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I think she knew that the man telling her those things was not the same person, and that in some degree, it was the darkness talking
Here’s my problem with this. We don’t see Rumple talking to Belle this way. We don’t see Emma talking to Hook or even Henry this way. With Rumple, he is awkward and even tender at some moments. He even listens to her dreams of adventure and being a hero and admires her for it, not belittle her for it. He goes to save her from the Queens of Darkness. With Emma, we see her trying to seduce Hook and even trying to explain things about how she and this curse work now. At one point she even dresses like she did on his first date and recreates their date. She comes when he calls, she is there when he tries to jump of buildings. There is a problem with saying “the darkness made him do it” because the darkness did not make Rumple or Emma do that. And, not to put too fine a point on it, but excusing violent (verbally or phsyically) behavior as not being the fault of one perpetrator is part of battered wife syndrome.
There’s a lot more we could say about that means for Hook (his character) but since this isn’t the Hook discussion, I’ll pass over it.
The writers more of less gave Hook a free pass to say whatever he wanted to Emma–things that absolutely showed his sociopathic tendencies–but without any recompense. Emma does not call him on it either during the encounter or after, either to him, privately, or to her family. What does this mean for Emma? Well I think we can agree that Emma was a fairly underwhelming and Not-So-Dark Dark One. Meaning that the Vintage! Emma was still in there. That Emma sought justice. Our first meeting of her is tracking down a guy who ran out on his wife. She is particularly touched on guys who do wrong to women (probably stemming from the trauma of Neal) and makes them pay. For her to disregard what Hook says or to dismiss it is troubling. Love clouds judgement but it shouldn’t change something that was a huge make up of your core, not to the negative. And if it does, then we need to consider what kind of love that is and what kind of person the character is.
I think if that was just regular Hook, I would guarantee she would fight back.
But she doesn’t in past encounters. Past Hook has been mean and condescending. Emma just lets her head be pat like a good little girl and listens to the guy because surely he knows best. This normally comes across as “you don’t have to worry about me, Emma.” He dismisses her fears as unimportant because he sees himself as too important/a survivalist and therefore her emotions are unwarranted. Then there are the things he says without knowing he’s the DO that are pretty disturbing: like the liked her walls, an aspect of Emma that she herself is trying to overcome herself, with the help of her family, friends, and son. Hook can help…but he takes sole responsibility for knocking them down (I liked your walls, I liked that I knocked them down). And she lets him. She doesn’t even voice anything about Henry–the person who should get sole credit, if anyone, for toppling Jericho.
But Emma showed a lot of strength throughout the half season by simply not giving in to the darkness.
She did not give into the darkness. You’re right. EXCEPT that her struggle is always negated by Hook. She spends her time like this:
Mute, overwhelmed, distraught, unable to cope with what’s happening to her, not sleeping, making dreamcathcers. And every time, it’s Hook who has to step in and save the “patient” as was once uttered. He is the one who takes her away from her problems and makes her focus on something else. He certainly should play a part in that because being a strong woman doesn’t mean that she can’t have a boyfriend, but when the boyfriend becomes the sole agent in your life, then that’s when I begin to suspect that you are no longer a strong woman character. Henry doesn’t alleviate her pain; Snowing have nothing to do. Regina does (but that’s largely due to another problem)….but it’s Hook. Almost without fault. In other words, Emma doesn’t so much as fight the darkness as she waits for someone (read: Hook) to come rescue her.
There is also the incredibly problematic issue that whenever the darkness gets too much, Emma goes hyper sexual. But maybe we save that for another time.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Feel free to unspoiler it after that certain episode airs.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Fight coordinator? Regina and Zelena have a magic duel maybe? Or maybe the two sisters vs Cruella?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Let’s not confuse horrible writing and plot with Emma as to whether she is a strong character anymore. That’s all I’ll say on the above quote I picked out.
How do you separate the two–Emma and writing/plot? You can’t. Emma isn’t some independent variable in the equation who can freely act without regard to plot and writing. She doesn’t stand outside the plot and writing. She, the fictional character, is affected by both. How she is presented as a character is determined by said horrible writing and plot. She’s not in a vacuum. You can’t separate out character from plot and how the writers literally write both of those.
I have more to say about what you wrote, but that’s going to have suffice for now because I have to peace out for awhile but I really wanted to address your first point.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"On another note, it looks like we may not be getting a special. This time around, a repeat of “Swan Song” is set to air as the lead-in. You would think we’d get a special for the 100th episode, but I guess plans could still change or a special could still air elsewhere: http://www.disneyabcpress.com/abc/pressrelease/once-upon-a-time-swan-song-36-rebroadcast-oad-12615/
Yeah, you’d think we’d be getting one for sure. For what it’s worth (and I don’t take it as much given the source) but Wikipedia lists “Behind the Magic”–which aired back in Dec– as the special in between 5A and 5B. But that would be weird given that it was never promoted as such. Maybe the special comes before 522/23?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also…we can go ahead and stop calling Tony Perez the Valet. 100 episodes into this show I think the jig is up that he’s Henry Sr.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Meanwhile, in an Enchanted Forest flashback, a familiar face from the Evil Queen’s past returns to present Regina with the perfect birthday gift,
…whyyyy is this part of this episode? Guys, give up the flashbacks. You don’t need them at every turn.
Julia Tortolano as Blueberry Pie Gal
O_o
Also, no MRJ in the press release but I wouldn’t say that definitely means he’s not in the episode. If they are trying to surprise the audience, they’d keep him out.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’ll tackle my own questions
1) How do you define “strong women,” particularly in media?
There is a general misunderstanding that when people talk about strong women they mean “single” and that having a romantic partner–male or female–means losing your status as a strong woman. This is pretty definitely false. Having a significant other does not deter from your strong woman-hood. It can even add to it, if presented right. The reason why romantic relationships are brought up almost in a detraction-like-manner for discussions of strong women is because in media, often times, the romantic relationship becomes the entire center of the woman in question story. This romance becomes everything she is, not just one part of her. The romance drives her story more than her, her very self. That’s why when people talk about Emma as not being an example of a strong woman anymore, invariably, her romantic pursuits come up.
It’s not that Emma having a boyfriend means she is not a strong woman anymore, it means that Emma having a boyfriend is all her story is, means she’s not a strong woman.
Let me give an example of another character I think is a strong woman in media. One of my current favorites: Abbie Mills of Sleepy Hollow. Abbie has a lot of the hallmarks we associate with strong woman in media; she’s tough–she can hold her own in a fight; she’s pragmatic and just–she’s concerned with the well being of those around her, both physically and emotionally. Her partnership with a man (Ichabod) is one of equals; she is not the damsel in distress to his white knight and in fact Sleepy Hollow usually lets the team take turns saving each other. Abbie has romances, but they are not her defining attribute. If the cosmic forces of evil are knocking at the door, Abbie Mills does not have time for her boyfriend’s man pain. She has a sister who is the thing she loves most in this world and what matters to her–her sister, the universe, the fight for good–comes before any sort of boyfriend worries. This isn’t to say that she doesn’t want a love life. She had one and could again at any time she chooses to, but she recognizes that what is more important to her is stopping the various evils that visit her little hamlet.
Before I bring this back to Emma, it’s important to note something about the heroes journey. I’ve discussed this so much recently that I’ll be brief: the heroes journey is ultimately about self discovery for the hero. Yes, yes, they go on some wonderful adventure and defeat some sort of cosmic evil and are usually lauded as the Best Hero Ever but it’s about discovering their own inner power. While their journey includes other people–friends, family, loved one–it’s about their inner selves and discovering what kind of man/woman they are.
This brings us to Emma in s5A. S5A could have been a really empowering season for Emma and for the idea of strong women. It’s her hero journey after all. It could have been about accepting the darkness as being something that the light needs for balance. That light and dark are two sides of the same coin and the Savior is capable of of using/having both because the Savior knows herself well enough to know when light is necessary and when darkness is necessary. Emma recognizes that darkness cannot exist without the light and that the light needs the darkness in order to know what light even is. This, in my own head, meant that in the end, Emma breaks her own curse by accepting all the parts of herself–good and dark. She doesn’t have to give up the darkness so much as make it a part of her power. She can use light and she can use dark and in accepting that dual nature, she breaks the singular hold the darkness had on her and becomes Vintage! Emma again.
This is not what happened. Not even close. Instead it became all about a boy. Emma’s entire plan and journey in S5A was about Hook. It was about Hook’s pain, Hook’s anger, and Hook’s bloodlust but disguised as being about Emma. When the veil is finally lifted and see the whole story of the season, we realize it was never about Emma: it was about Hook. This is a problem because of how the story was framed by the writers…Emma’s journey into the darkness (something all heroes must do) and how she deals with it. But she doesn’t deal with it; she doesn’t even break her the darkness’s hold on her, Hook does with his sacrifice.
Along with this, Emma was given almost no screentime with other characters that were part of her strong woman make up. Henry appears only when the plot needs him to be there–and the one episode (505) that focused on Emma and Henry (and Regain) felt like the most organic of the show in a long time because it removed Emma’s love interest for a significant amount of time and focused on Emma as Savior (the return of Operation Cobra with the horse), a friend (encouraging and being encouraged by Regina), and mother (her adventure with Henry both in Camelot and SB).
Along with disconnecting Emma from her son, the show never let her talk with her parents until the very end. They were snubbed, forced to stand on the sidelines and just be sad people without doing anything to try and reach their daughter. This felt like a lie especially after the SDCC promo was Snow’s voice over trying to explain how she would not let the Darkness take her daughter.
This brings us to the end of the arc in which Emma can’t see beyond losing her boyfriend. She’s not even able to think complexly about the fact that while Hook died in an effort to rid the world (and her) of darkness (something Emma calls heroic), he did it by trying to send her entire family, including her son, to Hell. He also killed Merlin and enacted the Dark Curse. Emma doesn’t even bother to ruminate on any this; it’s simply that she cannot live without her boyfriend. In other words, Hook’s life has more value to her than any sense of justice. The same can be said when she locked up Will for “interrupting her date” or refused to chase after him in the first place because she wanted an evening with Hook.
Along with this is the declawing of Emma. There is really one instance I am going to talk about. In 5×10, DO Hook really lays into Emma with a lot of nasty things. The nastiest being that Emma will always be an orphan. What bothers me most about this is that Emma just stands there and lets herself be an emotional punching bag. She doesn’t retaliate with the knowledge that her family loves her–so much that they are trying to save her, even in the present day, and that they crossed realms for her. Not only her family, but the entire town that adopted Emma as not only the Savior but also a friend and part of their wonky, weird family. She’s not an Orphan. Snow told her so back in NVL. While what Hook said really drove home the fact that he, as the DO, is really horrible, it totally robbed Emma of her character. Emma who said in S1 that everyone tries to tell you who you are, but you have to fight back and say “no this is who I am!”
THAT was a strong woman. Someone who refused to let anyone but herself define who she was. Now she lets her boyfriend do it, forgiving him because “oh, darkness!” and then decides that her life is worth more than her self-respect.
So, in sum: no, Emma is not a strong woman anymore. Not because she has a boyfriend but because she lets that fact define her entire existence.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The discussion on Rumple seems to be wrapping up for the most part, so I thought we could move on to another character who is fraught with different opinions–somewhat startling given that, no matter where you stood romance wise, everyone at the beginning mostly really liked Emma Swan and agreed that she was a strong woman who was at the center a highly complex story about selfhood and family.
I’m going to start us off with a basic question, but one with a precursor.
1) How do you define “strong women,” particularly in media?
2) Is Emma, as she stands right now post episode 5×11, an example of a strong woman?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"After reading the three scenarios, I’d say that the third one would be the most organic and true to the show as it stood in S1. But that’s the problem. Is the show the same that it was in S1? My answer continues to be a resounding no and while the third option would show a complexity, we’re back to the idea that the show has boiled down its characters and story to the most basic terms. In other words: Rumple will either get the Hero treatment (full life with Belle and a new baby) or the Villain treatment (learns valuable lesson but still dies because of own evil doings, thus leaving behind Belle and new Baby and continuing on the abandonment issues but this time with a mother who will ensure that the baby grows up knowing both sides of his dead dad).
If I had to guess, based on the trajectory of the show, it’s option b: Villain Treatment.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
