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I think everyone already pretty much summed up how I felt about this episode however I will say that, despite it’s many “meh” qualities, it sure gave us a LOT of things to discuss in terms of Zelena’s father, her ultimate goal and what she’s stealing from everyone. WOW, now we can *really* get down to theorizing!
I think one of the most annoying things to me about this episode was A&E’s/Robert Hull’s apparent *COMPLETE* lack of knowledge about women’s anatomy and human gestation periods. Snow wakes up one day, and tells Charming they’re pregnant, and she is SO CLEARLY PREGNANT. Then the next scene has a “9 months later” cue?! In a normal world, it takes at least a month to even maybe think that you might be pregnant (and last I checked Sneezy didn’t bring the Storybrooke pharmacy over with him for Snow to get a pregnancy test) and at least 3 months before you even start showing. As Emma would say, Seriously? Did they make tacos the night before and she just magically knew they had conceived another child and looked 3 months pregnant? Maybe time works differently in FTL, basic math doesn’t work? C’mon.
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I’m with RG, I’m totally excited for next week’s episode! There is no way, NO WAY that they are going to kill Neal in one episode. That would be completely unfulfilling from a character perspective, but also from a writing perspective. If they were going to do it, they would do it right, I firmly believe it. Also, wasn’t there a spoiler months ago about a death that would be reversed? Could it be possible that we may think Neal is dead, only to be mistaken? I would think they weren’t talking about Rumple because that would be so obvious. I fear we may have some rough episodes ahead of us, but stay strong!
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
Heck it even worse than Snow pulling out “Fake” Excalibur, because the point of the story of oz that you don’t need any kind of symbol to brain, courage or heart that the individual always had it within them the entire time.
Honestly, I think that’s the whole point! She’s going to take these symbols from our characters that we will see through flashbacks, as we have with Charming, and most of our heroes will have self-doubt and go on personal journeys. We already see Charming struggling with his fear of being a father, so perhaps Belle will think she’s not smart enough to figure out how to save Rumple, and Neal will doubt that he was ever meant to be with his family. Then at the end of the season they will all realize what they needed (brains, courage, and heart), they already had in the first place.
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
I had been thinking for a while that they were going to use characters we know as fill ins for the characters of OZ. I knew Belle would be the Scarecrow (brain) but couldn’t figure out who would fill in the other two spots of heart and courage. As SOON as I saw Neal clutch his chest in the promo, I knew he’d be the Tinman! And I know a lot of you are losing hope BUT just remember: At the end of the Wizard of Oz, they all get their courage/brains/heart back. In fact, they realize they never lost them in the first place, they had them the whole time. It just took the journey for them to figure it out. BOOM!
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
There was an episode in S1, (I can’t remember which one someone help me out on that, I think the finale?) in which Snow attempts to rescue Charming when Regina has captured him and has him in a dungeon. When she reaches the dungeon and opens his cell, she realizes that he is trapped in a mirror.
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
I posted my mirror theory in another thread, but I tried to keep it as non-shippy and fact related as possible. However, in the safety of our Swanfire haven, I’ll expound a bit on my theory/wish. Short story, there are mirrors everywhere in this season so far, and some notable ones are when they are there in the background (in Regina’s office and in Granny’s). My own headcanon right now (most likely debunked tonight but just in case it’s not) is that Zelena imprisoned Neal in a mirror just before he was able to save Rumple and the next curse was cast. He is able to travel between them, and watch over Emma and the rest of her family, but unable to comunicate. He can occasionally escape, just as Ozma could in return to Oz, but not for long and he can’t reveal his true identity. How heartbreaking would it be to see him watching Emma ask for him, but not able to tell her he’s ok? It also would be a parallel to Charming being trapped in the mirror in Season 1. I know I’ll most likely be very wrong indeed, because I almost always am, but right now, I’m going to enjoy my little theory.
Edit: And I just thought to myself, what if this is the price of some sort of magic he tried to use to get to them?
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
Runaroundmacy, you are a wonderful example of why I love these forums so much. I never noticed how often mirrors were used. I really need to rewatch. I’ve seen others mention mirrors being used, but not to the extent that you have. And the water..I never noticed that either. Maybe it’s another way to reflections. This seasons camera angles have been so interesting. Reflections, mirror images, one persons actions mirroring someone else’s actions, reversal of roles. It’s all so very interesting to watch it evolve. It would be wonderful to learn in one of the final episodes that there really is someone else watching through reflected images. A new big bad for season 4.
Well, aren’t you sweet! But I will give credit where it’s due: Kranen noticed the first mirror shot, and you noticed the mirroring of the characters. I just took the time to watch the episodes and look specifically for mirrors. Keb mentioned Ozma, and I *know* someone else mentioned the water thing in passing in some other thread, I just noticed more instances of it. I kind of feel like this is a culmination of a lot of people’s thoughts and theories. I do feel like there is more to it than just symbolism, which could be a new big bad, the wizard watching, someone trapped in a mirror, or just Zelena watching. I will say I would rather that someone has been watching over all these events, and even Zelena won’t know about it. I also don’t think water is going to do *anything* to Zelena except make her annoyed that someone messed up her hair and makeup.
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
I’ve been mulling over this observation for a week or so and just did a rewatch of the first two episodes and I had some interesting discoveries. Mirrors have been in prominent shots for both episodes, either obviously used or in the background:
– Obviously, the shot of Emma in the rearview mirror.
– The shot of Emma entering her apartment, showing a mirror image.
– Zelena has been shot multiple times from behind with her reflection being the main focus of the shot
– Regina in “Witch Hunt” was shot the same way during her conversation with Robin about the sleeping curse
– There is a large mirror hanging over the fireplace in Granny’s during “Witch Hunt”, when the Charmings, Hook and Emma are discussing what is happening in the town
– There is a large mirror in the background in Regina’s office when she is trying to replicate the potion. When she throws the potion it is directly at the mirror. Also, this is in the background as Regina and Emma are discussing their plan to “smoke out the perp”.
– There are mirrors in the background of Mary Margaret’s apartment when Emma brings Regina to introduce her to Henry
– Not shot with reflections, but there of course is the rearview mirror in the shot of Emma and Regina on the stakeout. (this one may be a stretch, but I’ll include it anyway)
– In the promo for “The Tower”, we see another shot of the hooded figure in a rearview mirror.
– Thus far, the writers are clearly showing us parallels from Season 1, in some cases characters and storyline are mirror images of eachother! Emma and Regina, and Rumple and Neal are the most obvious. (this was noticed by Cinders in many posts)
Now, this could easily be Zelena using mirrors as Regina did, to spy on people. But, Keb commented recently in another thread, that in the OZ books, Princess Ozma was trapped in mirrors, and in “Return to Oz” she could leave the mirror for short periods of time. If I remember correctly, in the beginning of the movie, she escaped briefly to save Dorothy from electro-shock therapy and send her back on her way to Oz (you don’t realize it’s Ozma until the end of the movie). Could this be Neal’s fate? Or could someone else be watching that we don’t know yet? I do think it’s most likely Zelena, but it would be an interesting storyline, and parallel Charming trapped in the mirror from Season 1.
I also noticed that in shots in Storybrook where Zelena is shown all sneaky there is water involved:
– In the town hall scene before we see Zelena, there are many pitchers and glasses of water. This was deliberately in focus throughout the scene.
– In Granny’s, Mary Margaret has a glass of water on the table before Zelena comes to talk to her.
– She brings Rumple water and food.
– She makes David and Mary Margaret tea in their apartment in the promo for “Witch Hunt” and there is a shot of her reflection in it.
Don’t know if any of these will actually mean anything in the long run, but I did think they were worth noting, considering the more I looked the more I saw them everywhere. I won’t be surprised to find out that there are more instances of mirrors popping up and being relevant to the rest of the season, literally and symbolically.
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@Runaroundmacy Interesting idea! Have we seen Zelena do anything spectacular? Besides cast maybe a super wonky curse? She can fly, but that’s probably the broom, not her. She POOFs a lot, but so does everyone else. Changed her outfit but…eh Hm. Yeah, it’s possible she just isn’t as powerful.
That’s what made me start to wonder… We haven’t seen her do really much of anything, yet. Sorry in advance RG, but maybe that’s why she needs Rumple, because she knows that he’s more powerful than Regina, and if she controls him, she won’t actually have to do anything. She can just make *him*. And make him pay for choosing Regina over her. Double revenge whammy.
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
I’m gonna throw in a theory I’ve been mulling about in my head for a bit. What if the WW just isn’t as powerful as Regina? What if she tried to recreate the original curse but couldn’t, so that’s why some things just aren’t quite right?
From what Zelena has said (and she could be lying), Cora gave her up, and we don’t know who raised her so maybe she lived alone and I’m assuming in poverty for most of her life. And finally Rumple comes along and thinks she’s special, something more than just a penniless girl from some other land. But when he tries to teach her magic he just realizes she’s just not that good? That even though she’s Cora’s firstborn, there is NO WAY this girl can cast the curse he needs to find Bae. So he ditches her for Regina. So now the WW has a little knowledge of magic, but most of her power lies in fear and manipulation and she is able to essentially *trick* everyone into thinking that she’s a really powerful witch. And now that I think about it, it sounds like a pretty Wizard of Oz thing to do, make everyone think you have magic when you really don’t. How about that for a mash-up, right?
Keeper of the Cheshire Cat’s smile, Baelfire’s sword, Snow’s backpack, Robin Hood’s bow, Ariel’s purse, Ariel’s smile, Henry’s heart, Belle’s shoe collection
