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Questions from S3B premiere: –What was Zelena’s initial plan? She didn’t know that A.) Cora was dead and that B.) Rumpel was dead. Sooo, did Zelena think she could defeat Cora or hold her off if she tried to stop her time travel plan? Is Zelena more powerful than Cora since she was born with magic? Also, since Z didn’t know Rump was dead, how was she planning on getting his dagger and brain? O.o It seems Zelena was overestimating her circumstances. If either Cora or Rump had returned to the EF alive, she would have been defeated in a matter of seconds…
Well, Zelena was likely taught just as much by Rumple as Cora (“You shouldn’t have taught me all your tricks” in 3×16), and his letter to Cora called her the most powerful sorceress he’d ever encountered, which would obviously include mother dear herself. And this is all pre-pendant, which I’m pretty sure Glinda said would amplify her powers. So to begin with she has this natural knack for magic and has learned most (if not all) of Rumple’s tricks, and then upon returning to Oz her power only grew. I think Zelena would have been able to wipe the floor with Cora, and as she had gotten away unscathed the last time they met and she had only gotten stronger since, she probably assumed she could handle Rumple. Wicked always wins, after all.
[adrotate group="5"]Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
The Fisher King???
The Grail’s origins in literature stem from Chretien de Troyes’ Perceval, where it is in the possession of the Fisher King (also called the Maimed or Wounded King), the last in a long line charged with the holding of the Grail. Named by various sources Pelles/Pellam/Pellehan/Pescheour/seriously there’s a lot of different names, the Fisher King was wounded in the thigh after falling into sin and rendered immobile. His land suffered as he did, becoming barren until the achieving of the Grail. In later legend, Galahad is destined to heal him and the land upon achieving the Grail, but in de Troyes Percival fails to ask the questions which would have healed the Fisher King. Thomas Malory, the go-to Arthurian source, is a total mess where it concerns him – there are no less than four characters who occupy different parts of his story, though a lot of that is likely due to error on Malory’s part (some, if not all, of Le Morte d’Arthur WAS compiled in prison, after all, I’m pretty sure, and based on French sources which I’m sure probably wasn’t his first language).
In Malory, Pellam is the one who receives the Dolorous Stroke, but Pelles (at one point equated with Pellam and then later given a different story for his wound and identified as separate. Really. Malory’s a mess) is ALSO called the Maimed King, and is the father of Elaine (Galahad’s mother via Lancelot), as well as the King of Corbenic (the Grail Castle)…but Pellam is the one healed by Galahad & Co. upon grail-achievement. But I’ve gone off on a tangent, sorry. I suppose it could also be Percival – I find Bors a rather unlikely choice, and while I think Galahad’s really *the* famous Grail Achiever, the show’s so fond of family ties I’d be surprised if they cut his and make someone who’s traditionally the son of a character we’ve already met this “elderly” knight.
Or maybe even Sir Percival, the Fisher King, which would be a name more people would recognize than, say, Pellam.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
Being born with an affliction like that can be seen as a type of “curse”, but, really, if they were to have Elizabeth Mitchell’s character curse Elsa, it wouldn’t really be retconning anything. It would be a retcon if they made a Frozen 2 and did something like that there, but the Disney movie and OUAT exist in different continuities, so it doesn’t really count as a retcon any more than any other liberties they’ve taken.
That said, my vote is definitely for Mitchell to be a pre-Elsa Snow Queen (there’s your way to avoid having the confusion of two “Ice Queens” – you simply don’t. Yeah, they’re not exactly loads different, but I’d think that Elsa would probably be called Elsa more than the Ice Queen, and Mitchell’s character could be referred to almost exclusively as the Snow Queen). That way they acknowledge both the Hans Christian Andersen tale and the film – Elsa’s backstory in which she gets cursed could even parallel the original tale where whatever the Snow Queen does to her can mirror (hah) the mirror-shard that gets in Kai’s eye in the story.
Unless she’s a recast Maleficent. That’s the only Black Fairy option I’ll take Mitchell for as I can’t see her as Morgana and I personally don’t believe (does anybody?) that the Black Fairy is just going to be an original evil fairy with no traditional basis.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
Phee, that was one of the biggest questions my friend and I had, as to how Blue would have gotten it back from Rumple. Our best guess right now is that she reacquired the wand shortly before the curse (as part of those still unexplained final preparations of hers from S1), seeing as how Rumple’s castle would be empty what with her having helped imprison him. No idea when/how Rumple got it in the first place, though.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
I wonder when the King’s Landing material gets filmed. I know production for GoT runs something like July-November but it’s such a huge project it’s not as if they need all the actors for that whole span of time. It’d be really hard to schedule, but a guy can dream, yeah?
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
Natalie Dormer for Elsa. There is no one else.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
I don’t think so, because she was shown to have power without needing the wand, but fairies in the past have always needed a wand for magic I think, right? Otherwise there would be little reason for Blue to have taken Black’s wand from her before banishing her. I admit, because we got the reappearance of the wand (though I’m admittedly bamboozled as to why Rumple would have it when they have to get it from Blue in 3×11) and once again mentions of the dark fairy that gave Snow the fairy dust had me expecting the cliffhanger to involve the Black Fairy, but I’m reluctant to think it’s the Snow Queen. I don’t know how Blue goes about naming her buddies, but I can’t imagine anyone naming Elsa Black, with her decidedly glacial palette. I suppose we’ll see in the Fall.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
Narnia really can’t happen, guys, or at least I’d be damn surprised if they did. I’m a huge fan of the novels and the films, so I’ve been following the rights pretty closely since Dawn Treader came out. Disney doesn’t have the rights (which they gave up after Prince Caspian, hence why Fox made Voyage of the Dawn Treader), and they’re not for sale these days – there was a couple-year period after Fox gave them up that no one could touch them, but it’s over and Douglas Gresham’s working on getting The Silver Chair going somewhere. There’s no studio yet, just a production company (the Mark Gordon Company, or something like that), but given PC’s disappointing box office, I wouldn’t expect Silver Chair and, thus, the Narnia rights, to go back to Disney.
Personally, I didn’t really like Frozen all that much, so I hope there’s more of the Andersen story in the show than there was in the film. I know there’s virtually no chance of it being MOSTLY Andersen over Frozen (though in my honest opinion, popularity or not, it should be because this is a show about fairytales and storybook characters not Disney movies but I seem to be in the minority in believing that since so many people seem to want every Disney character ever just because. I’d be pretty annoyed, at least briefly, if Merida showed up (as an example), to be honest), but I hope they at least go into the fairytale a bit.
As such, I’d like to see her as a villain, yes, and played by Natalie Dormer, but I wouldn’t be opposed to a Frozen-esque redemptive arc for her as it’s probably a given. The Wicked Witch can get stabbed to death and die unredeemed, but not the darling of little girls everywhere.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
Good catch! I think you’re on to something. He’s a commoner in the earliest ballads and the like, but over time it became pretty common for Robin to be the Lord of Loxley or the Earl of Huntington who had his lands wrongfully taken from him (sometimes while he’s off fighting in the crusades with Richard the Lionheart, though he could have easily been fighting in the ogre wars or some such) by some combination of the Sheriff of Nottingham/Guy of Gisborne/Prince John. Here’s hoping for season 4 backstory!
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
My faith that Rumple is the most powerful wizard in all the realms is slowly fading. First Peter, and now Zelena.
If Rumple was able to summon his dagger from the shadow, he should be able to summon it the moment Zelena puts it down. She certainly can’t hold that thing 24-7.
Clearly, at this dinner, Zelena is telling Rumple her plan to change the past and claim what she thinks is rightfully hers. He knows what’s at stake here.
If Rumple doesn’t gain the upper hand by the end of this “intimate” dinner date, then my faith in his powers of manipulation, and in the Dark One’s powers is fading fast.
I know she’s controlling him, but come on. Everything we know about him tells us he should be stronger and more cunning than she is.
That’s the thing though – if one of your main characters is supposed to be the most powerful/cunning wizard in all the lands, how can anyone they go against ever be a threat? The villains need to be able to outsmart, outwit, outmatch them (atleast initially) or else the tension evaporates. If Rumple could just handwave and scheme all our antagonists away, what would we even need the Charmings for? That’s the biggest issue I had with Regina telling Rumple in Neverland that they were the two most powerful magic users in history or something to that extent – it’s clearly her inflated sense of ego and self-worth, but it just doesn’t seem like a thing that ever needed to be said. Leave it ambiguous IMO. His power as the Dark One is great, but it’s got to come with some restrictions – like someone said, Zoso needed to enlist Rumple in stealing the dagger in the first place. Maybe the dagger itself isn’t summonable? It’s possibly worth noting that when he hid it with his shadow, he didn’t summon it. He called back his shadow, which brought the dagger with it. I know Cora kind of Force Pulls it in 2×15 when Snow gives it up, but that was a deliberate exchange – maybe ownership of the dagger extends past holding it and is more about possessing it? Sure, maybe she can only give him direct commands when she’s holding it, but if holding it was the only way to possess it, then anyone with enough magic could just steal it from whoever, whenever. Rumple certainly didn’t hold it for 300 years.
Keeper of Zelena's witch hat and the Black Fairy's wand.
