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I keep meaning to ask. Who’s on your new profile pic?
Ethan and Vanessa—Penny Dreadful. A show gone long before its time. (still in mourning)
It is such a shame when writers feel the need to distort everything they’ve work towards just because the cleverest of the fans might have read the clues correctly. That is what good foreshadowing is all about.
Right. Do they not want us to theorize or speculate? Do they just want us to sit back, numbly, and not think too hard about the show and plot and characters and just be TV-watching sheep??
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"(Also, Hi everyone!)
Hi back!
I think everyone would be better off if Adam and Eddy get a time out from social media for a while
Or just altogether.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Did anyone else watch the final curtain call on Facebook? I did and sobbed slightly hysterically over a musical I’ve never seen about a very dead founding father. When they played the West Wing Music….eh gad.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"LIVE on #Periscope https://t.co/vb6hCy3yPn
— Lin-Manuel Miranda (@Lin_Manuel) July 9, 2016
LIN IS A PRECIOUS PUPPY AND WE MUST PROTECT HIM AT ALL COSTS. IT IS IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION.
(I’m basically stalking his Twitter right now waiting for his final goodbye)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also, the whole idea that the audience figured it out so we have to change it way of writing is insane.
THIS. That recent EW (I think) interview they gave where Kitsis said basically just that made me both roll my eyes and head desk excessively.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It was also supported by another source regarding the terrible plot and writing of Dead of Summer and whether that points to OUAT season 1 having been planned out mostly by someone else (aka Damon Lindelof — showrunner of Lost). To quote from that source (edited for profanity):
Speaking of….
Back during “Ruby Slippers” I tuned into the OSOTM podcast to hear their LGBT thoughts. And during that discussion they brought up something really interesting: that they had knowledge that OUAT is the work of someone else (not Lindelof and not Fables) and that A and E were very close to getting sued for copyright infringement. The two hostesses of OSOTM said that someday they would tell that story they heard and maybe interview their source. It’s always something that stuck in my brain and am always on the look out for. A quote from the article you posted above reminded me of that:
After a 10-year writers’ block, including a detour to script the feature Tron: Legacy, they still couldn’t find their way into Once. The two had a deal at ABC, as did Lindelof, so they pitched the idea to him, and he encouraged them to follow through on it—more than once. They sent three outlines to the studio, “but before they could give us notes, Adam and I would call and say, ‘We don’t like it; we want to change our minds,’” Kitsis recalls.
The bolded stands out in this conversation.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"To the Union. #RaiseAGlass https://t.co/6EO9eR443b
— Hamilton (@HamiltonMusical) July 9, 2016
#NotCrying
#YesCrying
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yes, OUAT in WL was pretty good, as it had compelling characters and a contained start, middle and end, but it was only one season in length.
Yes. This is a great point so I went back and did some digging. OUATinWL was 13 episodes; A and E penned zero of those by themselves. Every episode that has A and E’s name on it also has at least one other writer–Zack Estrin or Jane.
To compare this to Dead of Summer…its roughly the same so far. No episodes with just their name on it; Ian Goldberg gets credit for writing the pilot with them. Now that’s going to change next week when A and E pen episode 3 (and then 4) by themselves, without Goldberg. So I’ll have a more solid ground to analyze after that. But, so far, episode 2 (no A and E) was better than episode 1 (A and E, plus Ian Goldberg)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The split season thing, though, isn’t really part of the problem. There are a ton of other shows that do that as well (many on ABC) and do not have nearly the amount of inconsistent narrative that OUAT has. You could argue that OUAT is a myth-based show, not a episodic program like, say, Grey’s or even Scandal but there are other myth shows that do split seasons (TWD, your standard DC comic book shows) and they do just fine with narrative, plot, character, ect. It’s not a matter of split seasons; its a matter of 1) A and E thinking they need to tell two totally different stories EACH split and 2) them, honestly, not being good writers. They do have good moments–but when you consider the best A and E episodes (the Pilot, A Land Without Magic, Manhattan) they are all episodes that were thought up long ago when they were sketching out the entire central story of OUAT–The Dark Curse (which includes Snowing and Regina), Emma, and Bae.
I kinda think blaming ABC’s split session deal doesn’t really hold a lot of water. ABC might to blame for some other things (the big Hook push) but in this case, it’s a writing problem.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So it’s been really interesting watching another A and E run show this summer.
I’ve been watching Dead of Summer because 1) there’s nothing else on and I need something to watch/review 2) I really wanted to test a hypothesis that has been lurking in the fandom for a few years.
The hypothesis goes that S1 of OUAT (and to little bit of a lesser extent S2) was so successful because (and only because) A and E had sat on the idea and perfected it for something like 7-10 years, while working on other shows (Felicity, LOST most notably); this is why S3-present day is so choppy, inconsistent, ect…because A and E had in no way thought past S1 and some of S2.
Because their original work was so self contained with a clear beginning (Bae–Rumple’s search–Dark Curse), a middle (Emma comes to SB), and an end (Emma breaks the Curse) it was darn near perfect/genius. Their ideas for season 2 were lightly sketched out (Bae is really Neal; Emma and Bae reunite) but once they got past their original concept of Savior/Lost Boy they had no where to go so they began to “make it up as they go” like we often say and this is largely where they began to seriously falter. While I did like S3A at the time (and still do, tbh) it does have a host of problems with the narrative.
So what I wanted to test with Dead of Summer was if their writing is actually good but been hammered to death by fan demand/ABC demand OR if they are really just poor writers with only a vague sense of mythology, world building, character development, gender politics, and everything else we talk about in this thread. We’re only two episodes into Dead of Summer so I’m not quite ready to make a fully fledged conclusion yet but let’s say that so far….I’m leaning toward the latter more than the former.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
