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So then shouldn’t she feel responsible for what Hook did as a result of making him become the DO? Shouldn’t she want to go save him?
No one is denying that anyone would want to save someone they love–well, except when it came to Neal (an actual hero who never tried to send a few dozen people to hell only to have a slight modification in conscious) whom Emma insists we have to let stay dead because he died a hero and we can’t take that away from him, never mind that Neal’s existence was important to more than just Emma, say like to her son and maybe to Neal’s father and father’s wife…
What was my point again? Oh right. That was it.
My point is this: it’s natural that someone would want to save someone they loved, we even see it with Neal and Belle when they trek out to save Rumple. The biggest issue I have is that Emma declares Hook a hero who made the ultimate sacrifice and therefore he should be saved because heroes get a second chance. Up-thread you compared Rumple and Hook’s sacrifice and said that while different, they were the same.
Well. No.
Because here’s where intent comes in. You can’t look at two sacrifices as if they exist in a bubble and call them the same simply because in both cases someone died. Intent matters.
Here’s Rumple’s intent:
*Peter Pan is planning on killing everyone*
*Rumple, knowing he’s a villain who doesn’t get a happy ending, decides to kill the plague that was Pan, save his family, and die in the process*
*Town is saved*
Here’s Hook’s intent:
*Hook is planning on killing Emma’s entire family and close circle of friends by sending them to the Underworld and letting the Dark Ones take their place*
*Emma prepares to kill Hook for this thus reclaiming some of her agency in this story*
*Hook, because of Regina–of all people??–is persuaded to not do this thing because he gets to decide what sort of man to be*
*Hook decides to die for his crimes and calls it heroic thus taking away some of Emma’s agency because now Emma needs permission to kill the guy who was going to send her family to Hell*
*Emma takes entire family to Underworld to rescue Hook*
I don’t call that sacrifice and I certainly don’t call it heroic sacrifice. You can call it comeuppance, you can call it justice, whatever. But I don’t call it sacrifice. We’re supposed to be talking about Emma so here’s me returning to her–Emma has lost perspective on justice, cosmic reality, the true horror of what Hook has done as the DO (both to her personally and to her family). All that matters, we are told, is that Emma get her boyfriend back, a boyfriend with whom Emma (and here it’s important to note that Regina gives the all important “it could work” line thereby telling the audience that yes, what Emma believes about her and Hook has weight) apparently shares a love that is the equivalent to Snow and Charming.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Emma’s actions in Nimue were extremely heroic and she did it by herself. Hook was nowhere to be found. So although much of the arc was her boyfriend trying to calm her down, not listen to Rumple in her head etc. etc., the most challenging test for Emma as a hero came when Hook was not around. She fought it herself.
Nobody has denied this. But a one off moment of self-empowerment doesn’t negate all the other times when it is Hook–and Hook alone–saving Emma, who is being presented as a frail, sickly, mute patient. And what’s missing from the Emma/Nimue argument is what happens *after* that–Emma brings darkness into the world doubly over (by making Hook a dark one), erases her families memories, and essentially become the “Evil Queen” by allowing the Dark Curse to occur. So while her moment with Nimue is a powerful one, it matters very little in the end because her entire story and arc once again is reduced to Hook.
But to me, if he’s a bad person still deep down inside, it makes sense that he would be the worst DO
I’ve never said the opposite. He should be the worst of the DOs if he is indeed the worst of people. But you’re missing the entire point: we, the audience, see this: Bad Hook = Even Worse DO. But the show–the narrative–isn’t saying that. They’re showing the correlation that Bad Hook = Even Worse DO, but then they turn around and say “it’s all the darkness’s fault” and “we have to go to Hell to save him because he’s a hero.” It’s a total double standard and a total disconnect in the logic of the narrative. The writers want to have their cake and eat it too–they want Hook to be the worst DO we’ve ever seen (implying that he’s the worst of the characters) but then they turn around and have Emma call him a hero, one deserving to live again, and that their love is equal to Snow and Charming.
The writers clearly wanted to progress the CS relationship here so Hook got more screen time helping her.
But it’s not him helping her. He isn’t there as an emotional support system while Emma fights herself. It’s Hook literally being the cure. Hook becomes the actor in her life. He has to take her and tell her to get on the horse. He has to get her out of the castle. He has to help her limp out, mute, from a room. He isn’t just there while Emma’s internal struggle plays out on screen, which would be understandable and more acceptable. He’s literally being the agent in the story.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Honestly I wouldn’t look too far into lack of on air promotion. Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D is back the same week and that still doesn’t even have a single promo yet.
Yeah but AoS is getting renewed without a doubt. It’s in its third season; one more season and it hits the magical 88-100 episodes for syndication. Even though its ratings are low (mid season finale at a 1.3) ABC wants that syndication so, it’s not in any danger. OUAT has hit syndication already. ABC can sell it to another network for reruns and still cancel the show (though, like I said, the ratings indicate we’re getting a S6)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also A&E said they had enough material for 5 seasons
Actually they (and Jane) said 7. But amount of material means nothing; it’s all about the ratings/ad money.
Right now I think this is just something that’s curious but not a signal that ABC made some sort of decision about anything. Should we not get any more promos at all–then it’s eyebrow raising. However, as Matt and I have said a few times, the numbers are low but it’s far more likely we’re getting a 6th season.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It’s definitely something to keep an eye on. With it being the 100th, with all the guest stars returning, you’d think ABC would go all out. Now, we’ve got a few big events coming up so maybe ABC is saving the promo for that–either the Disney celebration or the Oscars. But if nothing new happens during those events, then it’s something to chew on.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"One problem with the other Seasons is that the guest stars sometimes dominate the storylines (*coughFrozencough*), while taking character development away from the regulars.
Not only did the guest stars not over shadow the main crew, but they actually really enhanced the main cast. Like Ashely, her story tied to Rumple’s but her emotional storyline ended up being *very* in line with Emma and who Emma was as a character: A single unwed mother who was in danger of being told who she was, it worked so well because at the same time we were hearing (from Emma) about her life in the car, giving up Henry, the allusion to Tallahassee, and it was the first time she wore her Swan necklace
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Remember when many of us thought that Jefferson fell into the hat, after he got kicked out the window? That was what the editing of the scene implied, as there was a whoosh sound effect
Yes! I was convinced that he had gone through that hat to Wonderland.
He was such a great guest star–one thing I really loved about S1. They knew how to utilize the guest stars really well. They felt natural because so much of S1 was learning about the town. Jefferson, Granny, Ruby, Ashley, even one offs like Nova.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Thought you said your favorite was “Manhattan”, unless that opinion has changed? Of course you can elaborate more on that episode in our Season 2 retrospective.
Manhattan is very very very very close second, with A Land Without Magic being a very very very close third. I’ll go into Manhattan more in S2. But no, it’s always been Skin Deep at #1
Now the only real criticism I had with that episode was the whole time-traveling apple, while using Jefferson as a bit of a plot device
Yeah, it’s one of those things that I tend to believe A and E had some loose plan with but ultimately had to let it go when Sebby went to Hollywood’s door and it became next to impossible to really get him for more than one or two episodes. Exploring August and Jefferson’s connection is up there too.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"or the flashback is going to show us when Cora kidnapped Henry and took him to Wonderland.
Hopefully this. I’d love to have that question answered.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Skin Deep is not only the best episode of the season but of the entire series.
I completely agree. There are a few that come close, but I think Skin Deep eclipses them.
I think season 1 remains the best season of OUAT because it feels like it was planned out from start to finish.
I think this is a large part why S1 was so successful. A and E had been sitting with this idea of theirs for years. It was fully formulated.
Henry eating the poisoned apple turnover was the perfect way to get Emma to do what she needed to do. “You may not believe in the curse or in me, but I believe in you.”
That line was great. Actually that whole episode is great.
and also felt that the Kathryn murder mystery plotline dragged a little.
So did I. It got a bit wearing.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
