belle’s heart.
2. Regina threatened to crush Belle’s heart to show Rumple she meant business and even squeezed it, which we’ve seen on the show causes the person pain.Regina is in the wrong in this situation. The question is how much in the wrong? Did Belle give consent? If not, then Regina is 100% in the wrong with what she did. If Belle did give consent, how far did that consent extend?
[adrotate group="5"]All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixThe author was inside the book behind a door (that was clearly a Jefferson hat door) Does that count? If it is just normal squid ink then it is awfully convenient that Hook just so happens to have some when the heroes need it most.
I hope the ink is something more but you know what this show is like with plot devices.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think they’ll get the piano to play Tale as old as time for the iconic dance scene. His role in the movie might be coming up with it. Are they going to have Mrs Potts in the movie? Considering they’ve got Gaston, I doubt they would have another villain on top of that.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixEmma didn’t kill Cruella, gravity did.
If Emma had done the exact same thing, but in a flat field, Cruella would’ve lived.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI hate to play the devil’s advocate on that one because it’s a touchy issue, but by this logic, whether 17 or 18, if Enchanted Kingdom is at all modeled on the kind of Medieval Europe that the image of monarchic sovereignty you present comes from, then marriageable age is also way way younger. A 17 or 18 year old would have probably been considered a grown woman, and would be expected to have had children by then.
Cora did comment to Henry Sr that Regina was in danger of becoming an “old maid”.
Henry. Has no survival skills! After how many times being kidnapped?!
Henry is to OAAT as Daphne is to Scooby Doo
A fairly accurate comparison although Daphne did start getting kidnapped less in the later/revamped seasons of Scooby Doo.
My theory is that this was never Belle’s heart. I believe it was either Regina’s or (more likely) one from the vault. I think Belle was was playing along with Regina to fool Rumple. I also think Belle was fully aware that she told Rumple that Will kissed better, and she derived pleasure from getting back at him.
That was definitely Belle’s heart Regina had. It’s not in Belle’s nature to be cruel.
One thing about it…we were shown that Leopold was a very jealous man, (The Genie Episode), and he clearly forbid Regina from ever stepping foot outside what’s technically now half of her kingdom, (Quite a Common Fairy). No matter how anyone wants to spin it, Regina was an eighteen year old prisoner who was forced to marry a man thrice her age, and mother the girl who ratted her out.
I don’t remember Leopold forbidding Regina from doing anything.
Leopold seemed like quite a neglectful husband and Regina complained that he didn’t love her like he loved his first wife but I don’t think he was ever abusive towards Regina. Also we only had Regina’s word that Leopold confined her to his chambers.
And Leopold….despite this great king we saw, we also saw that this man was possessive…very possessive and quite sick if you ask me because why would you want to marry the daughter of your ex-fiancée, not to mention you’re old enough to be her grandfather????? It was more than just a mother to Snow….Leo wanted himself a younger woman. XD
What were Leopold’s exact words to Sidney?
Leopold was a neglectful husband certainly but how much did Regina lie and manipulate the situation to make Leopold look bad so Sidney would kill him for her?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix@obisgirl, did you fancy Ewan McGregor as Obi-Wan Kenobi in Phantom Menace?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix1. I don’t think that was Belle’s heart in Regina’s hand. Usually, they like to show Regina yanking out a heart. It’s a good visual effect, and a nice squishy sound. The fact that Regina wasn’t actually shown taking Belle’s heart suggests that maybe it’s somebody else’s. Maybe it’s Regina’s heart. Or maybe it’s from the vault. If that’s true, then WOW does Belle have nerve. “Will kisses better”. Ha! Might have felt good. Also, if it’s somebody else’s heart, that’s very nervy of Regina, having failed so spectacularly with the fake book page just recently.
That was definitely Belle’s heart. The scene was cut to leave it ambiguous as to whether or not Belle gave her consent for Regina to take her heart.
2. I don’t think killing Cruella will necessarily mean that Emma goes to the dark side. Killing a murderous maniac who has a gun to your kid’s head, and who is holding him on the edge of a cliff is justified as defense of one’s child. Emma didn’t know that Cruella couldn’t kill. Emma was acting to protect Henry. However, I think now that the Charmings, Emma, and Henry are all together, they could pretend that Emma is dark side now, so that Emma can go in undercover with Rumple.
Emma shouldn’t really go dark over protecting her child, but the writers will use it as the way she goes dark because of the whole “heroes don’t kill” mantra.
3. I don’t think Henry’s middle name is Daniel. I think that was a signal.
Totally. And if it is Henry’s middle name, then that’s a missed opportunity for the “Something is not right; play along” ploy.
I think Daniel is Henry’s middle name and the fact that Regina used his middle name was the signal. It’s the whole middle name rule.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think the moment the author said about being careful not to spill the ink, it was obvious the ink was going to be spilt. It’s tempting fate like saying “at least it can’t get any worse” or “I’ll be right back” or “everything’s going to be just fine” etc.
I have a crack theory that Rumple’s plan to corrupt Emma has nothing to do with whatever plans he has for the author but that he’s actually priming her to take over as the dark one. Both Rumple’s and Emma’s “start of darkness” involved them doing something immoral to save their child.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixWhat we saw was Belle asking: “How can I help?” and Regina saying, “I’m glad you asked,” with a bit of the old evil queen’s glint in her eyes.
Obviously people are interpreting it differently, and even the sources beyond the show are reporting differences. Here’s how I read it:
Regina then immediately took Belle’s heart, perhaps even seeing the question as consent (Regina has interesting ideas sometimes). She did not waffle about and say, well, if I had your heart, I could blah blah blah. That’s NOT Regina’s style; the ONLY times we’ve seen her waffling about taking a heart since the events of the Doctor were when Snow & Charming cast the curse, in Neverland when Operation Save Henry was debating whether they should use the Lost Boy that way, and when she took Zelena/Marian’s heart to save her life. All three of those times the heart was being used more or less for Heroic moves…when it’s for something SHE wants, she’s far less hesitant. And this was NOT exactly a heroic move–yes, she wants to save Robin, but she also wanted vengeance against Rumple for upping the ante that way. (I do love the echoes of their old power struggle.)
Beyond that, Belle does NOT like giving up her autonomy, would not want to be used as a weapon against Rumple, and certainly wouldn’t consent to having Regina kill her to get her way. Whatever Belle would have agreed to in this case, however much she trusts Regina, she’s not about to say “Sure, you can use me as a puppet to torture Rumple and kill me if he doesn’t obey.”
I agree 100%
I do believe, however (and again it’s frustratingly vague) that Regina’s commands were first for Belle to summon Rumple to find out what his plan is, and then didn’t kick in again until after the kiss. Everything before that felt like genuine Belle; everything after was CLEARLY Regina toying with Rumple.
I agree to an extent. Surely if Regina had commanded Belle to go to the wishing well, summon Rumple, etc, Belle would’ve had a “What am I doing here?” moment because she didn’t make the conscious decision to do those things? I wonder if Regina took Belle’s heart then asked her to talked to Rumple so Belle thought she was acting of her own free will up to the kiss then Regina puppetted her.
At best, I think Regina took Belle’s heart without asking but then didn’t control Belle until after a kiss so the glimmer of hope for reconciliation is real but then Regina threatened to crush Belle’s heart which is wrong.
However at the same time, if Belle still genuinely feels that way for Rumple then why is she with Will?
I hope Adam will eventually clarify the lines here for us, because it’s going to become a curtains thing along with all the consent issues of Graham. In other words, UGLY.
I hopes so too. Clarification is needed which means it probably won’t happen.
Neither Rumple nor Regina are going about things in the right way; both are falling into the usual patterns of their villainous histories. Both are justified in feeling ire at the other. I’m still a little miffed at Robin for violating his code and flipflopping, but definitely in THIS part of the story he and Belle are victims of Rumple, Regina, and Zelena’s long-standing rivalries.
I agree. I’m convinced Zelena is either going to be pregnant or fake a pregnancy in order to cause more drama for OQ. Robin will end up with Regina because the Zelarian deception can’t continue forever but Robin’s “code” won’t let him abandoned his “unborn child” no matter how much he despises Zelena.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI was thinking about this last night. We only have 4 episodes left for this season in which there could be a pregnancy reveal. Considering Regina and Emma are only leaving town next episode, that doesn’t seem much time for Regina to reveal she’s pregnant when there have been no hints of a pregnancy previously in this season. No hints of feeling unwell, no can’t stand certain smells, etc. Nothing that could even hint to a possible pregnancy. Regina suddenly coming out and saying “I’m pregnant” is a little out of the blue. Considering the 6 week time gap between now and the OQ crypt sex, if Regina was pregnant, she would know by now or at least suspect. We as the audience would’ve been let in on Regina suspecting this even if the other characters weren’t. I don’t think Regina is pregnant.
However, I will put 50 cookies on Zelena either being pregnant or at least pretending to be pregnant. Robin chose Zelarian over Regina 6 weeks ago. We’ve not seen Zelarian for 6 weeks timeline wise apart from the phone call so a lot could’ve happened in that time including a pregnancy or at least to realistically fake one. It would also explain why Robin and Zelena are back in Storybrooke.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
