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"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
You always lose the ones you lose most…
Excuse me, I’ll be in the corner holding Rumple.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Happy Back-to-the-Future Day!
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Right, that’s exactly the problem. I agree with @RG — the kicker isn’t necessarily that OUAT has a class issue. It’s that it’s not aware that it has a class issue (or a gender issue, or a race issue and on we go), and THAT is the thing that unites all the different critiques I’ve seen articulated in the fandom, and notably on these forums. Portrayal of class stratification isn’t the same as the naturalization of class stratification. For example, if I’m reading A. Dumas, I’m not going to expect a commentary on class consciousness. But if I’m reading contemporary fantasy, I’m likely to look for that in-between the lines metacommentary on the type of society it describes.
You’re right. There could stand to be more meta-analysis. But I think it’s just more the case that A&E love to “twist” stories. This goes back to a point that @Josephine made in another thread. In S1, it was a fun sort of twist to make Rumple into the Beast and Cinderella’s fairy-godmother and Ruby into the Wolf. Yet, in S3, the show became markedly darker. They love to slant stuff so that white looks black and black looks white. They love to make heroes into villains and villains into heroes. That is why Peter Pan became the villain, and Hook appeared to be more sympathetic. Now the writers are doing the same thing to King Arthur. Traditionally, he’s supposed to be the good guy we all root for, but he’s now been bent into some sort of deviant and corrupt king. In S3, Snow and Charming were made to look like the villains for casting the second dark curse and Regina into the savior who broke it. It’s how A&E roll. My critique has less to do with just class portrayal but more with them totally defacing my beloved childhood characters. They want to tarnish the white night, but if they keep knocking everyone off of their pedestals, who are we meant to root for? The mass murderer?
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Yes and that was my point. OUAT doesn’t show any one being able to rise above of their own accord and not become a villain You either know people or you go dark.
Actually, I just thought of several good exceptions.
Mulan is the first exception; she earned her heroine status though being an awesome warrior. We know she values honor, sacrifice and ethics. She’s a protector of her people.
Also, if we’re allowed to expand beyond just OUAT, the Wonderland daughter show had plenty of great examples. Will Scarlett, despite being a thief, was actually a good man. Anastasia, despite being poor and turning into the Red Queen for a time, actually found redemption and became a good ruler in her own right. Together, she and Will ruled Wonderland as the benevolent White King and Queen (you know, until A&E decided to muck about add Will to S4, thus leaving that happy ending in doubt). Also, Cyrus and Alice. Niether were royalty but were the main heroes of the tale.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
They are depicting lower class people trying to rise above and, in a majority of cases, becoming villains. Is there a character who managed to enter the upper echelon of their own accord and not become a villain in the process?
Emma Swan (before she became the dark one). She was voted in as town sheriff. But, that actually supports the point I was trying to make. Modern, industrialized and democratic countries like the USA allow people to be voted into office based on their own merit. But, generally speaking, in feudal society, you were pretty much screwed unless you were born to privilege or married up. It’s just the way it was. It may not have been fair, but that was the system. Sucked to be a peasant.
That’s the litmus test. Charming married in/was forced in because of his brother but it had nothing to do with his own hard work to make a “better” life for himself. Maybe Ruby or the dwarves or Gepetto but that has a lot to do with befriending the right people.
Yep. It was all about who you knew back in medieval times.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
In general, however, I agree with the point that @Aglepta made. These are fairytales set in a feudal society. So there was always bound to be class struggle. It’s only in the modern, industrialized parts of the world today that there even is such a thing as a middle class or a meritocracy. Back then, it was all about nobility and honors bestowed upon one either through conquest or through birth/marriage.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
In order to be a villain you have to met a minimum of two of those. If you don’t then A and E will add some “twist” to ensure that you do.
There are a couple of exceptions. Ursula was depicted as the daughter of the sea king who became a “villain” after she lost her voice, rather than a love interest or family member. She also had her father, who though strict, loved her. Cruella was born to life of privilege and parents two parents who provided for her. Then she killed one of them because she was a psychopath. Also, King George was pretty bad, perhaps even before he lost his adoptive son, Prince James, who didn’t even know about his humble beginnings as David’s twin brother. That lot seemed to be pretty bad.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
But the whole CS “romance” (*tiwtch*) seems to be portrayed from 3rd person omniscient (!?), which I think accounts for the utter ridiculousness of it.
Yep. Emma declared her love for Hook in the S4 finale, but we’ve yet to be shown why. Why exactly did she claim to love him? In S4, she said she lost every man she’s ever been with, to which Hook replied he’s good at surviving. Was Emma clinging to him because he’s literally her only remaining option after Neal died? She has declared Hook changed, but what is she even basing that on? Even Hook doubted her claim in S4. The fact that he gave up his ship (which incidentally, he got back *twitch*) is what Emma S4 seemed to be basing that claim on. Emma, who used to be so closed off, said she’s an open book now that she’s the dark one; yet, so far we’ve yet to see what she’s really thinking or feeling (except for *brief* snippets when Not!Rumple seems to call her own certain realizations like the pony being smarter than the pirate).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
