[Crystal Princess]

Just to point out that what Anastasia is doing is equivalent to her Disney equivalent to Cinderella: A Twist in Time where she steals the  wand from the Fairy Godmother and it ultimately gets used so she ends up with the Princes instead.

In Once, she(well the Knave) steals a magic mirror so that she ends up becoming queen just like her mother wanted(wouldn’t even be surprised if she set this up somehow).

But matching the narrative more closely; he seeks to use magic to rewrite time and reobtain a lost chance at love.

[Crystal Princess]

I grew up with Disney. I love it. I recognize that the classics I know and love aren’t “modern” but that doesn’t make me love them any less. And Disney is trying. They’re trying to push themselves, but I think it’s hard for them to take those big leaps while also watching their pocketbook (and that’s crass and maybe wrong but it’s a reality of the business) As for ONCE: I want them to have an LBGT(and other letters) storyline very badly. One that doesn’t get swept under the rug like SleepingWarrior feels like it was. In the end, we’ll most likely never see SW come back in any real way because of Sarah and Jamie being on different shows. I think A and E believe in the power of love and a non hetero canon couple would fit perfectly. But it’s also about story, when they should introduce it in their narrative. My personal headcanon is that if they ever get to Hercules they make him gay. Subvert the normal “token gay character” trope (keeping with it would make Arhcie gay if anyone). I’d love to see that.

Queer erasure makes me really really angry tbh. Statistically 8% of the population has had at least one homosexual encounter so out of the hundred speaking roles(or so) we have at least 8 should be queer or have had a queer experience.(or course if anything we should have disproportionately more to make up for the lack of it up until now – we can never go back and insert PoC and Queerness into old TV shows and films that still get repeated ad nauseum). We have like… 1. Who also happens to be the 1 out of ANOTHER 8% that hasn’t turned out to be evil or dead… PoC.

They really really need to do better. Rapunzel is a good start but they can do so much more; Sleepy Hollow did.

Also having a “token” gay charter is still much better than nothing. Let’s not forget that Uhara on Star Trek would be viewed as a Token black character back in the day.

So far the moral of the story is that only straight, white, ablebodies cispeople can have happy endings… which is kind of really uncool.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Crystal Princess]

Okay, so Wicked is “technically maybe possible but very unlikely/impractical”.

Next idea: Marvel properties, where it makes sense to use them(Relevant to Fairytales/Storybooks/Legends/Magic – like perhaps using the Sasquatch from Alpha Flight, Marvel version of Morgana La Fey etc.).

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Crystal Princess]

Am I the only one on this forum who likes “disneyfied” things. I don’t like how they equate “family friendly” to mean no queer and little minority represenatation(AND GUESS WHAT ELSE IS BAD WITH THAT) but I don’t think making hopeful adaptions of storybooks and fairytales(which again is nothing new and tons of fairytales are even more sickeningly sweet than the Disney movies, it gets very broad) is a bad thing at all. I think we kind of need more hope?

We need to be not afraid to address darker themes but not let them consume us and convince that we’re operating on a new, more mature and REAL level of reality because we’ve accepted all these bleak, grown up things and oooh drugs and oooh sex and oooh gang violence and oooh drive by shootings and because these things exist and you accept they exist you’re on the highest more realist level of reality and there’s no going back or telling a hopeful story in spite of all this crap despite the fact that there are real people in the world every day that have to live with that and many of them still end up having happy stories, and a lot more could if we didn’t convince ourselves this was the natural state of things. I am transgender, I know these things. We go to some dark places. Many of us don’t come back – but a lot of us do.

Like some really dark stuff happens in OUAT, and even in Wicked to an extent(though it’s more undertones in a lot of cases, alluding to but not mentioning stuff from the book) but it doesn’t act like simply showing dark things means that’s all there is and we can never overcome it, as I think that’s a crappy narrative we’ve had far too much of in TV especially with people selling shows like Breaking Bad as high art – not simply because it’s a good show but because it deals with gritty real issues and that makes it better, because it’s bleaker, darker and more depressing.

That’s not what art is, it’s not what entertainment is and a lot of people forget this stuff unfortunately.

One of my favourite other modern fairytale adaptions is Princess Tutu where more or less the point of series is to fight against the author that fetishises tragedy and hopeless endings. Aside from the fact that Drosselmeyer would make an AWESOME Once Villain(who built the clockwork stuff in the clocktower/library?) I really liked that approach, because Team Bleak tend to like to think they’re on the top level of reality and maturity and don’t need to be put in any sort of place ever because dark stuff is more mature and anyone who has a problem with it is obviously 12.

There’s nothing wrong with stories with sad endings and they can be beautiful and artistic, but not INHERENTLY more so. I understand we do tend to get a lot of Hollywood […] that’s endlessly sugarcoated, but those are generally empty movies. When people try to do something seriously good or artistic, they tend to make something dark with no real hope of a positive ending and we need to stop pushing this false dichotomy. Though a sort of third option, Bittersweet endings are pretty much the norm in japanese animation too, and it gets fatiguing too(generally because they err on the side of bitter).

Whereas I can look at something like Frozen or Princess and the Frog, still see it’s beautiful, still see others consider them to be beautiful even though they don’t go down that road.

So screw people complaining about “Disneyfication”. Disney has a whole load of problems but selling hopeful narratives is not one of them.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Crystal Princess]

Crystal Princess wrote: , I like the kind of crazy setting but not the original narrative and Baum’s racism. Wicked, especially the musical version(the book was a bit too SEX DRUGS AND EDGY POLITICS), really made it work I feel.

The musical version of Wicked is too…. disney-fied as it is. I love it and all but once I read the book, I loved the book more. People love elphaba and forget that she isn’t the wicked witch… That is just ONE of many versions of the witch and not the official one. Thats why some people HATED Oz that great and powerful before it even came out. Thats why some people hate the Broadway version of the wizard of oz (most recent one) because the witch is actually EVIL. Dont get me wrong, I love Elphie and Galinda and Fiyero, and Nessa and all them. But if Once does Oz I hope its not Wicked version. We can’t add more fuel to that fire. Its getting its own show soon afterall (though based on the novel)

The Wicked (musical) version would fit so much better with Once’s narrative though, especially the idea of putting “Unadulterated Hope” on TV despite not being afraid to show dark things. Like people have even pointed out the similarities between Elphaba and Regina, but they’re still very different characters.

I know there are many different versions of the witch but it just seems like that’s the version that inspired much of OUAT’s narrative in the first place and it’s a shame not to use it.

I get kind of tired of the constant slew of dark, twisted or gritty interpretations of fairy tales which have already had countless darkified versions back when they were still just folk tales. What Book!Wicked did wasn’t all that different to a lot of other Look at Me I’m so Adult interpretations of storybooks and fairytales did and while it was good and paved the way for a better(IMO) musical using mostly the same characters and some of the same concepts it seems to me like it’s the stereotypical cynical, “grown up” fairytale adaption they’ve been purposely avoiding once. Dark without being bleak or overly cynical – that sums up Once for me.

And Musical!Wicked captures that essence very well too. Let’s not forget it DOES get dark, she still goes crazy and locks up a kid because she wants her shoes, people still die, there are still very serious issues of racism, politics and the like just more less drawn out than in the book, and tons of sapphic undertones. The musical works on several levels – just because the book only works on an “adult” level doesn’t make it better I think. From what I can see it’s more fleshed out and the sequels sound interesting but I just think if they were going to use a version of Wicked, they should do the musical version, since the musical is it’s own thing and has room to be fleshed out. We don’t see much of Musical!Elphie growing up for example and there’s tons of possibilities after the ending.

Of course I don’t want them to ACTUALLY use the musical and put bits of it on screen, just a version of that general story with plenty of it’s own twists.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Crystal Princess]

Just to point out – if they REALLY WANTED to do it, they could. Glee is not Universal and has used not only the songs but the characters, costumes and sets associated with Wicked in 2 episodes(and I will never watch them, lol). It’s also possible to work out a deal like was done with Quicksilver for the Avengers/X-men movies, I doubt Universal actually cares that much about a version of the character that’s probably different from the one they’ll end up using being put in a TV show, if anything it’ll help drum up recognition(but corps can be REALLY DUMB sometimes especially when it comes to copyright, so who knows). It will cost them but it might be worth it to bring attention back to the show since it’d be the first usage of Wicked characters outside of the book and musical.

This is why I’m hoping they put it on the long finger because they seemed to really want to get Oz right, and this might be one of the things they had in mind, especially setting up parallels to the Elphaba/Glinda story with Regina and Tink, which is useful for flashback purposes since they love parallels.

Most interpretations that have used Disney versions have been classic Disney movies – Oz the great and powerful didn’t do well critically or in the box office. It would make more sense to start over.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

[Crystal Princess]

I think rights to TV & Film are two different things also though and one doesn’t necessarily follow from the other, which could be the other reason. The issue with stuff like Wicked is that it’s so heavily based in another (I believe public domain property) property that things like exclusive rights probably work more awkwardly.

It just doesn’t seem worth it to me unless they can use a version of Elphaba. Maybe I love her too much but like… it feels wrong? Oz The Great and Powerful rubs me the wrong way too. I was never a huge Oz fan though, I like the kind of crazy setting but not the original narrative and Baum’s racism. Wicked, especially the musical version(the book was a bit too SEX DRUGS AND EDGY POLITICS), really made it work I feel.

I don't cause commotions, I am one.

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