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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
Harry meeting Ron first, as opposed to Dean, is a matter of luck, as Ron’s mother said.
The problem is trying saying that there’s nothing behind luck or behind. That it’s all random circumstance. A matter of luck could very well be fate pushing them together. There’s no evidence for it, but also no evidence against it and, like I said a page back in a world where magic exists and we do have prophecy and, maybe more to the point, in a story where Harry’s survival and success often depends on having Ron and/or Hermione by his side, I’m not going to discount a little bit of fate where Harry, Ron and Hermione are concerned. That’s really all I’m trying to get at here. What we might call luck or chance is really fate/magic working in the world.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I AM A MERMAID
Done in Caron Simply Soft “Autumn Red” “Pumpkin” and “Cool Green”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Chance, on the other hand, isn’t predestined; things didn’t have to be that way. It could have been any magical family who helped Harry onto the Hogwarts Express. It was random whom Harry set next to on the first train trip to Hogwarts. In story, there was no “hand of fate” (other than J.K. Rowling’s hand) which meant Ron had to be the one to befriend Harry first, since as I wrote, it could’ve just as easily have been Dean, Seamus, or even Neville to befriend Harry first
Sure, I agree that he could have met any other wizarding student BUT you change that one factor–Ron–and it’s a whole new ballgame. Are Dean, Seamus, or Neville going to be as loyal, brave, and willing to go on as many adventures and put themselves as much danger as Ron does? Maybe. But to the extent that Ron is? To the extent that Hermione is? I personally don’t know.
I mean, I agree that maybe we should couch the conversation for a bit since it’s a broad topic but I sort of reject the notion that Harry’s story would have played out the same way had it been someone else that he befriends on that train. Ron isn’t just a blank character and that inserting any other character could do the same part (in universe, out of universe JKR would choose anyone she wanted) and neither is Hermione. It has to be those three for Harry’s story to play out the way it does. You change one factor and I don’t know how the story goes. Again, it’s that perfect storm of events and characters. You have to have scared and insecure Ron and scared and insecure Hermione to be able to stand behind an equally scared and insecure Harry while he goes down Monomyth road.
You say there is no Hand of Fate in universe but how do we know? Because while lack of evidence is not evidence itself, even characters in universe seem to think that there might something bigger at play pushing those three souls together.
“Half our family does seem to owe you their lives, now I stop and think about it … Well, all I can say is that it was a lucky day for the Weasleys when Ron decided to sit in your compartment on the Hogwarts Express, Harry.” (HBP, chapter 19)
I dunno. What you’re calling chance and what Molly Weasely calls luck could very well be fate pushing and pulling and never making itself known. There is probably no definitive answer here and like the Sorting Hat, we could go on for ages (and just to clarify, I’m just prodding and poking, not trying to argue or make life difficult for anyone…I just happen to think this is a very interesting thread and theme and now is at least a good time to mention in since Hermione just became part of Team Harry).
I just think that in a world where there is magic, we can’t discount fate working behind the scenes, even if we never have tangible proof.
Fate, destiny, whatever you want to call it, the point is…maybe they met for a reason. Maybe something good came out of them being together.
(yeah, I just used Nealfire to make a point. *hug tackles* )
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"That may seem like a paradox, but ultimately, some things are within our control (how we treat others) while other things are not in our control (who are parents are, for example).
It’s a paradox but only a minor one largely because that’s how a lot of fantasy stories operate (and broadly, how much of literature operates. And…heck, how the non-fictional world operates). People have free will; it’s a staple of our culture and certainly not something we want to give up and when confronted with people losing said free will, we tend to react negatively. But a lot of people also believe in some sort of higher power–whatever you want to call that higher power–that is guiding humanity (fictional, non-fictional) along the way to some sort of specific to individuals but also general to the world endgame. So, a paradox, perhaps, but one that fits with how many authors construct their world and how we understand our own.
What might separate HP from some other fantasy sagas is that if magic does have agency it doesn’t make itself overtly known. There is no scene in which magic somehow breaks the fourth wall and informs the audience that it exists as is somehow pulling certain strings to achieve its desired endgame. For example at no point does magic show us that it did “a thing” to ensure that Harry met the Weasleys at the platform. Now, I agree that Harry would never take to the Malfoys and Draco, but there were hundreds of other families that he could have run into, other perfectly ordinary magical families with good children who are not prejudiced or have a history of being on Team Voldemort.
I go back to that chapter (Platform 9/4) so much when I think about this topic because it’s the perfect confluence of events. Harry is desperate; he’s loosing time before the train departs; the Muggles are beginning to notice; he’s thought about sending Hedwig somehow to Hagrid; he’s thought about what would happen if he was forced to return to the Dursleys’. Then…almost like magic…Mrs. Weasley is heard directing her children. Another moment longer and who knows what Harry would do: go back to Privet Drive? Run away? Start running around King’s Cross like a mad man (which results in Vernon picking him up, believing him to be “mad” confirming his long held suspicions and locking him up forever). The last one is might be extreme but it’s well within the realm of possibility given what we know of Harry and Vernon.
You mentioned that Harry befriending Ron is more chance than fate, so I turn this question back at you: what’s the difference?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Just adding my own thoughts. Like Rumple, Emma doesn’t go full evil in the beginning. She could even separate the evil and good inside her. Thus being two different people. The Dark Swan and the Light Swan. Or it’s a twist no one has even thought of yet.
I’m fine with her having two different aspects, just like Rumple did, but Rumple did not actually become two separate people, rather his inner goodness and love (for Belle and Bae) peaks through the darkness to show us what kind of man he truly was. Emma going from Dark!Swan to Light!Swan by actually becoming an entirely different entity isn’t exactly keeping with the themes of the show that good always wins. It should be Emma’s love for Henry, her parents, ect peaking through Dark!Swan during emotional moments. This feels like she’s both the Dark!Swan and they’re riffing on the Swan Princess storyline.
I’ll grant that we don’t this is what is really happening and it’ll make more sense once we see it in the show but I’m a little…apprehensive.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Oooh new people popping in! YAY!!!
Lots to respond to this morning. *drinks coffee* here we go
She always raises her hand to answer a teacher’s question, find every opportunity to mention “I’ve read all about it in…”, and tells Ron how to properly do magic. That attitude can easily come across as condescending, which is a natural turn off.
Agreed with that, for sure. No one likes to feel less than and I think Hermione makes those around her feel that way, not because she’s mean spirited or anything, but simply because she is incredibly smart and doesn’t understand why her enthusiasm is met with derision. And it shouldn’t be that way, but like I said children (and, to be honest, adults) are mean and when we feel inferior we always cast blame on the person making us feel that way.
Honestly, I probably would have. I can relate to being interested in several classes, to the point where it was noticed by both teachers and fellow students. I know at least one classmate called me a “teacher’s pet”, because I was really into our Global History class, and our teacher definitely didn’t hide his enthusiasm for me. I also often have a habit of bringing up things I know about during a casual conversation.
Same. Hermione and I would have been buds BUT, with the caveat, that being such a competitve person, I likely would have resented and been inwardly jealous anytime she did something better than I, and would have relished if I did something better than her.
(RG is totally going to be sorted into Slytherin in the HP-verse)
I think eventually they would have. Either another event would have brought them together, or Harry would have felt sorry for Hermione and attempted to talk to her and get to know her better. Either way, I feel these three were always fated to be a team.
Ah yes FATE. Ok, so I’m going to quote Slurpeez’s response and then give my take:
Probably not. I think that it took a life-or-death incident to bring about that particular trio becoming friends. It’s possible that Hermione might’ve eventually gotten through to Harry and Ron, but I think it took her lying to the professors to cover for Harry and Ron after they saved her life that led to their friendship.
I think Slurpeez also makes a good point but this ultimately brings up a point I stated maybe 4 or 5 pages back: the role of fate and magic’s agency in the HP world. Does magic have agency? Or is it just a tool that wizards use in their daily lives? Is there something that ensured Harry and Ron met on Platform 9 3/4 instead of Harry meeting the Malfoys? Would fate push Harry and Ron to being friends with Hermione, troll incident or not? And when I speak of fate I don’t mean JKR who is obviously our outside God-like figure making sure these three end up together, but rather in universe is there such a thing as fate? And how does it interplay with free will?
Regina has that quote in 419, “Lily,” that “our actions are own but fate pushes us.” Does the HP universe work similarly?
So, for myself, I think they would have been friends somehow whether through Ron and Harry growing up and bit and not being so intimidated by Hermione and by Hermione tempering her condescending nature a bit OR through some other adventure-y type ordeal. I think somehow, fate would want them together.
Hermione has always been one of my favorite female characters. I cannot help but love her, because I sense a little bit of her in me, too. Hermione’s bookworm tendency is overcompensation.
Same. I think Hermione was also pretty lonely for most of her life, pre-Ron and Harry, and I can relate to that as well. Most of the kids in my high school really disliked me and didn’t have a problem showing it because I was “teacher’s pet” and very enthusiastic about school.
They both see Harry as inferior but I think that Dudley is worse because his hatred of harry, his own flesh and blood…. really does not come from anywhere
Good point. And this is also why I consider Petunia to be such a loathsome figure. This is her sister’s child and she locks Harry in a closet! I think, though, that Dudley is also a product of his environment, just like Draco. He learns by example and having Vernon and Petunia mistreat Harry so egregiously teaches him that Harry is not a person, but an object to be bullied and harassed and beaten. The big difference for me, I think, is that Draco wants to take away Harry’s enchanted life. Dudley seeks to make Harry’s mundane life miserable, but Draco would cause Harry to lose Hogwarts and this new magical world forever. I don’t know if there’s a worse fate than that for a witch or wizard.
I think when she received her letter, she was excited to learn everything she could about the magic world
I would also wager that learning she was a witch answered a lot of questions Hermione had about herself. I think like Harry she had experienced “odd things” happening to her but never knew why until that letter came. Imagine being given peace of mind knowing that you weren’t crazy, you’re just magical.
It’s a bit like tourists coming to a country and getting really excited about that country’s landmarks etc whereas that country’s residents are all like “what’s the big deal?”
You mean like me standing outside Big Ben taking 10000000 pictures of a giant clock while British people try to simply go about their lives? Or trying to climb on top of the lions in Trafalgar Square (I did not succeed….actually sort of fell off in the attempt…)
The passionate fan isn’t deliberately being mean, condescending or a know it all, they’ve just allowed their enthusiasm for the show to overtake their awareness of the feelings of others
That’s a really nice analogy. And highly apropos given the site we’re on.
The question isn’t “is Draco or Dudley worse”, it’s “Whose parents failed them more?”
This is a fantastic question and not one I have an answer to right now at this point in the series.
when we met the Malfoys, finally, we’ll have to revisit because YES I agree that’s the real question
I guess that leaves me with Keeper.
Probably keeper.
Same, Keeper. Though, I can’t really articulate why except that like Matt I think that’s what I’m left with. For sure not Seeker–I’m neither fast nor very good at spotting things with my eyesight. I’m not very keen on violence and always thought the Beaters were a bit harsh for a game. I think I could be a Chaser but I have a tendency to drop things….so, Keeper it is!
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"I’m bothered by that promo for the same reason that Keb is, and it goes both ways. The show is making it sound like you are either BAD or GOOD but that’s actually totally antithetical to what OUAT has stood for all 4 years of running. GOOD and BAD don’t really exist and everyone’s story reveals that we’re all capable of good and bad, we can be heroes and we can be villains and each story depends on where you’re standing.
Even before learning about what her parents did and going down the “darker” path in 4B, Emma was given to fits of rage, jealousy, greed, selfishness, and has lied, stolen, and been violent. She is not some ray of light in a dark and abysmal world. She’s….human. That’s it.
I know it’s a promo and is just trying to get hype for the new season but it’s not really doing a service to the show as a whole.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
