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All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixSimply put, we have this long-standing convention in our (lets call it Euro-American) culture that goes something like this: “man = strong, manly, and dangerous / woman = weak, pliable, and gentle / man active (RARRGH!), woman passive (*swooon*)”
I agree. I think whilst society has changed the way it views women, the way society still views men is somewhat stuck. As you said, our culture dictates that men are supposed to be “strong” “manly” “brave” etc, basically men get belittled by other men and women if they don’t fit that stereotype.
Men get told to “be a man” or “man up” if they are perceived to be weak in some way yet women don’t get told to “woman up”.
To refer this back to Once, Rumple is that guy that everyone looks down on because he doesn’t fit the view of what men should be like. In fact Milah even uses the “Be a man” phrase to belittle Rumple. Contrast this to Hook who is meant to be the epitome of masculinity: He’s strong, sexually confident, charismatic, brave, etc etc.
To refer this back to Emma, Emma started as an independent woman who made her own choices in life, she went against the traditional stereotype of what a woman should be like (a stereotype that continues to this day since a character who doesn’t fit into the “little woman” stereotype is considered ground breaking. We are now seeing a similar sort of thing with depicting LGBT in the media). CS wouldn’t have worked with season 1 Emma because she wouldn’t have folded to the “masculinity” of Hook. However, the audience/fans/abc (not all but a vocal some at least) demanded CS so CS had to happen. However, Hook was in danger of being emasculated if he was paired with season 1 Emma, and that couldn’t happen because so much of his character was built around how much of a “man” he was. Therefore, Emma had to fill that traditional woman role so Hook could come and save her because that’s what a “man” does.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixHere’s a guy who was a horrible man. And clearly still has plenty of issues to be resolved, issues the darkness exploited. So his actions were going to be the worst of any DO.
Here’s the part that baffles me. If the reason Hook’s actions are so bad as the DO, specifically worse than Emma and Rumple, is because he himself was “Horrible”, why the hell would you root for someone like that to end up with Emma?
I don’t want to get into Hook discussion too much, but it always seemed like Hook was nice to Emma because he wanted her. He tolerated her family because that would put him in her good graces. However, we have seen how unkind he can be to people that aren’t going to affect his standing with Emma as recently as season 4 eg using Belle to blackmail Rumple, roughing up Will for accidentally spilling water on Emma.
If Hook being horrible is the reason why his actions as the dark one are so bad, then why should the audience root for Emma’s relationship with a horrible guy? Just because Hook is nice to Emma and her family because it gets him what he wants doesn’t make him a good person. In fact I think I think it’s quite telling that the moment Hook feels that Emma has betrayed him/displeased him, he turns on her quite viciously.
The darkness may tempt a person to give in to the dark path but it is the person’s choice to give in. We saw Emma fight it until she chose to give into her selfishness of not wanting to let Hook go. Even though Rumple gave in to the darkness early on, we still saw his good side eg saving the children from the ogre war, giving Belle the chance to leave. Hook chose to give into the darkness because it gave him “permission” to be dark. Just like his “cursed” hand gave him permission even though there was nothing wrong with it.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixPerhaps ABC are starting to wonder whether or not it’s worth keeping OUAT. Where once it used to be a universally praised show (there were a few minor issues but nothing major overall), as the seasons have progressed it’s gotten a lot more criticism for the messages it is sending out and the decline in storytelling. Some fans have actually left the show because of it, and if the fans are leaving that bodes ill for the show’s future.
Also A&E said they had enough material for 5 seasons so maybe this is it for the show. How can you outdo a god of the underworld as a villain?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixIf Rumple is thrown under the bus and killed off because “he’s a villain”, the show is dead to me. If it continues beyond that point it’s a zombie.
This show would have been so much better if Rumple would have stayed dead since 3A. In a way i am hoping that Rumple does die in the end and Neal would live. This, more than anything else is Rumple’s happiest ending. If a character could talk, i would tell you to ASK him. What was your happy ending? He would say: saving Bae and Belle and giving my life.
I think he would prefer to live with his family if he had the chance.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixI think Emma progressed up to about 3A then began to regress when CS started being pushed to the forefront. CS doesn’t serve Emma’s character, Emma serves CS.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix– Favorite Episode of the Season
Skin Deep without a doubt. Not only was it the birth of RumBelle, but it added so many layers to Rumple’s character. IMO Skin Deep is not only the best episode of the season but of the entire series.
– Favorite Character Introduced
Rumple. He was such a complicated and layered character that wasn’t good but neither was he evil. You never knew what side he was on, he could be your greatest ally or your worst enemy.
– Favorite Moment of the Season
It’s hard to pick a single moment because there is so many great ones across various episodes so I’m going to pick a scene from Skin Deep, where Rumple is in his tower, spots Belle returning, runs down to his spinning wheel then tries to act all cool about it when Belle comes in which leads to RumBelle’s TLK (before everything went wrong)
– Since this was when the original Dark Curse happened, there was much more of a contrast between the Fairy Tale Land flashbacks and Present-Day Storybrooke. The residents in Storybrooke had no recollection of their Fairy Tale Land lives, nor was there magic in their town. Once everybody regained their memories and magic was introduced in Storybrooke, that all changed. In hindsight, what do you think worked and didn’t work about these drastic changes? Should the curse have lasted longer? Should magic have been left out of Storybrooke?
I don’t think the curse should’ve lasted longer but I think it needed the 22 episodes before it could’ve been broken. However, I think they could’ve had Emma starting to believe a little earlier than they did, such as she starts noticing little things that can’t be explained away, and she only fully believes in the finale because I thought Emma’s change from non-believer to believer happened a little too quick literally within the opening two minutes of the finale.
I think bringing magic back to Storybrooke was a good idea because it complicated things for the heroes and upped the stakes. Rumple and Regina wouldn’t have been as much of a potential threat if they didn’t have magic.
– Regarding this Season, has your opinion changed at all looking back?
I think season 1 remains the best season of OUAT because it feels like it was planned out from start to finish. It’s a full season based on one storyline with minor plotlines happening that serve the overall story arc eg. Emma saving Ashley’s baby from Gold led to her owing him a favour which was then utilised in season 2. It was consistent. Things were introduced which then became relevant later rather than the current phase of plot devices for all which are never used or mentioned again. Also season 1 was such a satisfying season, it didn’t feel rushed. The writers weren’t trying to fit 22 episodes worth of story into 11 episodes so characters were more fleshed out because there was time to do so.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixSomeone made a gif set of the Disney princesses reacting to Snow’s “death”
Have to laugh at Mulan’s reaction.
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix@WR Just wanted to say I love your new Regina banner with the flames. Did you make it yourself?
All magic comes with a price!
Keeper of FelixLet’s not confuse horrible writing and plot with Emma as to whether she is a strong character anymore. That’s all I’ll say on the above quote I picked out.
How do you separate the two–Emma and writing/plot? You can’t. Emma isn’t some independent variable in the equation who can freely act without regard to plot and writing. She doesn’t stand outside the plot and writing. She, the fictional character, is affected by both. How she is presented as a character is determined by said horrible writing and plot. She’s not in a vacuum. You can’t separate out character from plot and how the writers literally write both of those.
I kind of agree and disagree about this. The writing/plot of the first few seasons built up Emma’s character so we take our view of how Emma should be/ what she should do from that. The writing/plot in 3B onwards particularly for Emma has been awful ad we say that Emma is acting OOC.
In order for Emma to be out of character, she would’ve had to become her own independent notion in order for people to be able to say she’s out of character. So whilst obviously plot makes her act a certain way, the character is bigger than the plot in the sense that people would say Emma Swan would not do this.
Does that make sense? I’ve had a long day and am running on only 4 hours of sleep.
I think she knew that the man telling her those things was not the same person, and that in some degree, it was the darkness talking
Here’s my problem with this. We don’t see Rumple talking to Belle this way. We don’t see Emma talking to Hook or even Henry this way. With Rumple, he is awkward and even tender at some moments. He even listens to her dreams of adventure and being a hero and admires her for it, not belittle her for it. He goes to save her from the Queens of Darkness. With Emma, we see her trying to seduce Hook and even trying to explain things about how she and this curse work now. At one point she even dresses like she did on his first date and recreates their date. She comes when he calls, she is there when he tries to jump of buildings. There is a problem with saying “the darkness made him do it” because the darkness did not make Rumple or Emma do that.
I agree with this and think that is one of the problems with the show at the moment. The writers can’t excuse Hook for his actions as the dark one yet hold Rumple responsible for his actions as the dark one and label him as a villain because of it. Either Hook knew exactly what he was doing or Rumple wasn’t in control and it was the dark one that did all those things. To hold one accountable and not the other is hypocritical and this cascades down on to the “heroes” which presents the danger of making them unlikeable because of “their” hypocrisy.
The writers more of less gave Hook a free pass to say whatever he wanted to Emma–things that absolutely showed his sociopathic tendencies–but without any recompense. Emma does not call him on it either during the encounter or after, either to him, privately, or to her family. What does this mean for Emma? Well I think we can agree that Emma was a fairly underwhelming and Not-So-Dark Dark One. Meaning that the Vintage! Emma was still in there. That Emma sought justice. Our first meeting of her is tracking down a guy who ran out on his wife. She is particularly touched on guys who do wrong to women (probably stemming from the trauma of Neal) and makes them pay. For her to disregard what Hook says or to dismiss it is troubling. Love clouds judgement but it shouldn’t change something that was a huge make up of your core, not to the negative. And if it does, then we need to consider what kind of love that is and what kind of person the character is.
I agree. I think Belle is a “strong woman” compared to Emma because Belle actually stands up for what she believes in and calls Rumple out when he crosses the line. Belle banished Rumple over the town line for the good of the town even though it was hard for her to do so. Whilst Belle’s scenes are now predominantly based around Rumple, it’s based around the fact that Rumple has to lie to Belle because he knows that, no matter how much she loves him, she won’t stand for his nonsense.
Emma doesn’t stand up what she believes in, she doesn’t call Hook out when he crosses the line. Hook just tells Emma not to worry her pretty little head and Emma goes along with it. In real life, that sort of relationship would throw up a lot of red flags. Emma has become a lot less connected to her family, Hook has literally become her world. She feels she has to march into the UW to bring him back because she can’t continue living without him. She is even dragging her son to the UW with her when earlier on in the very same episode she told Rumple to stop talking about it because it was “scaring Henry”. Emma has become blinded to everything going on around her because all she can see is Hook and nothing else.
Then there are the things he says without knowing he’s the DO that are pretty disturbing: like the liked her walls, an aspect of Emma that she herself is trying to overcome herself, with the help of her family, friends, and son. Hook can help…but he takes sole responsibility for knocking them down (I liked your walls, I liked that I knocked them down). And she lets him. She doesn’t even voice anything about Henry–the person who should get sole credit, if anyone, for toppling Jericho.
Again I agree. The thing is CS could’ve been a golden opportunity for the writers to show that even “strong” women can find themselves in an unhealthy relationship rather than reverting to the “helpless victim” stereotype. That could’ve been a positive message that that sort of thing can happen to anybody rather than just a particular type of person. Instead the writers choose to play CS as true love which is concerning.
There is also the incredibly problematic issue that whenever the darkness gets too much, Emma goes hyper sexual. But maybe we save that for another time.
I think this is just the obvious use of the trope “Evil is sexy”
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/EvilIsSexyAll magic comes with a price!
Keeper of Felix
