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[adrotate group="5"]"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
Also, we got confirmation that “Mother” is one of the episodes getting a commentary. I’m guessing with Jane Espenson and Lana?
I’d wager so. OR it could be Lana, Sean, and Bex (or any combo of those three)
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also, here’s a question. Obviously this is a re-read project so we won’t touch on the movies tooooo much, but probably the most famous–and often quoted–bit of dialogue from the movies is “Yer a wizard, Harry.” (I’m a…wut?)
Except that’s not what JKR wrote. I was actually startled reading this chapter again to remember that she wrote it “backwards” from how it appears in the movie. The power of visual media, I suppose. I remembered the movie line more than the novel.
Thinking about the first four chapters so far and how they are presented in the movie, did the movie do this call to adventure, Harry’s beginning life justice or not?
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Quite an interesting comparison with Cinderella. Rowling draws from so many fables, fairy tales, lore, etc, (and has been often criticized for it) but Harry really does have a bit of Cinderella to him
I find the criticism of Rowling and her pulling from tons of fables, fairy tales, lore, ect to be baffling. As if no other author has done that. I mean…what? Do they think CS Lewis just created all the things that were inserted into his book? I know his is an allegory (and again, we’ll have to talk about to what extent JKR’s works are an allegory) but it’s not as if Lewis wasn’t heavy handed. So was Tolkien. We consider him to the be Grandpapa of fantasy literature in the modern world, but it’s not as if he didn’t borrow extremely heavily from religion and tropes. The Similarion is just a lot of Bible tales told in Middle Earth, for pity’s sake.
There is a debate to be had (and I had it once with my classics professor) about whether there are truly any new ideas in the world, or whether we are just rehashing the same stories over and over again– the oldest stories, the first stories. All we do is change the lyrics a bit, but the song remains the same, in other words. What the debate boiled down to was that there is only one story worth telling: light vs dark, good vs evil. What changes is how that fight, that story, manifests itself in the world you create.
So the criticism against JKR might be a correct one, but you have to be fair…it’s the same thing everyone else does, from Tolkien, to Lewis, to George Lucas, to Michael Morcock, to George RR Martin to Adam and Eddy.
As for Voldemort’s remains, as we’ve been saying in regards to Once, no body equals no death (although we have issues there, too). We can’t disregard the fact that Voldemort is very likely not dead and therefore very much alive in some form or fashion.
With regards to this, did no one every try to go after Voldemort? Was an effort made to try and really figure out if he was alive or not? Did everyone just celebrate (in fact, we know they did. See, chapter 1) but not secretly wonder if he was really and truly gone. And again, I come back to Dumbledore and ponder if he didn’t smooth talk most of the Wizarding Community (like the Wizarding Gov’t) and assure them that all was well so that they wouldn’t go after Voldemort.
1. I think Petunia’s tirade makes me dislike her even more
I agree. We mentioned last chapter that Petunia stands out amongst the Dursley’s as our least favorite. Vernon is almost cartoonish in his villainy, but Petunia is the real “bad” here. It takes a special level of malice to treat your own blood this way and her outburst is clearly a lot of pent up rage and anger finally exploding–and the rage shows that she truly hates Harry.
We have a supposed ‘mentor’ who as of sixty pages into the story hasn’t yet interacted with the ‘hero’. It’s an interesting thing to exam as we go on.
It is odd because the wise old wizard is supposed to be the foremost helpmate of the hero. Giles coaches Buffy and takes over her training once appointed her Watcher. Obi Wan oversees Luke’s initial Jedi training. Gandalf safeguards Frodo, going so far as to battle a Belrog (you shall not PAAAAAS—I had to) to get the ring-carrying Hobbit to safety. Thus far, so far as we can tell, Dumbledore has just let Harry live a mundane, abusive life and even when it comes time to rescue him, Dumbledore acts in the shadows. We get references to him in this chapter–Hagrid clearly loves the man–but to some extent the admiration of Dumbledore from Hagrid doesn’t quite scan for the reader. If Dumbledore is this great, then why the elusive nature?
Is there a reason for the standoffish manner with the boy?
Looking at this through the “Sneaky Dumbledore is sneaky” filter, I think Dumbledore might have wanted to stack the deck: let the kid have an awful life in the muggle world so that his dangerous destiny in the wizarding world will seem preferably when the time comes.
Wow that’s diobolical. And yet somehow in line with the way we’ve seen Dumbledore presented thus far and certainly the way we’ve discussed him. Dumbeldore is presented as the finest wizard in the word, Hagrid basically calls him that in this chapter. What that means is that Dumbledore is probably insanely smart, gifted, talented, whatever. He probably knows how the human mind and the human condition works. I think it’s very probable that he knew and understood that if you allow Harry’s life to be as bleak as possible, then any alternative–however absurd–is relief and bliss.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Merlin & Zelena (I don’t know why, but I’ve got my suspicion they’ve crossed paths before)
So do I. Or else Zelena will become the new Will Scarlet and have nothing to do. They have to tie her to Camelot somehow.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Making my guess that it’s Mordred, devoted to Arthur but resentful of his beliefs or treatment of certain people.
I agree. It would be unusual not have Mordred in some form who is normally depicted as being against team Arthur.
It would be odd if this was a strictly Arthurian show that could play with the entire myth and legend. But at some point we need to ask how many influx of characters they should have before the core characters get drowned out (see for example S4A). We have the big three: Arthur, Guinevere, and Merlin. We also have Percival and Lancelot, the latter at least for one episode. There are scores of characters in the Arthurian mythos and we don’t need them all. This is to say nothing of the fact that we don’t know where in the cycle of Arthur and his legend we are come show time. Lancelot and Guinevere have parted, and Camelot seems to be cut off from everyone. The fact that Guinevere and Lancelot have parted and Gwen is still with Arthur suggests that they aren’t going full on tradition, so they could easily skip Mordred.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Also, she’s gonna kinda suck at the fighting, and other characters are gonna call her out on it. There’s sort of some inconsistency where she appears to be a bit better at it in one ep, and not as good at it in the next, then better at it again, (also they seem to disregard the fact that she kicked a couple people’s butts back in S1 because her dad had made her take defense classes, but they kinda wanted her starting from scratch with her S3 fighting), but in every fight you’ll see some of her kicks and punches hitting nothing but air, and she’s gonna get some injuries, because she’s just not experienced at it yet.
I just watched the next two episodes (after Ollie is “killed”) and thank god that Laurel isn’t all PERFECT HERO right off the bat. I’m glad she’s getting her butt handed to her. It’s not that I dislike Laurel Lance and wish her ill, but for her to be able to put on that mask and not have a serious learning curve (even if she did have some self defense classes) would be really inconsistent with what everyone else had to go through. Ollie? 5 years away from home where everyday was like one long training mission. Roy? Trained by Ollie (also Mirakuru….) Sara? League of Assassins training. I would have had a lot of issues had Laurel just gone in gun a’blazing and come out the other side without a scratch on her.
Ollie Ollie Ollie. I could write a long essay here about the heroes journey and how he’s “died” and come back and how this is supposed to make him a bit more enlightened, but something tells me that Ollie’s dark days are here to stay for awhile. I think this entire season is being set up as his walk through the underworld (metaphorically speaking)–and yes, I do know what the final scene of this season is, so don’t applaud my brilliance too hard. However, since I am only spoiled on major events and not the intricate details in between, I do look forward to seeing how death and quasi-rebirth/resurrection affect our dear Mr. Queen. He’s such a troubled soul as it is, that I can’t see a very real brush with death (and really, dying) not phasing him.
Olicity. I’m pretty sure I tweeted Phee in the middle of watching and just wrote, “my heart! it hurts!” I mean ouch. I don’t want to be a woman you love…I get it. I absolutely get it since what sets up that line is a long list of women Ollie loved and what has happened since but man…ouch. And compounding all of this is Felicity and Ray. We’ve had the problematic stalker trope and then he became “sad past” guy and now he’s going to, clearly, be “guy who got the girl” if only briefly. Still problematic. Still not a big Ray fan. Still frowning at the way media constructs interaction between men and women.
Merlyn go away. Ok, no don’t because I really love John Barrowman. But still…go away Merlyn. I don’t want to feel pity for you! The flashback to right after Merlyn’s wife died was really well done, especially the end where he shows up in Nanda Parbat (‘ello little Nyssa!). However, in spite of a few “aww poor guy” moments, I still don’t feel all that bad for Malcolm Merlyn. There is a line that ones does not cross, even when one is in extreme pain. Like, say, and Undertaking to destroy and kill thousands and thousands of people? I get the rage and anger because he’s sad that his wife died and in the fictional world, I can see him going after his wife’s killer as a moving storyline but the Undertaking was so egregiously disgusting and morally wrong that even with John Barrowman’s sad eyes, it just makes me twitchy whenever Merlyn is on screen. Also, can we please get Thea away from him?! Also…no Ollie don’t be trained by Merlyn. This is bad news bears. Bad news. BAAAAAD news.
I love Diggle. And that’s all I have to say about that.
Maseo and Tatsu and the flashbacks. I think I missed something. What exactly does this virus do? And what’s up with the blond lady? China White? Is she just “flashback enemy” who will have no bearing on the present day storyline (cause that’s clearly gone to Ra’s). However, on the whole I think I like Maseo more. His plan to get Tatsu back once she was captured by China White was impressive and I like that family comes first for him (he and Ollie have that in common).
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone
Chapter Four: The Keeper of the Keys
“Ah, go boil your heads, both of yeh,” said Hagrid. “Harry–yer a wizard.”
Summary
The events of chapter four pick up immediately from the previous with the great crashing at the door. The door gives way and a giant of a man, with bushy hair and eyebrows, enters the run down hut. Readers will remember this man from the first chapter of the novel as Hagrid, an associate of Dumbledore’s. Hagrid proceeds to make himself at home, chit chatting, while a shocked Harry, a confused Dudley, and an outraged Vernon and Petunia look on. Hagrid begins to talk to Harry about Hogwarts and Harry’s lineage; when it becomes clear to Hagrid that Harry has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about, probably the most famous line in the entire saga is uttered: after three full chapters, the “w” word is finally dropped and we can finally call the young Potter what he is, a wizard. Hagrid hands over the letter Harry has so desperately been longing to read and it’s an acceptance letter to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry.
Harry is confused at the whole matter and begins to inquire about his parents following a rather loud outburst from Petunia. It is at this stage that Hagrid gives Harry (and us) the bare bones exposition we’ve all been waiting for about who Voldemort is and what happened the night before Harry landed on the Dursley’s front porch. The long and the short of it is that Voldemort was a very evil wizard who, with the help of his followers, murdered any witch or wizard who tried to stand up to them, except Dumbledore. For reasons that are not clear to Hagrid, Voldemort targeted James and Lily Potter and killed them on Halloween, ten years ago. Voldemort then turned his attention to Harry, a baby, but for reasons that Hagrid does not understand, was unable to kill the baby boy. What happened after that remains a mystery to the magical world but Voldemort vanished that night, either disappearing forever or dead, according to Hagrid. Harry is, naturally, rather stunned by all this news but accepts his Wizard status after remembering all the times he did “something” that was rather extraordinary because of his emotional state. The chapter ends on a bit of a question mark with regards to whether or not Harry will go to Hogwarts since the Dursley’s are insisting that he cannot but Hagrid very adamant that Harry must.
Analysis
Bippity Boppity Boo
In a previous response, Matt brought up a very good reference point for Harry Potter which was the classic fairy tale “Cinderella.” Harry has led a rather unfortunate life, just like Cinderella. Both were orphans, raised in abusive situations, kept out of sight and out of mind, and with very little affection or love coming their way. For Cinderella, everything changes on a magical night in which she wishes to go to the royal ball. In spite of her best efforts, the evil stepfamily keep her from going and it is only through the intervention of her fairy godmother that Cinderella is able to flee the dreary life to which she is accustomed and move into the next stage of a decidedly more magical existence.
I would propose the following: Hagrid is Harry’s fairy godmother and JKR is carefully playing with the classic Cinderella story in this chapter. This is not to say that Cinderella is the only construct JKR is playing with; the idea of someone being the so called “keeper of the keys” invokes a lot of imagery, particularly of ferrymen in classic mythology, a being responsible for shuttling passengers from one world or life experience to the next. Hagrid fulfills this role as well, one such example being Charon, the ferrymen in Greek mythology (who works along side Ceberus, the three headed dog). But rather, for this analysis, I’m going to stay away from Greek mythology and focus on the fairy tale Cinderella.
Right away, we would notice that Hagrid does not look like your average fairy godmother. He is male, overgrown, hairy and bushy; his cockney accent stands out with every syllable and he appears to have some anger issues when it comes to the Dursley’s and Muggles in general. He neither sparkles nor sings and instead of a magic wand, he is carrying a ludicrous pink umbrella. He also carries sausages in his pockets that have attracted all manner of creatures.
While normal depictions of fairy godmothers would have an ethereal, clearly otherworldly, nurturing elderly woman cast in the role, JKR goes out of her way to subvert the normal and present the crazy. It’s almost a wonder that Harry doesn’t run screaming from this giant of a man who pulls food out from his pockets; it really says something about the absolute horror of Harry’s situation with the Dursley’s that he doesn’t find Hagrid frightening but rather fascinating and worth listening to.
However, in spite of these differences in appearance, Hagrid’s main role as fairy godmother is to inform, and moreover, to change the fortune of his charge, Harry. Look at Cinderella as the classic example. The fairy godmother only appears briefly and then it’s to change Cinderella’s life, to get her to the ball. This involves changing Cinderella’s wardrobe, changing other non-magical creatures into something else to aid Cinderella, and gifting Cinderella with a pair of glass slippers that become the ultimate sign of who Cinderella is later in the story. Hagrid, essentially, does all of these. I’ll take them one at a time.
The wardrobe is the hardest to pin down since Hagrid does not dress Harry in a new frock (or the male equivalent) but I think JKR wants something deeper here. Instead of the outward changing, Hagrid helps enlighten Harry’s insides. Instead of Harry thinking himself useless and unimportant, Hagrid lays Harry’s history bear and the fact is, Harry is incredibly important. Neither Hagrid nor anyone else in the wizarding world seem to know why Harry is important, but Hagrid insists over and over that Harry is not only famous but revered in the magical world.
The second item in my list is changing non magical items into magical ones. Throughout the chapter Hagrid does what would be, for him, normal everyday magical things, but that are abnormal and odd for Harry and his family. He lights a fire without any matches, he pulls an owl out of his pocket, and in the clearest Cinderella parallel for this criteria, he changes Dudley (half) into an animal.
He brought the umbrella swishing down through the air to point at Dudley–there was a flash of violet light, a sound like a firecracker, a sharp squeal, and the next second, Dudley was dancing on the spot with his hands clasped over his fat bottom, howling in pain. When he turned his back on them, Harry saw a curly pig’s tail poking through a hole in his trousers. Uncle Vernon roared. Pulling Aunt Petunia and Dudley into the other room, he cast one last terrified look at Hagrid and slammed the door behind them.
Notice a difference, though. Whereas the fairy godmother in Cinderella transforms animals into humans (or horses) to help Cinderella get to somewhere, in this case Hagrid transforms Dudley–a human–into an animal in order to get Harry away from something. The Dursley’s exit stage left and are not seen in this chapter again.
Finally, the trinket that is the ultimate sign of self. For Cinderella it is her glass slippers. For Harry, I would argue, it’s the letter. The Hogwarts letter has been the object that was always just out of reach for Harry before Hagrid showed up; now that he’s there, Harry gets to read the full contents, at last. This letter leads to a long discussion about who Harry is, who his parents are, and the other world that he never knew existed. Like Cinderella’s slippers, the object is dear to Harry and proves who he is (a wizard) just like the slippers are confirmation that Cinderella is who she says she is (the girl from the ball). In both cases, the object in question is gifted to the hero by their magical fairy godmother figure.
Finally, one other difference and it’s an important one. There is in both Cinderella and Harry Potter the importance of time. For the former, the stroke of midnight is her cue that the magic and spells are at an end. She is expected to be back home by this time or else face her dress, her coach, and her entourage turning back into what they once were–unmagical and normal. For Harry, it’s the opposite. At exactly the stroke of 12, on his 11th birthday, the magic begins. Instead of facing life back in the abusive household of his stepfamily, Harry’s fairy godmother shows up to whisk him away to a land of enchantment. This also goes back to a point I brought up in the Chapter 1 analysis about the magical world existing when the mundane has gone to bed and turned out the lights. Harry will still be 11 come sunrise, but the magical world operates best in this liminal stage of yesterday and today.
Harry Potter: This Is Your Life
Obviously the big denouement here is Hagrid revealing that Harry Potter is a wizard but we also get a (semi) full exposition on Lily and James Potter and Voldemort. To some extent this is knowledge that most had gleaned from the first chapter, though Hagrid goes into more detail. There are a few things to pick up that are important thematically.
First, Voldemort isn’t just bad–he’s “worse than worse.” He’s as bad as a wizard could ever possibly go. Down the road a bit we should discuss the nature of evil in JKR’s world and whether or not Voldemort is pure evil or if we can ascribe OUAT’s famous “evil isn’t born, it’s made” theory to the Dark Lord. For now, it’s enough to have Hagrid’s subjective (though clearly popular) opinion that Voldemort is just evil. Something that is also made more clear here is that Voldemort gained a number of followers in his time roaming the wizarding world. Again, the conversation should turn to what is the nature of evil in this world. Are these followers, many of whom we will meet down the road, evil or just misguided? How does JKR conceptualize evil in her novels?
We are also informed that Voldemort has vanished–some believed dead and some believe that he is just biding his time, waiting to come back. Even if you have not read the series before, Voldemort being gone for good seems highly unlikely. After all, the hero needs someone to fight!
Opposed to Voldemort’s “worse than worse” are Lily and James Potter who, according to Hagrid: “your mum and dad were as good a witch an’ wizard as I ever knew.” Again,the conversation that could be had, along side the Voldemort one is, how does JKR conceptualize good in her world? What makes LIly and James good while Voldemort bad? Is it that Lily and James never gave in to the Dark Side? Is it possible that Hagrid is romanticizing Lily and James given that they are now dead? It’s a common thing to do; a human thing to do. When someone dies we don’t want to see the bad in them. We want to remember them in the best possible light, especially if they died tragically and young, as Lily and James did.
The scar on Harry’s forehead is explained by Hagrid as the mark of an evil curse hitting you. Hagrid says:
“No one ever lived after he decided ter kill ’em, no one except you, an’ he killed some o’ the best witches an’ wizards of the age–the McKinnons, the Bones, the Prewetts–an’ you was only a baby, an’ you lived.”
It’s a lovely sentiment but it puts an ungodly amour of pressure on Harry. So far as Harry is concerned, he is nothing special. He’s just Harry, the lanky boy with the too big clothes, the rough home life and no family. He isn’t some magical savior or great warrior. He can’t even properly defend himself against the abuse at home.
There is a stage in the heroes journey known as the refusal of the call in which the hero doesn’t want to burdened with whatever quest has been laid before him, normally because it’s dangerous. Harry’s refusal is brief but everything Hagrid has said to him does give him pause.
Hagrid looked at Harry with warmth and respect blazing in his eyes, but Harry, instead of feeling pleased and proud, felt quite sure there had been a horrible mistake. A wizard? Him? How could he possibly be? He’d spent his life being clotted by Dudley, and bullied by Aunt Petunia and Uncle Vernon; if he was really a wizard, why hadn’t they been turned into warty toads every time they’d tried to lock him in his cupboard? If he’d once defeated the greatest sorcerer in the world, how come Dudley had always been able to kick him around like a football?
Harry’s refusal is more of an internal one and has nothing to do with the dangers of the quest or the weirdness of the now revealed magical world. It has to do with Harry’s own extremely poor self confidence and the fact that no one has ever treated him kindly or with any measure of love and respect. His refusal to answer the call is short-lived. Harry is ready for adventure, but more than that–Harry is ready to escape.
Possible Foreshadowing
1. Hagrid’s umbrella and his expulsion from Hogwarts
2. “Not enough human in him [Voldemort] to die…”
Conversation Questions
1. Petunia has quite the outburst in this chapter. Normally her resentment and anger at Harry are cold and kept bottled up, but this is probably the loudest we’ve ever heard her. What do you think of her tirade?
2. Harry accepted that he was a wizard rather quickly. Is it because he’s known all along that there was something different about him or is it because, at this point in his life, he’ll accept anything that gets him away from the Dursley’s? Comparing him to other mythical heroes, does it scan with other archetypes?
3. Why did Dumbledore send Hagrid and not go himself? It likely would have been a less thunderous meeting had it been Dumbledore.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"Announcement (from Jo, Macy, and RG)
Because time and space are being taken up debating how to run this re-read the three runners of the re-read–Jo, Macy, and myself–have had a long discussion about the questions concerning the above and have made a decision.
First, we want everyone to participate. That’s never been up for debate. We want as many people as we can to talk about and analyze the chapters as we present them. We are fine with the occasional spoiler but we, as a collective whole, feel that that the answers to the larger questions are still best left unanswered so that the readers can come to them organically, slowly, and focusing on their development along the way. We feel as though by having in depth discussions on what is to come, very far down the road, this early in the game is not the point of the re-read and it takes away from re-reading the series with fresh eyes and focusing on how JKR got from point A to point Z. Thematic trends are important to us all, and we’ve been discussing them from the start (along with moral, ethical, religious, and archetypical ones) but jumping the gun and explaining everything isn’t allowing us read the characters as they develop–even with spoiler tags .
Jo, Macy and myself understand that everyone reads differently and understands literature circles/re-read projects differently but in order to get the most out of this that we can, we’d like to stick to the rules we established or else it’s going to get tedious quite fast since, as already stated, every single one of us knows the answers to the questions posed and we understand the characters (quite well), including their ticks, their motivations, and their own psychology. We want to track the development of those characters and their themes as they are presented, line by line, chapter by chapter, book by book.
We also feel that as the three people who are (so far–and again, if you want to do one, then feel free to drop me a line) writing these analyses, it is a disservice to us since we’re taking large portions of our time to read and re-read and take notes and work up analysis for them to be to be somewhat brushed aside and discuss the larger story as a whole when that wasn’t what the three of us intended when we set out to do this.
Again, we want everyone to participate but the rules we designed from the get go need to stay in place in order for this re-read to operate.
Chapter 4 will be posted shortly.
"He was a lot of things to me" "The only conclusion was love"
