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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
Seems like the Evil Queen and Zelena may be teaming up, as speculated. Though, what does Zelena get out of it? Perhaps things aren’t quite as they appear, and there’s something else going on.
I wonder if Zelena is gathering intel on the EQ and her plans for the heroes by, more or less, going undercover. It would be a shame if Zelena went back to her wicked ways and working against the heroes after an episode like “Sisters” and her decision to kill Hades.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"New promo aired tonight during the Miss America pagaent. Will post as soon as we have it–it had quite a bit new footage
Here you go, guys!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"New promo aired tonight during the Miss America pagaent. Will post as soon as we have it–it had quite a bit new footage
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I know the quotation is several year’s old, but I don’t think it’s totally irrelevant either since it seems evident that Hook is still being written as the person who is wrong for Emma. Season five was especially damning for Hook and Emma since it had all the text-book signs of a toxic romance
Of course it was damning. It was downright horrendous. And he is being written as terrible for Emma but the question is whether or not it’s deliberate. And I say it’s not. The quote you brought up is about a year old (or at least a season old) so here’s their most recent (as in, as of two days ago) quote:
“Last year we saw Emma saying I love you to him when they weren’t in any sort of danger”
To A and E this is apparently the marker for the beginning of HEA for CS. It’s almost exactly parallel to something they once said about Neal and Emma—after S2 and the portal scene A and E said (to paraphrase) that saying I love you in the heat of the moment (like falling down a portal or when you’re about to face a raging cloud of darkness) is one thing, but it’s in the moments afterward (when there is no danger) when other things might get said. In S3 we saw Emma reaffirm that she’ll always love Neal but then state that she still scared to love him because of all the pain they once experienced. Now, as a die hard SF’er I get that the story was about them overcoming that fear and moving into a better place together, coming home to their family together. But CS got the same treatment–Hook even brings it up that Emma always says she loves him when they are in danger–and then in the finale they have Emma say it when there is no danger, when their lives aren’t at stake, after Hook is brought back from the dead for being “such a hero!” and they pass some sort of idiotic and silly True Love test. There was no mention of fear, no mention of being scared to move forward. It was just plain and simply “i love you” and maybe it was unbelievably unconvincing (mostly because I don’t think JMo buys into it either) but the point that A and E are making in that above quote is that CS got to a place that Emma’s not gotten to up until now and from here on out, it’s about moving forward together. I mean, that spoiler where I got the quote technically asks for CS and what do A and E do? They emphasize the “ILY” during the quite moments and then discuss Hook’s redemption and heroism–the same yarn they’ve been spinning since about S3 and OUAT version 2.0.
I think the writers are exploring the differences between Emma’s relationship with Regina (which helps Emma) versus Emma’s relationship with Hook (which hinders her). To me, Hook and Regina are literary foils. I’ve got another analysis on that very issue, but I think I’ll save it for later.
Okay and I don’t disagree with this at all but I think it speaks to their inability to do a proper “show don’t tell.” They keep showing Regina and Emma as kindred spirits or (heck) even soul mates. The chemistry, the dynamic, the commonalities, all the things Swen shippers have been pointing to for years…it’s all still there both subtextual and textual. But at the same time as they are showing SQ, they keep telling CS–they keep saying that it’s CS where Emma’s heart really lies in terms of romantic partnerships. The best example of this is really the S4 finale and what happened in S5(a and b). Emma sacrifices herself clearly for Regina (a fact that A and E then had to deny ad nausuam at every convention, interview post 4×22 and spin some clever lies about how it was for “everyone!”) but says “ILY” to Hook and then spends all of S5A and B with her story being solely about Hook–Dark One Hook, Sacrificed Hook, Saving Hook–even though they keep reshowing that it’s Regina who truly gets, understands, and is “better” for Emma!
Now maybe their hearts aren’t truly in CS. Maybe they are oblivious to the disconnect. Maybe they are just simply lazy and trying to appease as many bases of fans as possible. But I just can’t imagine that whatever the reason is, it’s likely to change.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’m not trying to give false hope to anyone nor give A&E too much credit. At the same time, I’m analyzing it the way I’ve been trying to all along. I go back to something Eddy said in season two:
I understand that and I knew you’d bring up Eddy’s quote (it’s your go-to one, even 4 years later). But the problem is that was S2. That was before Neal died. That was before ABC pushed the living daylights out of CS and Hook because they think that’s where their profit lies.That was before A and E had to run a show that wasn’t based off ten years worth of planning and work. I don’t believe A and E remember even half of what they said prior to the reset button of 3×11, nor do I think they care to remember.
Should Eddy’s sentiment come back up in the show and play out, I think it far more likely that they’ll say “Emma chooses herself. The heroes journey ends with self actualization and knowledge of the internal, and Emma is choosing herself with Hook, and with Henry and with her whole family. The orphan found her place in the world and was happy.” I mean, it’s the same thing they would have said had Neal not died. Hook’s just standing in for what should have been (the Lost Boy and the Lost Girl coming home). Hence why in interviews, they speak about Hook’s story as if it was the same as Nealfire’s–the lost kid, the sad family, the hope of finding your place in the world someday. The difference is that Neal/SF isn’t/wasn’t the epitomization of rape culture, but A and E don’t get this (again, see my above and the fact that they can’t be super enlightened in this one regard when they continue to be so traditional and by-the-book about all other areas of cultural/socitial changes/movements and the “others” of said society). A and E simply think they can substitute in one character for another still have the same story.
A lot of it goes back to the heterosexual male privledged gaze–they could never convince of the fact that they did something wrong, and that their product (their creative work) is flawed and not even remotely the same as it once was. That’s why it’s like pulling teeth to get them to admit that they mess up! It’s always “keep watching!” or “no it wasn’t an error, we know the timeline!” or “it’s something we hope to explain one day” when they have no such intentions, they just literally can’t say “yeah, we have no idea what we’re doing.” For example, I don’t think it’s a coincidence that when we want to look at Emma’s internal struggle and emotional journey,a lot of the quotes come from JMo–not A and E–a person who, at the end of the day, has no knowledge of where the show is headed nor has any contribution to her character’s story (Sean’s exit interviews speak about this, and JMo’s Nerd Con panel at SDCC speaks LOADS about how she might really feel about Emma’s character/OUAT…but it’s not something she can control or influence)
ETA: and I’m not trying to dismiss your analysis (they are extremely good, always have been) and I’m not trying to rob anyone of their hope that Emma might break with the pirate once and for all but if we’re going to have these kinds of conversations I think it’s important that someone play the other side of argument–the “never gonna happen” argument. And to be hyperbolic, I think there’s a greater chance of me sprouting wings and flying than there is of A and E breaking up CS at show’s end.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also, I get the suspicion that this mystery will be explored in “A Bitter Draught”, the Snow/Charming centric with the Count of Monte Cristo.
If the Land of Untold Stories is like NVL–ie, never moving in time–then that would explain how the Count could be Charming’s not-so-dead papa.
(or it’s one of the Musketeers)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I think both Merlin and Neal appeared to Emma because they represent her inner conscience, her inner light and also her sense of right and wrong.
Maybe but if they are her inner consciences, they are also the things Emma keeps flat out ignoring. She still did the thing Merlin told her not to do. And she still did the think Neal tried to warn her against. If these are Emma’s inner lights and her own consciences trying to tell her that something is wrong with these plans, with these relationships, with these decisions that she’s making, the writers are having her flat out refuse to acknowledge them or heed them. She keeps barreling through, doing as she wants. Damn the consequences. So how can they be personal revelations if she just ignores them and does she pleases?
There are two potential answers.
1)Either the writers are extremely clever and trying to play an incredibly long game with Emma and her ultimate happy ending by having these tiny “light” moments pop up in contrast to what’s going on with Hook–which also means that they are also playing with traditional and expected power dynamics and gendered depictions in TV (ie: the good girl who falls for the bad boy and changes him and ignores the red flags about their rape culture-tastic relationship). The end here will be to subvert the cliche and have Emma walk away from Hook and her relationship with him.
OR
2) They are bad writers who aren’t extremely clever, who are keeping–lock, stock and barrel–to the expected, keeping in line with traditional media depictions of relationships between men and women. The end game being CS married, in love, with kids, and Hook being lauded as a “big damn hero” (to borrow Firefly’s turn of phrase)
And here’s why I think it’s number two. First, I love your analysis–all of them. Really, I do. They are fantastic. I just don’t think they hold much water when you look at the big picture that is OUAT–in other words, can I really accept that A and E are extremely clever, moving past their own heterosexual male privileged gaze to subvert our expectations/media’s traditions when it comes to Emma Swan/CS/SF….. BUT are still so woefully ignorant and rote in all other areas of culture and society?
Look at how they view/have depicted the LGBT community. People of Color. The elderly. The disabled. The poor. Look at how they view woman–through the incredibly “traditional” lens that women are only whole and happy only once they’ve had children and that “fallen” women are sexually aggressive, promiscuous, and wanton. This last one–their views on women–is the big rub for me.
I cannot accept that they are so steadfastly traditional in their views concerning all other important facets of society and culture but somehow, miraculously, enlightened and able to look past their own heterosexual male privileged gaze when it comes to CS and are actively engaging in a conversation with their audience about good and bad relationships and power dynamics.
All the latest spoilers point to them toeing the line and keeping apace with what we’d expect. CS kissing, CS being in love, Cs being tested but ultimately winning their trails, Hook being lauded as a hero, and Emma being head over heels in love with him totally ignoring the red flags that the writers don’t even acknowledge as existing because they don’t see the relationship in all its rape culture glory
Emma going to Archie is a great sign, but I’m starting to believe it has MORE to do with her fear of what a Savior means–and the supposed lack of a HEA– and not because of some interpersonal drama or dilemma that will result in her splitting from her abusive relationship
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So, what do you guys think the signs in Emma’s true “dream”/vision with Neal means?
They were having fun with Biblical allusions. The Savior is going to Hell seemingly to rescue everyone (by the end of the episode)…it says Revelation, literally the book in the New Testament that deals with such end of days matters.
They were trying to be clever b/c the Vancity theme park this is modeled on/they shot at has a ride called Revelation and they didn’t want to pass up the tongue in cheek thing.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
