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I also wanted to say thanks for doing the podcast, RG. I couldn’t have done it. But I’m glad someone from here could.
I’m also irritated about feeling like I’m not able to express my feelings outside of this thread, but … in a way … I understand. I mean, think about how we’re feeling — like something we really cared about (not even SF in this case, but the show itself) has been ripped away, ruined for us. It’s easier for people to think “Oh, there’s a good reason for this!” than believe that something they love has gone off the rails. The only reason the folks in here won’t, can’t do that is that the thing that went wrong is intrinsically tied to our enjoyment of the show. We just can’t explain that away. If that makes any sense.I think it makes perfect sense. I just don’t like how we are just suppose to “get over it” tho. But yet they want our opinions about things when we don’t necessarily want to fight about stuff right now. If other people’s favorite character died in a way they felt wasn’t true to that character, then they’d feel awful and terrible and might understand what we are feeling.
Agree!!
I must say i was feeling like more calm, and although i wont see it , just the fact that on 2 days they will be burying neal, and the home he always wanted is a coffin, 6 feet under in SB, makes so sad, and at the same time angry with A/E for what they did to the show, i sweet that some people still think there is hope, is dont think, i prefer to think MRJ asked out bc was unhappy, and i must say that is know waht is to feel bad while doing something you no longer believe, but im confident that we will soon have new MRJ projects, not only bc he said on twiter that as soon he decided what to do next , for me that means projects to decide and he said stay tune, i think is something soon, really hope so, and big for oaut to know what they lost
About theories, doing a pinochio theory, maybe, that would allow Dylan as recurring, then not much interration with remain cast, and even they trying to arranje to make him old and recover his memories, and then S4 ( believe is the last season) they fet him old like on the last ep and we see MRJ, only that, although found it strange that they were so sure that we would see Neal on Fb and maybe even this season, they were never so sure, especially bc they said on january that the character wouldnt came back to FB ( although dont know how, unless Rumple got some of neal memories and tells henry, bc there isnt a connection to neal outside Sb and on the EF year missing he was inside rumple body), maybe they talk with MRJ and found an agreement about this, but i think that this is to imaginative theory to them, also dont want souls to change body, bc wouldnt be neal or bae, at least with Dylan would still bae.
Also just one curiosity together with some spoiler of TVD, that @Ozma show me today, about the Vampire diaries:
Katherine is the reason why there is show, this year unlike other years was her year, we saw her arc, unlike neal, that barely had any screen time. So now the resembles:
– Katherine is the reason why the show exists;
– She dies on 515;
– she dies after being dying until she found a cure.
– her solution was merge with elena, although when she did this, a organization called travellers say to her that was live for a live.
-while in elena body, she woukd make elena be completely crazy, bc she would listen to voices,until kath fully take charge of elena bodym bc she was in a sort of limbo, in a sort of vault,
– to save elena they had to separate them what made Kath die, and although in this show the human people are always coming back from deathm the writers already said that kath is the exception, she is dead and will only be back on FB. Of course that teh actress is the same so no leavin the show.
I think is safe to say that this is creepy bc Kath died like 3 weeks ago , neal this week, both reasons why the show exist and both in the same way, although on TVD was better how they did it and also they show her arc during 15 epi, so that is not like neal.
[adrotate group="5"]"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I think they would not reverse this death, why spoiler and give interview about the actor and the character and then bring him back, as what recurring, although i find it they bring 2 more regulars to the show, they `ve been ussually taken 1 regular and adding 1, or take 2 and add 2(graham and archie for belle and ruby), unless they loose another regular this season by making him recurring. i think this is the end, do i believe they will regret yes, but will be to late, bc the episodes are filmed, they end filming tomorrow or something, there is no time to undo, if i had to play the part of seer, i will predict that they killing Bae/Neal was the undoing of the show and theirs, they will never recover from this, bc even though people may still watch, they will watch with no interest with no attachement, and not believing in anything else A/E say and that is pretty bad, bc with neal death and all the nospoiler, to the point of giving false hope to neal and sf fans, even this saturday when a neal fan said that neal wouldnt be on the final, he said how so you know that? really this is not giving false hope? is twiter he may decide who he anwsers or not, is not a live interview where he needs to explain everything live. They lost credibility and the cast as well, about not coming diretly saying something about this,
You are probably right, but is very ood that no one say anything about this, althought they probably talk in private, but all the rumours that were known to MRJ, bc many fans said to Adam, was even strange that mRJ had to come and explain himself and only after adam spoke, this all feels damage control and the same with the door pic, to pretend that he was filming like he wasnt the death, probably asked by adam for him to do that.
Someone said to me on twiter that he was on the same amount of episodes that he was on S2 as recurring, while i think that when he was recurring he had much more screen time than now as regular, but never mind, is sad that they choose not to follow the myth they thought in the begging and gave in to, i dont even know waht they gave in, i will say like RG say to PLOT.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I think they would not reverse this death, why spoiler and give interview about the actor and the character and then bring him back, as what recurring, although i find it they bring 2 more regulars to the show, they `ve been ussually taken 1 regular and adding 1, or take 2 and add 2(graham and archie for belle and ruby), unless they loose another regular this season by making him recurring. i think this is the end, do i believe they will regret yes, but will be to late, bc the episodes are filmed, they end filming tomorrow or something, there is no time to undo, if i had to play the part of seer, i will predict that they killing Bae/Neal was the undoing of the show and theirs, they will never recover from this, bc even though people may still watch, they will watch with no interest with no attachement, and not believing in anything else A/E say and that is pretty bad, bc with neal death and all the nospoiler, to the point of giving false hope to neal and sf fans, even this saturday when a neal fan said that neal wouldnt be on the final, he said how so you know that? really this is not giving false hope? is twiter he may decide who he anwsers or not, is not a live interview where he needs to explain everything live. They lost credibility and the cast as well, about not coming diretly saying something about this, sorry not trying to send hate to actors, but to me this only shows that maybe something was really bad on ouat world, i even remenber of spoiler pics of 310, when they arrive to SB, all cast was joking and kidding, but one of the darwfs took a pic of mRJ sitting alone, smocking and drinking coffee, not laughing with the colleagues.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I dont know anymore, like i said here many times, besides the character death and how was handle, that made no sense, they changed their story about rumple father between seasons, this was confirmed by RC, maybe was then that they decided to kill neal, but still looks like rush, just like they brought MRJ after 311 to do nothing, and on 1 epi they put everything the fans wanted to see, with no exact resolution, even the whole conversation between Neal and Emma on the forest was like between friends, not like 2 persons that said they love each other.
Do i think that maybe was actor asking out, maybe that is true, that rumour of the make up , that he was tired of the bad publicity, tired of being bullied, that for me has a lot to blame also on actors and writers, they should have come and step up about this whole ship thing, the fact that one day one fan said to MRJ that emma should end with hook bc neal was ugly and should have stayed dead and they tag colin on the tweet also, and he didnt came and say respect the persons, no they feed them bc they like the to see people fithing each other, and other things they feed with the whole ship thing. So i think MRJ was relieve and being out, and maybe is why the cast doesnt come to say anything, bc they knew that was maybe his decision, bc having a character in 2 epi like 5 minutes, none on the in another epi and then craziness in another and puff dies.
I do believe that dead is dead, hope that they dont bring people from dead on wonderland, will be dificult to explain why jafar can do it and the dark one cant, also rumple accepting neal dead is also pretty oc, so now he will move on with belle like nothing happened, all villains that used dark magic get to live and be happy and the person that most deserve dies, to became a hero bc he opened a damn vault, in a totally OC.So although i would like to know what RC thinks about this, story line, last time rumple thought SB was going to be destryoed, and then Henry was kidnap, so how he is going to react, to mourn his son, after not being controled by the WW anymore. I guess they will make all characters OC after this, with no sense in terms of past storyline.
You know how i could accept like this rush epi? if they came and say that MRJ had a better proposal and we have to eliminate neal, fast, bc he was to important to many characters to make him go back to ny, although they could have use the august story and bring back young bae with no memories of anything, i could even wish now that they could have changed the ideas and made neal and bae 2 diferent persons, maybe this way bae was still around. Bc that is my problem, bae myth on the story was erased, was like he was just a plot to emma, henry and rumple, as soon as he made peace with them was over, that is my problem with the show, is like the show ended on 311 and after that a new show started, well they did say a new way of telling the story was going to happen.
The thing is Bae/Neal was always in danger bc from all regulars he is the only one without a title and a fairy tale persona, everyone on sb have their personas in FL, even the other 2 original characters have titles, Savior and Truest Believer, he was no pirate, no evil queen, no prince charming, no snow white, no rumple, no belle.
After thinging the epi 315 with more calm and cold, and free on the spoiler, when is going to happen, how, to who, in which epi, bc there is also a proof, why not kill neal only on the season finale, and if they wanted him go dark, we would find out he was the one that cast the cusre and sacrifice himself by killing the witch, not wanting emma, rumple and regina go to the dark path bc of henry, that would have been huge and emotional, but let me continue, there are to many errors on the epi, starts on 314 at the ball, where is neal and belle looks like she is happy, if they dont know where is neal back then why they arent worried? who were all those people and what kindgom is that? the story line say 9 months ago, so how many months snow is pregnant, not 9, bc if is like normal people by now she should have the kid already, also on 314 she is pretty pregnant already.Then on 315, hook leaves the charmings and only after that neal talks with them about rumple and hok said that he heard him talk, then the whole OC Neal and Belle, and the fact that she said never saw lumiere there, so she pass time there and never meet him? is not strange that someone put him there? The neclace explanation but never a kiss, i mean she kiss graham, hook, walsh and on his last breath neal doesnt deserve a kiss, the hook and neal scene, that made me think that maybe hook almost knew that neal was going to die, belle found the symbol to fast,unlike on the EF, the whole hook and neal talk about the message, that is didnt understand, how emma had time to explain all, and even when she saw neal she was like oh, there you are, no hug nothing, and the jail story is all forgiven no worry, then another thing that i dont understand, when neal meets her at the woods, it appears that she said that she lost rumple, after the monkey atack, but neal was on the hospital, how could rumple be on the forest, then WW stays aloen with the body in the middle of the woods, this seems like was lets get this done, we are tired of you, you are tired of us, lets film this so that we go seperate lives. And now lets buring him, and we all move on, henry will have 2 new dads , a new aunt/or uncle, a new adopt aunt, and new step brother and they will always be happy forever.
I would prefer if this was really decide between seasons, maybe, maybe not( they could have decided after making MRJ regular) also a quote from MRJ in which he says after 301, the would be very surprised if they turn neal in some wizard, no i wonder if the signs were there and they intended to do this a possible death that could be brought back, but for some reason they decided from one minute to another kill him for good, like maybe actor request.
Guess they can still bring Dylan to younger bae, but the myth is broken, i prefer that they dont bring Dylan and MRJ anymore, Dylan bc is getting to old to make 14, and would be painfull, MRJ, bc simply for what, he doesnt have anymore connections on this world for us to see the after emma to NY, during emma i think would be to stupid i in present day she has another person, unless is on Henry mind or dreams make them talk or see him, like a guardian angel to emma , henry and rumple, in their minds, i dont know, it doesnt make sense they kill character and then say that they intend to use the neal for fb, if they said bae, would be dylan, but they talk about MRJ, and even this season which is just lame. but i guess is waht the show is now, sorry about the ven i guess i now a stage 2 of loss, the anger part toward the show, and the writers and even until the actors that could have come and say something about the colleague, even when was his birthday no one said anything to MRJ, while with other actors they all send HB wishes, then the unfollow twiter ABC, great spoiling the death, they even unfollowed dylan.
I do think they will regret about killing neal, and you know what i hope so, and i hope ratings show that in a very low ones, so that haters stop saying that now the rating will raise bc there is no neal, from waht i saw online, many people are quiting, from several ships and parts of the fandom, even people saying that since monday people on bus and coffees and other public places talking about how they didnt like the episode and will stp watching.Bc people want to believe that we can get second chances and happy endings, and bae was like us, he symbol the casual viewer, and that breaks an audience, A/E may be on the edge of finding that in casual viewers neal was probably the most important character of the show, and i hope so, bc at least shows that theere was many people loving bae/neal.
Also a quick note, we are mourning the myth of show we spend time watching, Thank god we still have MRJ to see and talk about, not like glee that had to kill fin bc cory died, if other people dont understand is probably bc they never saw the symbol of the show and everything that surrounds Rumple and Bae story.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
Hey guys, catching up to everyone’s posts. Wow it flew by today! My heavy heart lessen considerably, it no longer feels like I have stones inside of me. I was able to go to work today and actually concentrate. Though I’m still not ready to watch the episode without feeling that pain again. Nor do I think I can for a long time. I’ve gone from grief to anger now. Just wanted to post what I wrote (basically self therapy for myself) with all the thoughts inside my head that I just needed to drain out. Posting it everywhere and anywhere. It helped a great deal. Forgive the harshness, I was in a rage mode when I typed this: After crying my eyes out and letting it sink in. I found the episode utterly atrocious at the way it was written. I don’t care what the writers are going on about it being BOLD and feeling “right”. It was a rushed cheap cop out to get rid of the character fast. In the process it made Neal OOC throughout the whole episode, made his death a convoluted plot device that held little meaning and felt repetitive, and then nullified the purpose of season 1-2 all in one fell swoop. There was absolutely no build up or resolution to his character arc. I can only lament at the wasted potential of his character and the many unanswered questions. What happened in the 200 years he spent in Neverland? What happened when he got to land without magic? What happened in between the 10 years he left Emma? There are just full of holes in his story that will probably never be touched on again. Also there was little to no resolution to the issues Neal faced. He never made due to his promise to see Henry again. He and Emma never really talked about their relationship or whether or not it was salvageable. He barely reconciled with his father in a mere day or so over the 200+ years of hurt. He and Hook hardly touched on their pseudo father/son relationship and the betrayal. All these missing pieces that could have been built up leading to his death were utterly WASTED. Instead they shoehorned everything within 1-2 minutes of each other. If he had to die, a good death would have had his character arc build up and his story-lines pretty much wrapped. The audience would have been lulled into a false sense of security and then bam, he would go out saving the people he loves after his closure. The other thing that infuriated me was him being OOC. Neal just blatantly using dark magic when he’s been weary of magic all his life and a DO vault that was whipped out of nowhere for plot device. If there was build up on his dilemma on turning to the darkness, I can understand, but it just came out of left field with the 5 minutes of screen time. Also his line about his father teaching him the true meaning of sacrifice was a WTF moment for me. Neal knew about sacrifice. He sacrificed all his life! I found his sacrifice by falling into the portal to save Emma so that Henry won’t be an orphaned more meaningful then the sacrifice then in this episode. All he essentially sacrifices his life for was so that Rumple can divulge a name, which if the Charmings had an iota of a brain would’ve figured it out already. It also cheapened Rumple’s sacrifice at the end of 3A. He sacrificed his life so that Bae and Belle could be happy, only to be brought back to watch his son die again. Rumple’s sacrifice was meaningful because he let go of magic and instead of clinging onto his son he let go to rectify his wrongs. The BOLD thing to do was to let Rumple die permanently. But alas the show was too scared to let Robert C go. I loved Rumple’s character but now it’s getting repetitive to see his man-pain over losing his son AGAIN! UGH! We’ve explored this already in season 1-3A!!! Where was that CaptainFire hug in 3A??? Absolutely rushed and was an ill attempt to make Hook look better before Neal kicked the bucket. And I didn’t buy the CaptainFire scene for a second. Hook makes it seem like his took Bae in as a son but they fail to mention anything about Hook giving Bae away to Pan because god forbid, they actually ACKNOWLEDGE Hook’s wrong doings. It wouldn’t hurt to have Hook say “Betraying you to Pan was a mistake I regretted all my life.” Or something to that effect, would’ve done worlds for Hook’s character and Bae’s resolution. But no it was yet another crime they just brushed over, and in Neal’s death episode no less! It also pretty much shattered my viewing of the show as a whole about love, happy endings, and second chances, themes that were pretty much shove down our throats since season 1. Neal/Bae was a person that had crap thrown at him all his life and he never found one ounce of peace in the 300 years his spent alive. That just saddens me to the point of losing hope for myself. Neal was a regular person that I could identify with and looked up to. He wasn’t a monster or murder, but he certainly wasn’t perfect. He made mistakes but he own up to those mistakes, he didn’t brush it aside, and he acknowledge he did wrong. I admire his strength of will of being a good person even against immense obstacles and betrayal. He constantly put others first before himself, which I’ve rarely seen others do for him. He also wasn’t one who took Rumple’s crap, he stood up and told it like it is. People hated him for it but it was the truth. So to see a good character like Neal just die in the worst way possible was utterly heartbreaking and pretty much destroyed the theme of second chances. People are going to say that’s how life is; some people don’t get happy endings. Really? On a show that preaches about Happy Endings like its gospel? Like it could actually happen? But it seems like in this show no GOOD person gets happy endings, Graham, Lancelot, etc…now Neal. It feels like it a slap in the face. I don’t want to watch villains get second chances, I watch the average joe like Neal (in reflection to myself as the average joe) get a second chance. But no you do good, you work hard, you sacrifice all your life, and then you die. What sort of message does that send across???? I guess I better shoot someone to get my happy ending, because lord knows I do good or make one mistake it gets me killed in the end. There is a horrible imbalance here. Villains can walk about scott free giving half ass apologies and are able to get a second chance at life and love? WTF? That’s like watching my abuser walking free while I’m six feet under. I don’t believe any sort of message OUAT send across now. If they didn’t preach about happy endings so hard I wouldn’t feel this bitter.
Game of Thrones had tons of sad death scenes, the only difference is that they don’t have posters with taglines that say “second chances” written next to the character they just killed (oh the irony!) GOT’s tag lines are “All men must die” and “When you play the game of thrones, you win or you die.” I fully expect a survival of the fittest mentality when watching GOT. They follow through with their messages. To preach about everyone getting Hope and Second Chances and kill off the one that actually DESERVES it the most, pretty much rips at me harder than any walking dead or GOT death scene ever. Now I just don’t care about the show anymore. I don’t care about any of the present characters either. Charmings are just naïve, pushovers, that let the villians do whatever they want, never having the balls to off someone. Regina and her constant flip flop good/evil thing is getting old hat. Her line of “I regret nothing” and “Someone to destroy.” Has shown me she’s learned nothing for 3 seasons and makes me want to pound my fist on the table. Hook’s constant pinning for Emma, Emma, Emma is also getting old and boring. He pretty much lost his manhood at this point. Rumple’s lamenting over Neal and Belle is also getting old. Emma is slowly turning into Charmings 2.0. Letting the Hook just get under her skin so easily. I was also appalled that she would pair Hook with Belle as her protector. OMG even when Belle obviously looked uncomfortable with the idea. After all he assaulted her twice, pointed a gun at her face, and actually shot her. Call freakin Leroy or Granny or hell Red! Why Hook??? And Emma had to pry an apology from Hook, as if that would make it any better. JFC! The show turned into a shadow of its former self. I hoped A&E would turn it around, but I was wrong. After all why Hope? They taught me that it’s pointless and futile. Fate kicks you in the arse, you just have to accept it. I guess I’m just done. My enthusiasm for this show ended when Neal died. Maybe I’ll catch it once in a while but it’s off my list on Sundays.Agree, that is how me and some friends feel to. that is why i can even see the show anymore, the previous seasons, the story between rumple and bae, the reason why the show exist , died in a OC way, is like the whole 2.5 seasons were lie and on 312 they start writing a new show diferent without connection to previous seasons, not even with S3A( although this had many epi where characters made oc decisions, the hook kiss, emma leting regina take the kid heart, ect) i find also all the other characters and im even starting to think they brought the whole Robin Hood so that they have an excuse for emma to move one with hook after her 1st love died.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
I said it on the chat and i say it here, now with more calm, and coldness, free from ouat world, i see that rumple sacrifice on 311 was nothing but one excuse to kill neal on the nexts episodes. We talk like his sacrifice was nothing bc neal die, but the true is, that was design like that, they made rumple sacrifice himself so that they have a reason and excuse to kill neal later on, by trying to save his father.Im starting to think that even the idea of pan was rumple father was also use as plot make the sacrifice powerful so that neal die the same way. The thing is the line of happy endings is stupid if they would kill the character, even if this was prepared like bt season they take 15 ep, to make a crap death, if they wanted him death, they could have use like for example, the 1st curse was made to get close to him, this second curse would kill him, or some idea like this, like give him few time live in SB after the curse hits, with nothing of dark magic, but bae being connected some how to the whole mytology of the curse, after in SB few time to live.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
i saw something that makes me want to vomit, like im sorry Cs here, you are very kind, but the words that they wrote on this article is i dont even have words to describe.
http://www.entertainmentoutlook.com/2014/03/31/upon-time-3-16-easy-green-info-promo/
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
i saw this at tumblr and thought was great.
http://meresger.tumblr.com/post/81313671304/things-i-learned-from-ouat-a-show-about-family-love
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
You know what is sad is that i will never be able to see any previous episodes know what will happen to neal, and remind me of young Bae, because is him i see on his coffin, not having his happy ending. this is so sad. So they will bring MRJ for what, one year EF?, they even said we maybe see him again this season, for what? And bringing for Fb for who, we will never be able to know what was his job in NY, what he did after emma, nothing , so they will bring him for what emma fb, like jen and mRJ can even look 18 and 24, couldnt like 2 years, and will not now. It seems that they knew this from beg season,so all hope and al that crap at comic con was a lie bc they knew that he would die, and know hook will take his place with his son, and Robin as well i hope Rumple came and take his place and henry grandfather and dont let robin or hook interfer with henry life. I stil crying and know funeral pics.
"I offended you with my opinion? Ha, you should hear the ones I keep to myself".
