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Let’s not get toooooo bogged down in this conversation, at least not in this thread. It is the filming thread after all, used for spoilers of what’s going on on set. Feel free to make another thread for the canon debate, by all means.
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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Yeah, that’s Frozen money right there. That makes no sense except when you consider the Shark Jump of Frozen. S2 to S3 = decline. S3 -S4 = decline. S4 – S5 = increase. Wut? Frozen. Because the opening episode for the Frozen arc got a 3.5 and the subsequent episodes stayed around the same before the fall (ending us at a 1.9).
I mean I still don’t get why advertisers would agree to giving the show more money with 4B’s ratings decline, but what do I know.
Yeah I don’t either. I’m not sure what the logic behind that it, but there can really be no doubt that the reason why S5 got more money after several seasons of decrease in revenue was because of Frozen.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"As for the new showrunner, it’ll be interesting. Broadchurch is supposed to be fantastic though I’ve not watched it, but those episodes of Doctor Who listed certainly aren’t amongst my favourite.
I think Chibnall and Moff suffer from opposite problems.
Moff is a brilliant one-off writer. Blink, the Library episodes, even this years Xmas episode…all brilliant, funny, clever but without being too complicated. The punchlines at the end of those episodes (Sally tells the Doctor everything he needs to someday help her; CAL is a little girl/River dies; River and the Doctor spend 20 years at the Singing Towers) all make sense and have a lot of emotional weight.He is not a brilliant show runner because he likes BIG and FLASHY over substance and he tends to get too bogged down into making each episode feel cinematic. He loses a lot of emotional follow through because he wants to get to the next storyline. His big narratives tend to be BIG and COSMIC but too confusing and unexplained.
Chibnall is very good one off writer but not stellar as evidenced by his DW body of work, but better still he’s a really great showrunner just based on S1 of Broadchurch and his work on Torchwood (he worked REALLY close with Davies on it). He also does some phenomenal character work; again I point to Broadchurch.
Also, how have you not seen Broadchuch? You’re British. It’s a crime against nature to not have watched S1 and marvel at Tennant and Olivia Colman. The Queen is judging you right now.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"It is not necessarily the death itself, but how it happened and what followed.
But that’s not a shark jump. That’s a turning point that leads to jumping the shark; that’s why I said Neal’s death was SOMETHING but not a shark jump. Jumping the shark occurs when a show is in decline and needs some sort of outlandish storyline, guest or new character in order to draw ratings and viewers with the main goal being to stay on the air for longer. But in order for a shark jump to happen, what came before has to be a lackluster, poorly received, declining show. You can’t have the Fonz jump over a shark in the first three seasons because the show was still popular, highly rated, and laudable. He only jumps over the shark in S5 when the viewers are leaving in droves and the show is becoming long in the tooth. The writers want to keep it slogging on for another few seasons so…insert a literal shark jump (and hence the term). The quality never again picked up, but the main goal (staying on the air by having people tune in for this “big event”) was achieved.
Season 1-3A was not that decline. In fact, a good portion of fans think those are the strongest storylines of the show because they are about family, strong women, and mostly good morals instead of about romantic love, ships, and women who depend on strong men.
The problem we’re suffering from in this thread is definition because everyone knows the term “shark jump” but aren’t really applying it properly. Neal’s death is a turning point that shifts the themes of the show from family to romance. Frozen is the shark jump designed to get viewers to stay so that the show can slog on for another few years (a goal that was achieved because the first few episodes out of the gate for 4A was so high that the the fall to the end of the season was longer and not as steep which allowed ABC to very easily agree to a S5)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Oh, one other thing that I do think qualifies Frozen as being a shark jump (even with the “it fits!” qualifier from my first post). The arc of S4A largely focused (almost exclusively) on the Frozen gang. They were not guest stars who only appeared when the main cast needed them to, but they more or less took over the show. Almost every centric had then worked in somehow, something OUAT has never done before. Every scene with the exception of the long arching Author search was tied to Frozen and what the Frozen crew needed.
It’s like bringing on a really cute kid and making every episode about that cute kid and their antics, taking time away from the other characters. (Looking at you Cosby show, when they introduced Olivia to the character line up).
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"There have been some other would-be-shark-jumps though, again, I’m not sure if they 100% qualify.
–S3A finale. It was a giant reset button (A and E have even called it that); it was designed to bring new viewers in by allowing the show to start over. BUT it was never advertised. Only those of us who watch the spoilers knew what was going to happen at the end. It was hyped to the extent that shark jumps often are. It also didn’t save the show. The ratings continued to be in line with S3A….until Frozen at the first few episodes of 4A.
–Emma becomes the Dark One. Everyone by this point has accepted that Emma is the true savior and ultimate wielder of light/true love magic. Oh no! She’s been infested by the Darkness. Just as the audience was about to look away, the rules of the game changed. Suddenly the Savior is the Devil. Problem is, it fits with Savior mythology. It’s familiar enough to people who read Harry Potter (or…any high fantasy) or have watched BtVS or Star Wars. The Hero is corrupted/tempted into the Dark Side.
–Neal’s Death is a huge turning point for a lot of us here, obviously, but I don’t know that it’s a shark jump. It was illogical, disingenuous, with no emotional follow through but that’s the problem. It wasn’t a totally outlandish storyline that yielded more outlandish storylines. It barely registered to the characters at all. Neal’s death is something to the narrative of this show, but I don’t think we can label it shark jump.
–Hook and Emma kiss in NVL: hyped to the hilt. We had gifs, pictures, articles, and video up to TWO WEEKS before the episode aired. It was all over social media. You couldn’t avoid the spoiler even if you wanted to. But it didn’t really do anything for the ratings on the show. That episode, 305, had a very slight uptick but in the end, 305 was about middling in terms of ratings for that arc, S3A. However not all shark jumps work. Some most definitely do. The Frozen arc most definitely got us to a S5 because the ratings started off so much higher. But if the CS kiss was a shark jump, it was a failed one because while certain corners of the fandom ate it up, it didn’t do anything to bring new viewers in. It also isn’t *totally* outlandish. Even some of the most ardent SFers agreed that Emma and Hook would have a small relationship before parting ways, her for Neal and he for the sea.
The short answer is really: you’re asking a complicated question that has a complicated answer.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"The issue, again, is that word improbable. We’re going to be in the realm of the dead. To not see them–both Neal and Graham–would be strange if you just think within the confines of the story, not the extra narrative of what’s happened in the outside world in the past few years (Jamie’s rising stardom, fandom wars, new shows, ect). Seeing dead people in the Underworld isn’t improbable, so unless the writer of the article is using that word loosely then it doesn’t refer to Neal/Graham. Neal might still be appearing (less likely is Graham) but this blind item could be hinting at another show/character.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"http://comicbook.com/2016/01/22/steven-moffat-leaving-doctor-who-after-season-10-broadchurch-cre/
Steven Moffat is stepping down from Doctor Who after S10, which will air in Spring 2017. There will be no Doctor Who in 2016. Chris Chibnill who created the wonderful Broadchurch will be stepping in as showrunner.
Previously Chibnill as heavily involved with Torchwood. He’s written several DW episodes including:
–42
–The Hungry Earth/Cold Blood
–Dinosaurs on a Spaceship
–The Power of Three
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Shark jumping is a term that means a stunt or story line designed to bring back viewers. The jump is often over the top, loud, shiny, and disingenuous to the show as a whole.
It’s hard to answer because of that last part. In a way, yes, because that’s what the Frozen arc was. It was meant to draw viewers who had fled back in and bring brand new viewers to the show. It capitalized on the Disney phenomenon when it was still hot instead of waiting until the movie had become a classic or at least aged a few years. A and E even admitted that they had a different ending for S3B but changed it to Elsa in the barn after they got permission to do Frozen.
The problem, I guess, is that while it was clearly meant to be a ratings grab (and, to be fair, a grab that worked for the first 3 or episodes) it does fit with the themes of the show. I didn’t care for it at all, but the idea of a hidden villain (the Duke), sisterly love (Elsa and Anna), and a misunderstood woman with powers (Elsa) fits pretty comfortably in the show. It wasn’t disingenuous to most of the fabric of the show.
So was Frozen a shark jump? Yes but with the caveat that it might be a logical one.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
