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So predictions for tomorrow night’s episode, 5×15? Between Easter, a re-airing of Grease Live, Daylight Savings, and already lower ratings, I think everyone should be prepared to see the show go fractional.
My prediction: 0.9 in the demo
It will rise the following week to a 1.0-1.2 but I think this is going to be a really rough week.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Saying he’s excited doesn’t mean he’s working on S6. He could just mean he’s excited that the show has a S6.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"To bring this back, slightly, to our current arc, but the show has been referencing Dante’s Inferno a bit since we started and it’s interesting that the lowest level of Hell is “Betrayal/Treachery,” specifically those who betray a specific relationship (Caina: family, Antenora: country; Ptlomoaea: guests; Judecca: lords and benefactors)
I have no reason to believe that Dante’s depiction is going to play a significant part here, but maybe it does mean that Rumple has to face the music about a seriously deep betrayal of his family. Maybe it means the show will call it more than a mere lie; they’ll emphasize how deeply betrayed Belle feels.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Oh….I think Rumple and Hook are cut from the same cloth.
They are both passionately devoted to their cause: one to finding Bae, one to avenging Milah.
They both love deeply: one to Belle, and one to Milah (I may not like him or her, but I’ll never deny that he truly loved her. In spite of the “soiled” line from the seasons I’m choosing to pretend didn’t happen).
They were both good fathers/father figures until what they desired got in the way: they both took care of/helped raise Bae but Rumple’s fear of the unknown/life without power and Hook’s lust for revenge prevented them from fully committing.
I think the biggest problem on the show with these two lately is the show’s tendency to cast dispersion on Rumple while casting sunshine and puppies on Hook even though the two do similar things…like be horrible Dark Ones. Or paralleling their actions and making one a hero and one a villain (like sacrificing themselves for the whole town…Rumple’s was to save everyone, Hook’s way to fix his own mistakes. But only one them got the entire town to save him and is being called a hero)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"OK, where I live, if a boy snaps a girl’s bra on the playground, that boy would be expelled. It’s totally unacceptable, and it’s sexual harassment. Maybe this is why we don’t see eye to eye on this.
Locally it might be different place to place but in the broader society, that’s how men and women are treated. There are tons of stories on Tumblr about how girls get in trouble for defending their space when a boy does something but the boy doesn’t get in trouble at all. This is just one example to illustrate what aggressive/passive power and gender dynamics mean.
But apart from that example, we see this all the time in movies and TV. You yourself brought it with the cocky guy who always gets the girl. The guy is allowed carte blanche to do just about anything to win the object (object being used pretty deliberately here) of his affection. Look at Kilgrave on Jessica Jones and how he understands his harassment of Jessica vs how she does. To him, he has earned Jessica through his “devotion” and through everything he’s done for her but yet she remains the only thing (sorry, person) he can’t win over. Look at Ray Palmer on Arrow and his stalker like approach to Felicity, buying her gowns, forcing her to go to dinner’s, offering her jobs, and even the bizarre plot point of basically buying her entire job so she’s forced to work for him or something (@Phee and I even talked about it quite a bit not only in our Arrow thread we have here at the forums but also throughout SwanFire).
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"So, exactly, how does one classify this (because it should be recognized for exactly all the reasons you so beautifully list, as something profoundly immoral) without trivializing it as a talking point for a divorce lawyer?
Betrayal is getting us there but it does it get us there the entire way? Is the show even going to call it that? What will the show call it once Belle does find out?
Side note: but after a quick conversation with Matt, the divorce was not in the same sense we use it; I guess just kicking him out of town signaled the end of their marriage from Belle’s perspective because I do also remember a lengthy conversation about whether Belle was technically cheating on Rumple with Will.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"RG, btw I really enjoy your input on the podcast
Thanks 🙂
Anyway, about the men being aggressive in order to be real men, is that what you call rape culture? Because in a way this is really terrible for gentle men like spinner Rumple who was more of a woman in Milah’s eyes and therefore unworthy. I would say it’s unfairly forcing “feminine” men to live outside of their comfort zone in order to be accepted into society. It is the most unfair culture, and more unfair to men than it is to women, I think.
It’s not just being aggressive. I mean…I’m a relatively young woman. Confident men can be a turn on, no doubt (same with confident women). The issue that I have, and that is part of the rape culture conversation going on all over the world, is when the aggressive behavior of the man becomes akin to stalking, spying, harassment–buying her presents, showing up at her door, following her around work trying to convince him to go out with her. It’s when the guy won’t let up even though the woman has said “no” to him for dates, sex, love, whatever. And in the end, the guy gets the girl (without having to modify his behavior) because the woman didn’t know what she really wanted, she was denying her true feeling all along, ect. These are the things we see in media all the time, and even in real life, because we are trained from a young age to believe that men being aggressive in their pursuits is okay and that women should simply accept it as a form of love. Think about this way: on the playground, we see a young boy harassing a young girl–snapping her bra, chasing her, teasing her, making fun of her, ect. What do we tell the young girl? That it means he likes her. Not that she has every right to defend her personal space, that his kind of action isn’t okay….but that it means the young boy likes her and she should go with it.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’m bringing this up because I think, because Belle and Rumple are technically married, there is a risk of treating consent a little differently, which shouldn’t be the case.
Am I going crazy or didn’t they divorce in 4B? Isn’t there a line somewhere that alludes to them divorcing? Like early on in the arc?
I don’t know how that changes your argument–if it does at all–but it is something to consider, I guess.
But I am very reluctant to equate it to a sexual offense because it gives a very specific expression of sexuality (heterosexual, cis, and in this case, reproductive) undue weight.
You’ve definitely got a point here and I am trying to concede to not calling it a consent issue because I suppose it’s not really that in the same way that Regina/Graham is wonky consent. But how on earth do we even classify this? Because it’s such, to me, a deep level of betrayal because there was sex involved–or maybe, we should say intimacy involved since sex and intimacy don’t have to go hand in hand and moreover, it was reconciliation intimacy after a lengthy separation–that I have to call it *something.* Calling it problematic isn’t giving it the full weight that I do think it requires.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
