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Yes, this. If they actually wanted to retcon the dagger into the One Ring, then fine — but they’d need to do a lot more work to make it plausible. Along the same lines, if the dagger is such a corrupting influence (presumably once’s you’ve held it and ordered a Dark One around with it), then how come Gideon just hands it back, no questions asked? Wouldn’t the logical reaction be “ooh, I got me a Dark One, lets go take out the Black Fairy now”? And why would Rumple give it out to Bae in the first place if it has such a horrible effect (unless, of course, he doesn’t know)? They do have material to work with, both in-universe and in terms of folkloric tropes if they wanted to suggest that this sort of power is both literally and figuratively corrupting. It certainly would explain why no one tried to order the Dark One out of commission, and locked the dagger away — which, of course, has a lot of precedents in all sorts of fairy tales. They could have done such an interesting speculation on why the proverbial genie always ends up imprisoned in some lamp somewhere: that eventually someone somewhere grows a brain and realizes that this kind of power is bad news for everyone. But my point is that if we all have to collectively do this much work to make this whole thing make any sense at all, they’re doing it wrong.
It is odd that Gideon was not seemingly affected by holding the dagger. But perhaps holding the dagger doesn’t mean you want to be the DO or control the DO. Maybe it just means you want to continue lusting for dark magic. So for him, it’s killing the Savior. Once he took it from Rumple, his willingness to still do that and go to the blue fairy to get her blood increased. And there have been others who controlled the dagger or became the DO who all of a sudden, turned into a crazy person. Hook, Cora (although she was a psycho and sort of always wanted more power), Emma a little, Rumple obviously, Arthur, and now Baelfire. And as you say, they have material to work with here. But they probably need to flesh out the control the dagger and the darkness can have on someone more consistently, if that is the way they are going with this.
But then again Gideon seems to be the exception to the rule in some situations. Given that he was raised by the black fairy and memory potions apparently don’t work on him, that the black fairy tried to make him go dark for 28 years and failed, being the product of true love and the son of the dark one (Bae was conceived when Rumple was human and he hasn’t magical so it wouldn’t apply to him the same way). Maybe he’s just somehow inmune to being seduced by the darkness?…. just a few thoughts….
[adrotate group="5"]Like I responded to someone else…you think he’d still wonder why he didn’t need to sleep. A memory potion might erase the memory of being the Dark One but it doesn’t erase you actually being the Dark One and all the traits that come with that.
Yes sorry I saw it too late, I edited my previous post to reply back to that comment 🙂
I am glad they had him drink the memory potion and that Rumple then took all the blame on himself to save his son from the darkness,
I don’t understand how a memory potion affects darkness in one’s soul. Like not remembering you’ve done something bad completely takes away the impulse to do bad things? It means your soul is turned bright white again? This seems pretty nonsensical to me. Why not just give all the villains memory potions then!
Well this kind of explains that “Hook being a dark one but not knowing he was” thing in season 5. Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t think he did anything “bad” during that period so this could explain why.
EDIT : Just saw someone else replied to this and your reply.
While I completely agree with your reply for this (lack of sleep, memories). It could be argued that he didn’t see anything wrong with the lack of sleep because the loss of memories could have caused a bit of a reality distortion/confusion. Out of topic, but I wonder how patients that return from coma deal with getting used to following a sleeping cycle again.
Something Blue Fairy said makes me think there is more to that sword than meets the eye. It was the way she said: “Using that sword wont make you a savior in the way you think” or something like that. That sword probably has some plot twisty magic attached to it. If anyone has the real quote feel free to post it.
One thing that bothered me about that was, who told the Blue Fairy about this? Correct me if I am wrong, but I don’t recall Gideon telling this to anyone but Rumple. Unless, Rumple texted Belle right away after Gideon told him and Belle told Blue…. or if Black is Blue and somehow she orchestrated all of this to happen for some [insert evil Black Fairy purpose here]?
Overall 9/10.
Really enjoyed the episode as I found it had a very nice mix of characters and dynamics. Would have given it a 10/10 if it had not been for the Hook+Emma scenes (no offence to anyone ) but I just felt they were out of place in this episode context and storylines.
Liked :
– The Blue Fairy. I just think she makes the show better. Can she be evil already? lol. Really enjoyed her bickering with Rumple.
– The EQ is back, yay!!
– Rumple and Gideon/Rumple Baelfire. Good chemistry and loved the parallel stories. Also props for the re-cast of Baelfire.
– Dark one’s dagger usage (see extra notes below).
– Zelena and Robin. Really enjoyed the dynamic between those two.
– Regina’s realizations about her other half and her scenes with Robin and Zelena.
– Rumple and Belle’s scene. Sad, sweet, but somehow gave me a vibe of bad things to come.Disliked:
– Regina’s fedora. Why? Why? Why?
– Hook and Emma scenes. Felt a bit out of place for this episode and seemed like could have been saved for next episode instead.Extra notes:
About Baelfire commanding Rumple to kill Beowulf, I honestly didn’t see it as bad as many of you did. I always thought that using the dagger somehow affected the decision making of the person unconsciously and began corrupting the person (darkened their heart) the more they used it, just like the ring did to Gollum and Frodo in LTR. Cause otherwise who pays the price for the dark magic when the dagger is used? Clearly not the dark one. In season 4 we learned that the darkness slowly consumes the host to attempt to free itself, so the more dark magic you use, the closer the darkness is from being free.
With that being said, there was never any reference of Zoso ever being consumed by the darkness during his time as the dark one, he did try to free himself from it by using the hat though, until he got enslaved by the duke/Hordor. It’s clear that a lot of dark magic was wilded using the dagger after Hordor took control over Zoso, so if the use of dark one’s dark magic accelerates the rate at which the darkness takes over the host to free itself, shouldn’t the darkness had been free by then? My theory is that the host pays the price (heart darkens) to use dark one’s magic the same way the dark one does, except that the darkness doesn’t take over them like it does with the dark one, cause the darkness is an independent entity residing in someone else’s body after all.
When someone controls the dark one through the dagger, the darkness (as an entity) is also controlled by association. I highly doubt that while Hordor was running around the fields of battle, Zoso was playing charades with the darkness, Gorgon and Nimue in his head. Maybe he was with Gorgon and Nimue, but my bet is that the darkness was working on it’s own in the background, perhaps influencing somehow Hordor into doing dark deeds using the dagger. After all, the darker Horder became, the more tempted and curious of dark power he would become no?. Plus at that point, the only way the darkness could have achieved it’s goal of being free would have been if Zoso regained control of the dagger and continued doing dark deeds or if someone stabbed Zoso and became the dark one himself/herself and the cycle re-started again.
I saw somewhere a discussion on why Hordor never commanded the dark one to stop the war (like Rumple did) and part of me thinks that it was due to the darkness slowly corrupting him inside the more he used it to command Zoso to do his bidding. I think the same thing would have happened to Baelfire and Rumple realized this, hence why he decided to dope Baelfire into forgetting the kill.
Plus everyone who has used the dagger does seem to turn a bit darker/possessed somehow.
Belle acted a bit off/out of character (could have been bad writing though) when she commanded Rumple to take her to the ice queen. Plus the command to send him over the town line was a bit too much for Belle to have come up by her own.
Cora, she seemed a bit too eager to kill Rumple and posses the power while she had control of the dagger….
Rating 9.5/10
Loved it! Hard to point out negatives (aside from magic inconsistencies).Review coming up after my hype comes down lol.
I don’t think we can simply assume that it is the AU Regina showing up.
Except we still have to rationalize why the EQ is there at all then. We know she is; she’s in the scene–dressed in almost the same, if not the same, outfit she wears in the pilot. The EQ shouldn’t exist at all if there are no villains–as stated in the article–unless they just mean that after the protection spell was placed on Snowing, the EQ was powerless without Rumple prodding her into the Curse. Except THAT makes no sense either. Rumple was the one who put the protection curse on Snowing because of his long con to find Bae. So we have a few options: No Rumple (he never became the Dark One OR never lost Bae and set out on his long path) OR we have a Rumple but he never managed to convince the EQ to try the Dark Curse and she is simply an evil queen–but not one that has aged given that Snow and Charming are now about 60 and they didn’t age Lana up at all. The AU doesn’t make sense (what we can piece together at least) unless they rewrite large portions of the universe and character interaction. Even if it’s undone by the end of the episode, this whole “no dark curse” thing requires certain facts of the Onciverse to be undone.
Maybe is not the EQ but just Regina dressed as the EQ instead? We know Regina manages to get to the AU land because of the “Emma? What the hell happened to you?” scene in the promo.
I am thinking that maybeee Regina is looking for Rumple in the AU but since he’s still locked up …. threatening the Charmings (dressed as the EQ) is part of her strategy to get them to get her to him.
I am guessing its the sword. Given the title of one of the future episodes is ill boding patterns, which seems to a reference to a sword called Hrunting in Beowulf. And I quote: “rare and ancient sword named Hrunting. The iron blade with its ill-boding patterns had been tempered in blood. It had never failed the hand of anyone who hefted it in battle.” So I am guessing that sword probably has the power to kill EQ without killing Regina. They wouldn’t be putting focus on it if it weren’t special.
If that’s the case though and Rumple had it all along … why didn’t he use it to kill Zelena :s
“Hey look! That guy who mentally and emotionally assaulted his wife got forgiven and a happy ending! Women in these kinds of relationships…just keep on trucking. And taking him back. He’ll change for you eventually.”
Why do we always leave off the abuse that Belle is inflicting on Rumple. Rumple is not the only one being abusive is this relationship. I am not excusing his behavior although I will say that I agree with Keb that it was done in the thought of protecting Belle and his son. Pirate ship was done becasue he thought she was in danger from EQ and Hyde, cuff link was done in response to Belle stating that she was taking their kid and leaving so he could never find her or his son again. Rumple is almost always defensive and not offensive. Most of this abuse comes form the verbal and emotional abuse that Belle has been throwing at him. I know this is not the popular opinion but I am calling it like I am seeing it, Belle is being just as abusive to Rumple as he is to her, does that make all this okay, NO but we need to stop thinking of Rumple as the evil guy and Belle the innocent victim. They are both to blame in this horrible situation and they both need to work on their behaviors.
Totally agree with you. Belle has displayed some abusive behaviour too and I am not excusing Rumple’s behaviour either. Belle has called Rumple a coward/weak/beast/monster in front of others quite a lot this season and as far as I am concerned, demeaning your partner in front of others is a sign of emotional abuse. Same could be said about making subtle threats, how many times has Belle told Rumple that she’s going to go far away and that he is never going to see his child again? Quite a few times.
I do find that Belle has sort of been playing the role of the victim, I know she’s been through a lot but still, she’s been deflecting the blame to Rumple more than taking responsibility. Unfortunately, her “friends” never really question her decisions, so I guess it’s hard for her to realize that she is not being as self-righteous as she thinks she’s being.
Would have been nice if the convos she had with Snow and Charming had been longer and more meaningful.
Honestly, i am still on the edge about whether or not i believe that Gideon and Morpheus are the same person. If the writers hadn’t said it explicitly, there is no way i would think it was true. Even if it is true, then Morpheus is being manipulated by someone, somehow.
Yeah like how on Earth is Gideon going to be older by the next episode? I get they are doing the AU thing, but huh? I’m not sure I understand how that happens unless someone magically makes it happen. But Blue wouldn’t do that. Belle wouldn’t do that. Rumple certainly doesn’t want that. Neverland makes people not age……is there a place that makes people age that Blue could have taken Gideon? Is there a magical macguffin that happens to DO babies? Perhaps the child is already magically gifted (we saw Zelena move a tree) that he is able to age himself?
Well there’s always the magic aging dust thing….if it were used on a baby….
