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This may be the wrong place to post about Hook, but I don’t want to do so outside of the thread. You know I’m no fan of him, but I did want to look closely at how his character is presently being portrayed in the story. He is neither full villain nor redeemed hero: he’s somewhere in the middle. As Colin said of Hook at CC this summer,
“Even in the last season when he was trying to be good he still had that little bit of darkness,” O’Donoghue reasons. “He’s a pirate so he’ll do whatever he has to do to protect the people that he loves.”
Colin O’Donoghue’s of Hook almost mirrors Rumple’s assessment of Hook in S4,
“This hand is nothing but a lump of flesh. The only thing it did was give you permission, permission to be the man you really are… not some puppy dog chasing after the object of his affection, but a ruthless pirate who will stop at nothing to get what he wants” [i.e. Emma Swan].
Hook is firmly in the anti-hero column right now, rather than the hero column as Emma declared he was last season. But, not even Hook totally sees himself as a hero, as he confessed to Emma his fear of losing her because of his villain status. And now he’s lost her to darkness.
I wasn’t surprised that Hook turned her down but I don’t think it has anything to do with him having come a long way. I think it’s more that the writers want to show that Hook is a “hero” and that he thinks her choice matters. He says something like “that’s not who I am.” and all I could do was laugh because that’s all he’s ever been. Both Lily Sparks and Bnaz in her snapchat review called the writers on this, saying something like “yeah, it’s not “hot” when Emma forces the Pirate.
While I totally see the point Lily Sparks made (i.e. Hook: It’s only ‘hot’ when I coerce you.”), Hook has evolved since S2 (though his redemption arc is far from over). Certainly, past Captain Hook came across as a sexual predator (getting girls drunk to sleep with him, making a jape about gang-raping Milha, saying he’d stick Emma with his sword). He used to hit on every woman, including Emma’s mother, and he certainly coerced Emma into kissing him for the first time by using saving her father as leverage. However, to claim that is all Hook has ever been is inaccurate. There was a time when he was a straight-laced sailor named Killian Jones who did have good form. He’s still morally grey, but I think on some level wishes to reclaim his lost honor, although he doesn’t really know how to do so. He’s lost that sense of integrity, and he scoffed a bit at Henry’s expressed desire to be good in 5×1. He sort of chided Regina for having done “too many good deeds” to use the wand. He led Henry to defy his mother in freeing Zelena, so I think Hook is still morally confused.
Despite this scoff and lack of good judgement, I think on some deep level Hook would like to be heroic, but he doesn’t know how (remember that one conversation Hook had with Pan in 3×5 about how Hook thinks Emma sees him as honorable). The problem is, he’s going about this change the wrong way; as Rumple said, Hook is still a ruthless pirate who’ll stop at nothing to get what he wants: Emma. To Hook, dating Savior Swan represents his chance to reclaim his lost sense of nobility. Now that Emma is the dark one, however, Hook seems to be rethinking his desire to be with her physically as well as emotionally; Hook recoils from dark one Emma. He is getting a taste of his own medicine, but he doesn’t like it! He says, “that is not who I am.” Well, we saw Hook whence at his former scalawag self in 3×21-22. Hook did turn down the whore in 3×17 that his crew paid for (though only after he committed highway robbery and put his ship before a man’s life). So I’d say that while Hook has evolved past his former womanizing ways, but he is not above acting selfishly and immorally towards others. He still has a long way to go to reclaim his lost honor. We’ve yet to see him do the right thing when he has nothing to gain from it and he is not a hero yet.
Only the other way ’round” which is what I think the writers were going for. Had it been Hook who grabbed Emma to kiss her, the kiss would have gone on much longer and been considered sexy and steamy instead of the ravings of the new Dark One.
I agree that is a major shortcoming of the writing of Hook. It’s “hot” when Hook, a bad-boy heart throb, uses any means to purse the “virginal” girl (though Emma is a mother). But it’s not okay for the bad-girl to purse the same boy who recoils at her sexual forwardness. That is a major double standard on behalf of the writers.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I still don’t get why Regina had to pay a price of a life for a life. I know “magic always comes with a price” but Rumple used his dark magic to heal Dr. Whale, Baelfire and Belle, but they didn’t have to pay for it. So the idea of the fury coming to collect its payment after Emma healed Robin on behalf of Regina doesn’t really add up. It seems like the writers merely wanted to add a fury and Charon for PLOT-heavy reasons for this particular stand-alone episode rather than for any valid, in-universe reasons. I really doubt we’ll ever see them again.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Not only is Merlin in a tree but so is Dopey. Whoever entrapped Merlin used the same dark magic Emma used to curse the town of SB.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
1) How did Excalibur get back into the stone?
Arthur has his sword in modern-day Camelot, meaning someone other than Merlin put it back in the stone. Perhaps it was Snow and Charming in a bid to protect Emma?
2) Why can’t Emma pull the sword from the stone–Merlin seems to think she will someday
Because of the darkness in her. Only a hero can pull the sword from the stone.
3) Who can pull it from the stone?
Regina will when she fully embraces her role as the new savior.
4) What happens if it is pulled?
Bad things, according to Merlin. He said,
Merlin: When you do something that you’re not supposed to do, even if you do it for the right reasons, bad things will happen, Emma. Bad things…One day, you will have the opportunity to remove Excalibur from its stone, but you must not. Leave the sword alone.”
Does Merlin want the sword put back in the stone for some reason? Does Merlin just not want Emma herself to take the sword? I think Emma removing the sword herself isn’t currently possible given her dark one status, but that makes Merlin’s prophesy seem odd. Why warn baby Emma if dark one Emma is incapable of doing so? Emma getting hold the dark one dagger now that she is the dark one would be dangerous, limitless power. As shoulder-devil Rumple said to Emma,
“You see, no matter how hard we try, we can’t escape the reach of the light. But, Emma Swan, you can change that. That’s why you brought that sword here. You can do what no Dark One before you has ever done. You can make that weapon whole again and use it to snuff out the light… forever.”
Might Merlin intend for someone else to take charge of the sword? I think so. I am suspect Regina, not Emma, needs to remove and reforge the sword with the dagger, because Regina is the new hero. There is a lot of symbolism there (thing Aragorn in Return of the King). For Regina’s redemption arc to be complete, she needs to take up the mantle of savior, pay the price of dark magic and somehow destroy the sword to end the dark one curse that Merlin created once and for all.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I know everyone’s talking about Emma ending up in the Underworld hanging with Hades, but maybe it’ll be Regina instead? I know that Emma dying would be part of her Saviour hero myth arc, but it’s almost getting to the point where you could make a drinking game out of when “Saviour” is used in relation to Regina, and we’re only two eps in, so maybe she’s gonna get her own death and ressurection arc in order to make her fully redeemed?
If we ever see the underworld (which I’m not convinced of yet) I could totally see that. I think Emma is daring Regina to become the new hero to get the sword. Emma is purposefully goading Regina to do what needs to be done. Emma said to Regina,
“You want everyone to believe you’re the Savior? Then step up and do what needs to be done!”
I’m pretty sure Emma needs Regina to become the savior to get the sword. Whether Emma would use that sword to put an end to all darkness is another question. Certainly devil Rumple would have Emma become the unbound dark one with limitless power. Yet, even if Emma were to use the sword with good intent, “bad things” would still happen according to Merlin. I think Regina has to step up as savior. It would complete her redemption arc for Regina to fully embrace her new status as savior. It’s been hinted at repeatedly over the seasons, most recently with her hero’s blood Henry used in 4×22. Once Regina does so, she could be the one to destroy the sword, perhaps by going to Hades or something…
I can see that. Of course, the moral of the story might be that handsome is as handsome does, in that “Savior” is less of a particular person with innate qualities, and more of a job, and whoever steps up to it. I think they’re setting up Regina’s redemption arc to be, indeed, one from Evil Queen to Savior, but if she eclipses Emma in that role, what would be Emma’s outcome? My guess is — from Outcast/Orphan to Savior to Dark One to Normal — isn’t normal/average what Emma always wanted?
What I am sure of is that Regina is the new Emma. This has been heavily foreshadowed since at least S2, when Regina’s journey to redemption began. Regina saved Snow and Emma, her long-term rivals. Regina also said, “Let me die as Regina” in an effort to stop the fail-safe in the S2 finale. She also let Henry go with Emma in S3a, thereby saying goodbye to her son and blessing them with happy memories. Regina also broke Snow’s dark curse in S3b with TLK by kissing Henry and used light “savior” magic to defeat Zelena. Finally, Regina’s hero blood in the AU let Henry set things to rights by rewriting history back to normal.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I think both Arthur and Guinevere are shady. As to the affair — is it possible that Arthur has ‘forgotten’ about it? Seems like you can buy amnesia spells on discount in OUAT.
Maybe the rock trolls took away the entire kingdom’s memories again…oh wait, wrong season. If Arthur and Gwen aren’t victims of a memory wipe, could they have patched up their marriage post-affair? Arthur did seem to forgive Regina of her past sins of being the evil queen pretty quickly. He said,
Camelot is a place of second chances. Who you were doesn’t matter, just who you are.”
Seemed like that could’ve been a double entendre. Perhaps he wasn’t just talking about Regina’s past but about his own with his adulterous wife and former best friend. Perhaps Arthur simply forgave them.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Also, unsolicited advances are only Ok when perpetrated by the wish fulfillment character, but not OK when it’s the now “tainted” heroine. Because, Dark One cooties, and all that.
Yeah…pretty sure Belle never had the reaction towards Rumple. Then again Rumple was shy and dare I say almost modest and “feminine” around Belle in Skin Deep? S1-S3 Emma was traditionally more “masculine” in her persona. It wasn’t until Emma’s first date with Hook that she goes all Sandra Dee. Now she’s embraced the dark leather to get the guy and he doesn’t want her.
On the one hand, Hook actually surprised me in his ability to turn her down. Maybe he has come a long way. However, his total rejection of Emma sorta contrasts with Belle’s acceptance and unconditional love of dark one Rumple S1-S3a. As Belle warned Hook “it’s a lot easier to hate a dark one than it is to love one.” I get why he’s taken aback, why he doesn’t want her that way. But it does make it seem like Emma with sexual appetite = fallen woman.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
There’s something off about Arthur and Guinevere altogether, though. Where’s the “you cheated on me with my best friend and truest knight” angst?
Yeah, that.
From Lady of the Lake (2×3)
Charming: Must be a curious tale.
Lancelot: What?
Charming: Well, how a knight of the round table ended up a sword for hire.
Lancelot: You mean how did I fall from grace? The same way you ended up running from King George…A woman.Are the writers simply going to ignore Lancelot’s fall from grace because of a woman, presumably Guinevere?
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Lily Sparks’ review!
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Henry got his first crush, the young maid Violet. Reactions to this new relationship? Is it too early for Henry or just right? Will they bond over music and being in this world? Could they be true love or is it just a passing phase of puppy love?
I think it’s puppy love. But, I just wish Henry could just get some actual friends his own age before he starts dating. After all, he is only 12 or 13. Whatever happened to his friends from New York City that he supposedly made during the missing year? Whatever happened to Page, Hansel and Gretel?
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
