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Just, there is a bit of sadness in seeing the storyline that I hoped for back when Neal died play out around Hook
Yes.
I still miss Neal. He left a hole in this show that I can’t see around.
[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"With one month to go before 5B, I think we’re all becoming a bit restless because 1) we all love to talk and 2) we all have a lot of opinions. However quite often the conversation gets localized to shipper threads which have been designated safe havens for shippers to praise/critique the show without going up against too much opposition.
This, of course, means that most of the conversation is happening in shipper thread(s). It can be daunting because the conversations become unwieldy and highly unfocused. Therefore, an experiment/compromise of sorts. A little over a year ago, we spent an entire hiatus going through character threads and having really great conversations. I asked a series of questions to get the ball rolling and people responded in turn.
I’d like to try this again because the conversations being had are great ones with informed and well argued opinions but because they are taking place in shipper threads they are either one-sided or bog down the purpose and main conversation of the shipping threads.
With that in mind, I propose that we open the character threads for 3 of the biggies–Rumple, Emma, and Hook. The conversations will be polite and well argued but free from “safe haven” rules of shipper threads–meaning that you can defend or detract a character and expect responses of agreement and disagreement with recrimination.
We’ll start with Rumple.
I think, unlike a year ago, I’m only going to ask one question since Rumple is such a big and divisive character.
1) What informs Rumple’s character the most: is he a coward? A bad man? A good man? A hero? A father? Addict? Or something else? Is there an ageist or classist or other bent to him?
*claps hands* Discuss.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"God a lot happened here today.
I have thoughts, opinions, and a need to drink. But I also have to podcast so that’s probably not a good idea right now.
I would like to say one thing before I go, though. Please remember (and this is a very firm suggestion) that the SF thread is not the catchall thread. We do tend to talk about the show as a whole and where we think it went wrong, but it mostly has to do with Hook/CS and the fandom’s reaction to that. I would ask (beg, please….demand, even)that if we are going to discuss other characters who are NOT directly related to SF either as part of it or the opposite of it–Emma, Neal, Henry, Hook–then we please use the character threads we have set up over the years. In case anyone forgot, I created this 2 years ago to help people locate those threads.
Never ever be afraid to reopen those threads.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I take it you don’t have much of an inroad with the fandom at large? Or are just now getting your feet wet?
I try to stay away from fandom pages and ship wars etc. for this very reason: because people get all hot and bothered over a line or an action. I stay independent and look at both sides. It just appears like I’m a Hook fan because I’m the only one defending his character a bit here, but that’s only because everyone else is dumping on him. I certainly know his flaws very well.
Okay a few things
1) if you’ve stayed away from the fandom then that’s fine but please don’t try to assume how the fandom has reacted and make it part of your argument. My response that you quoted was about how CSers didn’t take the “jab you with my sword” line as romantic. They certainly did. The ship wars of this fandom and the treatment of the characters is long, sordid, and outlandish. And while it might seem excessive now, I can assure you this is the mildest it has been in years.
2) It’s natural that you might want to defend a character but as you and I have already discussed this is a shipping thread. Specifically a SwanFire shipping thread. It is a designated safe haven. We are allowed–100%–to dump on Hook, on CS, and the narrative of those two without facing recriminations or being expected to go 20 rounds with someone who doesn’t like what we have to say. The same applies for the CS thread and Neal if those shippers so chose–and I can guarantee you that they have in their thread. You are more than welcome to join in the conversations we have here but if you don’t like reading about Hook and CS being dumped on here, then I encourage and ask that you ignore it. We have a Hook character thread or you can start your own thread if you want to have this sort of debate.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Han and Leia works so much better cause Leia called on Han’s crap, and she kissed her brother to prove a point.
And because Han was never conceived of as a villain. He was a rouge–and a charming one at that–but he not was set up to be a villain. He may have had some less than altruistic reasons for joining up with Luke but he still helped them, he still fought for them and their cause. He never beat a woman, never got a woman drunk to take her back to the Millennium Falcon for sex, he never left Leia and Luke to die. He could be cheeky and sarcastic but if those were his only crimes then I call it a wash with his good deeds of helping to end Darth/The Emperor. We’ve already established that horrible people/villains do bad things in narrative to help the audience understand how the writers want you to feel about them but like HJ said, the expectation isn’t that they get to date/be the TL of the heroine without so much as a “so sorry” and any sort of atonement.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"They did? Seriously? I thought this was a thing that fans came up. I’m so confused. Whose wish, what was its fulfillment, and what, for the love of everything that is holy, was epic about it? Is this a direct reference to CS? Seriously, this confuses me.
Slurpeez already gave you the quote but yes they did. I think it’s because they picture Hook to be the akin of Han Solo, a character they’ve always wanted to be and have idolized for his “hearthrob/bad boy ways.” Hence…Princess Leia goes to a ball in a pretty red dress with their version of Han Solo.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
