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A better comparison would be Heroes. Like OUAT, Heroes started out very strong, but its ratings and popularity took a considerable decline til it was cancelled at the end of its fourth Season.
Yeah, good comparison. The writing on Heroes also became wildly unfocused to the point that while I was a huge fan, I struggle really hard to explain the plot of S4.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I don’t think power is evil or a bad thing or that magic is evil or a bad thing. The problem, which @nevermore hits on at the end up thread, is that it’s wholly inconsistent year to year. I tired to point this out to Jeremy in the podcast on Wednesday, but we’ve seen Rumple use his DO magic for good–like helping Henry, curing ills, ect–as well as nefarious, self-righteous, and selfish purposes. But the show flits back and forth on whether magic is simply MAGIC and who wields it and for what purpose determines if it’s light or dark AND the idea that the DO power is simply evil. As the show stands right now, canon wise, it seems to be emphasizing the latter and forgetting the former. (though, the second sneak peek for 5×17 finds them flitting back to the idea that Rumple can use magic, but Belle puts the kaput on it being dark magic
But to bring this topic back round to Rumple…he doesn’t seem to be able (thus far) to stay away from taking the easy way out…when he needs, he uses Dark Magic, to heck with the results. He’s not above lying, manipulating, and working an angle if he feels the ends justify the means. and now we’re back to the current new peek, in which he tries to sell moral relativism to Belle
The darkness is too tempting (case in point: giving up his hero status to magically take back the DO powers after being rid of them and having his heart cleansed) and it seems highly unlikely that he’ll ever be able to stay away from “the sauce” for good.
btw @RG, I really enjoy your contributions to the discussion
thanks!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’m really interested to hear some predictions for this week’s episode, 5×17.
I think it’s a safe bet that we will at least stay steady at a 1.1 in the demo. But will we rise is the bigger question. There are no serious award shows, no live musicals, and no holidays. Not to mention that we’re coming off an episode that many consider a highlight of the arc and season.
I’m gonna play it safe and stick with a 1.1 but…other thoughts?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"@DanielJLewis and I were just talking about this and here are some numbers/thoughts.
They need to stop comparing themselves to LOST. They aren’t the same, not culturally and not number wise. LOST, in its final season was pulling numbers in the demo that we pulled in our FIRST season and haven’t pulled since (with exception of the beginning Frozen arc–but that went south quickly, before the arc’s end).
Latest episode of OUAT drew 3.4 mil live eyeballs and a 1.1 in the demo.
LOST episode 5×16 drew well over 9 million and had somewhere in the 3’s for their demo.
LOST was a beast in terms of ratings and OUAT isn’t going to achieve that, from where we are right now. It’s time to seriously think about how to end the story, make the final arc(s) in S6 the best they can by really focusing on knowing it’s the end.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"“We’re not, at this point, setting a specific end date for the show. But what we are doing is taking the luxury of knowing we have another season to be able to continue our long-term planning.”
Therefore, the OUAT bosses are not looking at season 6 as the end
Okay, but they also don’t decide the end date for their show. Not really. If ABC says S6 is it, then S6 is it, whether A and E have stories in mind or not. I appreciate that they are taking it one season at a time, but its not really up to them. And they’re smart lads; they know all this.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yeah I agree. Absolutely. I just remember thinking that the scene where he did give Bae up seemed hard on Hook as well, and didn’t Hook even get cold feet at the last second and try and not give Bae away? I could be way wrong about this, but at the very least, I remember Hook not loving that he did that. And yeah, like even Bae acknowledged in the present that Hook meant a lot to him, I thought. Could be wrong there as well.
Yes, Hook told Bae that it wasn’t too late and if he played by Hook’s rules, Hook would take him back.
Here’s the thing: Hook’s the adult. Hook should act like it. Teens are moody and Bae has literally been through more in his short life than most people experience over several lifetimes. We’re back to Hook’s emotional age and his sensitivity. Bae won’t play by Hook’s rules, so Hook sells his “son” to Pan. I mean, I got angry with my mom a lot when I was a teen. She didn’t kick me out of the house or give me up for adoption. And in this case, Hook feeling bad means nothing to me when Bae was sleeping in a cave, drawing pictures of home and hand letting him go by coconut-light, feeling rejected, alone, abandoned for 100+ years.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"This show is 100% poorer without MRJ. Ship what you want; MRJ is a class act who really delves into the psyche of his character and brought a real pathos to Neal.
I miss him.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Other than giving Baelfire up to the lost boys, I was under the impression we were supposed to think Hook was a good mentor for him.
I think your first statement answers the overall question, though. At least to an extent. Can you be a good mentor if you sell your ward to the figure you’ll later call a “blood thirsty demon”? That incident isn’t just a accidental miscalculation in judgement; it’s a life altering decision that deeply traumatized and affected the first party and showed the true colors of the second.
On the one hand, I agree that there was a genuine affection between Hook and Bae. “The things we do for our children” speaks volumes to me. He was Bae’s step father in all the ways that matter. But at the same time, I have a hard time saying “he was a good father figure EXCEPT FOR” as if the final outcome (selling Bae) doesn’t totally undermine whatever good mentoring there was in the beginning.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I suppose we shouldn’t be that surprised by Hook’s mistreatment of Henry
And of course let’s not forget the valuable lessons Hook passes on to Henry in s3; that winning is all that matters, even if you have to cheat and swindle.
And yes, yes. I know: pirate. But he’s supposedly reformed and wants to be a contributing mentor to the family, and even aspires to be part of said family
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Maybe discipline isn’t the right word, but Hook still shouldn’t be speaking that way to Emma and Regina’s son. Especially if he has hopes of marrying Emma and being Henry’s step father. It’s what Slurpeez said…he makes a poor father figure because, like Nevermore said, he has the emotional maturity of a frat boy and needs some sensitivity training.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
