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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
It’s hard to say for sure. For one, I always did find it weird that Hermione Granger, the most intelligent and bookish student there is at Hogwarts, ended up in Gryffindor instead of Ravenclaw. Neville Longbottom also seemed like he would have been a natural fit for Hufflepuff, but he ended up in Gryffindor. However, later events in the series gave us a better idea why some people truly belonged in each house. It’s like the Sorting Hat is effected by fate.
Yeah Hermione is the “wait wut?” She’s absolutely brave; there’s no question of that. But does the Sorting Hat pick and chose which traits it thinks you have more of?
From Harry’s point of view, yes. As previously stated, Voldemort himself was in Slytherin house, and Draco ended up being sorted into it. Clearly he didn’t want to belong to the same house of two people he despised.
And this is essentially what Slurpeez and I were debating. I’m 100% fine with Harry not wanting to be in the same house as the guy who killed his parents, or the young boy who was cruel and mean to Harry’s first two friends. It does not a pleasant picture make for your future years at Hogwarts.
My issue lies in the fact that Harry (and to be fair to Harry, pretty much everyone–up to, and including the fandom) perceives Slytherin as all the same. Voldemort and Draco represent the whole instead of a select few. and consider this, had Voldemort never gone to Hogwarts and gained his first followers–from Slytherin–and then more after he left–also largely from Slytherin–would everyone still consider Slytherin to be the “evil” house? Or this is a new development in light of recent history?
And for a series that is so steeped in the ideas of prejudice and bigotry, I think people in universe and people out of universe are guilty are some negative thoughts towards the Slytherins that it doesn’t really deservs. It’s the whole, “not all Germans are Nazi’s” thing. There’s an interview with JKR that I’ll have to try and find where someone asked her why Slytherin house wasn’t ever banned or removed from Hogwarts, and her answer was essentially what I just said: it’s not an evil house, but people’s perception of it is.
Part of it could have had something to do with him being a Half-Blood. His dad is a muggle, while his mom is a witch. Harry was also a Half-Blood, which also could have complicated the Sorting Hat’s decision making.
That’s a pretty interesting idea. I was just really struck by the length of time it took for Seamus; it could just be JKR showing that the Hat really does try to weigh everything carefully but I wanted to hear other options.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"agree. I don’t think they should have Henry give her TLK for the reason that if a child/parent TLK could work, then why didn’t Bae try it on Rumple and why did the blue Fairy not suggest it?
PLOT
I don’t think Hook should TLK Emma because that would be too easy and if it didn’t work for RumBelle even though it started to, why the hell should it work for CS?
PLOT (also Twitter buzz)
Also, general note: please make sure your tagging spoilers, guys. I’ve had to edit a few posts in this thread in just the past 24 hours from peeps who’ve been here for like 3 yrs. Y’all know the rules, please and thank you.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"On a side note, if the writers decide not to have Hook’s father abandon him, then essentially Hook lied to Baelfire. He willingly deceived the boy so that he could get the information he wanted. That actually puts Hook in a negative light
Oh, I think they’ll still have Hook be abandoned, but it’s going to be far more complicated than what was originally written. Instead of his father being a coward and fleeing in the middle of the night, something else happened–like kidnapped–as an example, and Hook only believes that he was left behind.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Almost everyone in Storybrooke has had issues with their parents, but Snow White, Elsa, & Anna.
I would Elsa had some serious issues with her parents that were only resolved at the very end, but that’s seems like a fair list.
It’s not surprising for a few reasons. It’s exactly what was done on LOST and more broadly, our parents affect us quite a bit.
I’m reading this as a hint they are going to explore more of hooks back story this season. Obviously different than what was stated in the script.
Yeah, I don’t think this version of Hook’s father is going to stand (hence Adam wanting to make sure everyone knows it’s not Canon) but I do think we’re going to see it this season
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
Chapter 7: The Sorting Hat
Not Slytherin, eh?” said the small voice. “Are you sure? You could be great, you know, it’s all here in your head, and Slytherin will help you on the way to greatness, no doubt about that—no? Well, if you’re sure—better be GRYFFINDOR!”
Summary
Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hermione Granger and the other first years arrive at Hogwarts and are led into a small antechamber while they await the “Sorting Ceremony.” There is a lot of fear and trepidation about what this ceremony entails and Harry is scared that he’ll fail and be set home. The test, as it turns out, is quite simple. One of the many magical objects housed in Hogwarts is a very old, and slightly ugly, hat that when prompted opens a “mouth,” sings, and then proceeds to put each new student into one of the four houses at Hogwarts. Each house has its own symbol, set of colors, and overwhelming trait. Gryffindor is for the brave; Ravenclaw for the smart, Hufflepuff for the kind and Slytherin for the ambitious. As the list grows smaller and Harry draws closer to putting on the hat, he begins to seriously fear being put into the Slytherin house having learned previously that Voldemort was in that house and that his new “enemy,” Draco Malfoy, went into Slytherin before the Sorting Hat even touched his blonde head. When it comes time for Harry to don the cap, he engages in a silent battle of wills in which Harry begs the Hat not to put him in Slytherin, even though the Hat thinks that Harry would do very well inside the Snake House. With Harry’s mind made up that he cannot go to Slytherin, the Sorting Hat chooses Gryffindor instead, and Harry joins his new family. Ron Weasley and Hermione Granger also enter Gryffindor House. After a brief (and utterly mad) four word introduction from Professor Dumbledore, who is at his charming, twinkling, merry Old Wizard self, a huge meal is served and we begin to meet Harry’s new schoolmates. We also meet another professor at Hogwarts, though at a distance. Severus Snape is the Potions Master but, according to Percy Weasley, it’s the Dark Arts that Snape fancies. While watching a conversation between Snape and Professor Quirrell, Harry feels a sharp pain near his scar but ignores it. Harry and his new family are taken to the Common Rooms, located in a tower, and sent to bed. That night Harry dreams of himself wearing Professor Quirrell’s turban, with it telling him to go to Slytherin because it’s his destiny, before he hears a high cruel laugh and sees a flash of green light. When he wakes the next morning, Harry remembers nothing of this dream.
Analysis
Divergent
In 2011, Veronica Roth published her first novel in a brand new post-apocalyptic series called “Divergent.” I won’t give away the whole plot but a rough synopsis will suffice for what I am trying to illustrate. In her book, Roth sets up a world that is divided into factions. The members of these factions choose which faction they belong to on their sixteenth birthday in an elaborate ceremony. Often times, the teenager chooses to stay in the faction they were born into; but many times they choose to go with one that aligns more closely with their personality. These factions are based on certain key characteristics: abnegation, amity, dauntless, candor, and erudite and each faction takes their name from these traits. Within the society are individuals who are labeled “Divergent” meaning that they closely align with one or more faction to the point where the scientific tests run to determine where they would be happiest are inconclusive. The main heroine (and a startlingly high number of others as the novels progress) is Divergent. The main thrust of the series is really identity and that no one is one trait or the other. Everyone can be humble, peaceful, courageous, honest and smart. Humans cannot be reduced to a simple checklist.
Why am I bringing this up? Because upon re-reading I find that I am bothered by the Hogwarts sorting system. On the one hand careful and playful competition between students breeds better students because you are determined to “win” (in this case, the House Cup and bragging rights over all other houses). It is a team effort and requires all students to be on their best behavior, to be studious enough, and to be crafty enough to stay out of trouble (or at least not get caught). The system is not meant to foster hostility and my issues lies elsewhere, namely that at the tender age of 11 it is expected that a young child is self actualized enough to be placed inside a house with one or two defining characteristics, as if that student (and to be frank all students) are simply one thing or the other. Humans are not static. They grow; they evolve; they devolve even. You are not who you were at the age of 11. I’m not even who I was at the age of 25!
The Hogwarts schools are divided much like Roth’s factions. Or in colloquial terms, we might say that they are divided by cliché stereotypes. You have the nerds (Ravenclaw), the teacher’s pets (Hufflepuff), the jocks (Gryffindor), and the bad influences/losers/people you do not take home to momma (Slytherin). Many of us have discussed which house we would be sorted into should we attend Hogwarts. The conversation is often couched with “I’d hope” or “I’d think” because no matter how old we get or how well we know ourselves, we understand that, to quote Wordsworth, we “are large. And we contain multitudes.” The fact is that no one is simply brave, kind, smart, or ambitious and that is it. We are divergent. Let’s take one student as a case study, both in the real world and in the Harry Potter world.
I’ll use myself as an example for the real world. I often think that I’d be placed into Ravenclaw. I’ve always been bookish, academic, and smart. I’ve always enjoyed studying, school, and performing well in an academic setting. However, I am also ruthlessly ambitious to the point where I simply must be “the best” in the class and my own self worth is measured by how well others are doing comparatively. But, but the same token, I am kind to my friends; I’m a good listener, and I have an easy report with people I know well. I’m not necessarily brave (I won’t walk into a lion’s den on a dare) but I have uprooted my life several times and that takes a certain kind of courage. So where do I place? And at the age of 11, does a magical hat really know me so well—when I do not know myself at all at the age of 28, let alone 11—to place me in a house that is defined by character traits? Keep this in mind for the next analysis section because it’s very important for Harry.
Let’s look at a Hogwarts student. Take, for instance, Dumbledore and think about him on a broad scale from the beginning of the series to the end, without giving any spoilers about what he does or why he does it. We know he was in Gryffindor, meaning the hat must have thought him brave—and of course he was; he faced Voldemort several times and according to his chocolate frog, he faced Grindelwald, a thoroughly bad wizard back in the 1940s. Dumbledore is also the cleverest wizard of his age, and indeed perhaps one of the cleverest wizards in any age, a trait that Ravenclaw claims. Dumbledore, especially here in book one, is a sparkling, effervescent, kind old man who clearly cares for his students (his eyes sparkle when he thinks of the trouble the Weasley twins will get into) and he takes care of those he loves, like Hagrid whom Dumbledore kept on staff after Hagrid’s expulsion. However, we will learn, much later in the series, that Dumbledore is a very ambitious and cunning man—almost myopically so.
The hat’s magic is never really explained, and that’s honestly part of its charm. We don’t know if it sees the future, if it’s able to look into the deep recesses of your subconscious and flesh out who you are, at your core. Or is it that each student engages with the hat in the same way that Harry does? Does each student tell the hat where he or she doesn’t want to go and the hat realizes what the wearer is really asking? I somehow doubt this last one; I think Harry was one of the first students to ever stumble upon “talking back” to the Hat—it wouldn’t be the first time Harry was an exception to the rule.
My point is this: from a storytelling perspective, I understand why JKR has the house system. It helps in establishing everyday conflicts, like the ones between the Gryffindors and the Slytherins. It also helps in sporting events. It gives the audience an “everyman” enemy to root against before a cosmic enemy might enter the picture. However, from a psychological perspective, I’m not sure that the Sorting Hat is doing anyone a favor because of how limiting it is. It’s boxing up individuals as one thing instead of looking at the whole picture. The Hat doesn’t actually help students, does it?
Well. Except Harry.
Choice. The Problem Is Choice.
Harry Potter, under no circumstances, and in no uncertain terms, wants to be in Slytherin House. Apparently this goes against what the Hat wants, because Harry could be great in that house. But by sheer force of will and conviction, Harry pushes the Hat into putting him in Gryffindor, a house that Harry has heard nothing bad about and the house that his first friend, Ron, is hoping to get in to.
Harry has always been the exception to the rule. We learned this from the very first chapter where, for some reason, Voldemort is unable to kill the little boy. In a family of slothish and obnoxious Muggles, he was the active and kind Wizard. He stands out, from his broken glasses to his lightening bolt scar. And here in this chapter, once again, we have Harry becoming what appears to be the exception to the rule.
We don’t know if other students get to have a one-on-one chit chat with the hat. My guess is that they could if they wanted, but evidence points to Harry being alone in this tête-à-tête because some students don’t even get the hat on their head or aren’t wearing it for long. Or maybe a better way to put it is that while Harry is thinking, “please don’t put me in X” all the other students are thinking “please put me in X!” Ron walks up hoping to be put in Gryffindor. Draco walks up knowing he’s going to Slytherin.
The first thing we hear from the hat illustrates the point I was making the first section about how students are more than just one or two characteristics.
“Hmm,” said a small voice in his ear. “Difficult. Very difficult. Plenty of courage, I see. Not a bad mind either. There’s talent, oh my goodness, yes—and a nice thirst to prove yourself, now that’s interesting. So where shall I put you?”
Harry gripped the edges of the stool and thought, Not Slytherin, not Slytherin.There are two things that are very interesting about Harry’s choice. First, by choosing to not go where the Hat would apparently send him, Harry is declaring his own independent agency. This moment is all about that agency and the fact that Harry is finally starting to exhibit his own. The Dursley’s have literally been keeping him locked up and have made him an utter passive figure in their lives. They ignore him, they pretend he’s not there, to the point where he’s very silent for the first three chapters, as we discussed previously. This moment is about Harry having to decide who he is, something no 11 year old is ever really asked to do in such life altering ways. The world is more complex than “evil” and “good”—and to relegate those two terms to School Houses is way too simplistic—but Harry is choosing to fight whatever the Hat sees in him that would be a good match for the ambitious and cunning lot. Had he gone to Slytherin, it would have been a different saga. Far more grey, certainly. I don’t think Harry would ever have gone Dark Side or joined Team Voldemort, but Harry’s ambitions and cunning (for we cannot deny that he has both in spades, as the Hat points out) would have been far more present.
Secondly, Harry’s choice isn’t based on fact but on fear and more to the point uneducated fear. Thus far, all he has heard about Slytherin is that Voldemort was in it and that Draco wants to be in it (and later is placed there). It’s a house of ill repute! Well, for 11 year olds at least. But this is a bit of logical fallacy on Harry’s part. There is no way to say that every witch or wizard who went Dark Side was in Slytherin just like there is certainly no proof that every witch or wizard who was in Slytherin was bad. Like Dumbledore will say at a later date, “it’s our choices that show us what we are truly are.”
Everyone has a choice. A Gryffindor has just as much potential for the Dark Side as a Slytherin and a Slytherin has just as much chance to be a hero as a Gryffindor.
Potential Foreshadowing
1. Snape has a fondness for the Dark Arts
2. Harry’s scar hurting and Harry’s dream (wow, those hit you hard, eh?)
3. A reminder to stay out of the Forbidden Forest and not go near the third floor corridor.
Conversation Questions
1. Do you think the Hogwarts Sorting System is fair? Should it be replaced?
2. Is the Hat ever wrong?
3. Is Harry’s fear of Slytherin justified?
4. Congrats! You are now the Sorting Hat. Pick ONE character from OUAT and place them into a Hogwarts house, justifying your reasons and weighing if it’s a true fit.
5. As a very minor question, why on earth did the Hat take so long with Seamus Finnegan?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Reusing costumes is common, especially with limited budget but a big cast/crew and lots of CGI. Jack is a character that no one is going to remember well enough (apart from fandom) to go “ah ha! that’s Jack’s costume from three years ago!”
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Andrew and Kalinda talked about this in their 406 commentary. They said that they put it into a scrap box of ideas to play with at a later date if they wanted.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Of course it will be Hook. My hope counts for nothing because A and E are going to go the predictable, tired, cliche, and Tweetable route. We all know how it ends (whether it’s 510 or 522)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Henry or Hook kisses her, and boom, the Dark Curse is broken for good and Emma awakens
Oh lets have #Hope that there is no “or” after Henry. The barely able to stomach the “or” (and by barely stomach I mean that it angers me to the point of seeing red)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
