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"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
And, of course, a certain red-headed witch is on the horizon. What unites these two families is Harry and moreover the affection they have for him.
The Mirror of Erised is so *fascinating* because those people–James, Lily and the whole family–aren’t really there. They aren’t on the other side of the mirror. The family Harry sees is a projection of his desires. And this is what makes Harry and his experiences with the Weasleys even more poignant. Harry doesn’t visualize family as what he knows–the Dursleys. He visualizes family in the way he sees the Weasleys–a large group of people who all support and love one another and are there for each other no matter what. His reference point for what family is supposed to look like is the Weasley clan and he “reflects” that into the mirror.
I’d like to point out one more thing about the defining ginger-haired Weasley trait. As he gazes in the Mirror of Erised, the thing Harry notices about his mother, Lily, is her red hair and his eyes. Red hair is a recessive trait. For Harry, who has black hair, and Ginny Weasley, who is redheaded, to have had a redheaded little girl named Lily Luna Potter, it means that their daughter had to inherit her red hair not only from her mother but also from her paternal grandmother, her namesake, Lily Evans Potter. One of the reasons I think Harry is subliminally drawn to Ginny has to do with her reminding him of his mother. The other thing is that Ginny’s family becomes Harry’s de facto family. They both have the same values and having a family is high on both of their lists of priority.
runaroundmacy wrote:
Do you think that Dumbledore is lying about what he sees in the mirror, or is he able to control his desires so much that he can manipulate what he sees?
I think he absolutely lied. It’s a cute lie, but a lie nonetheless. It doesn’t matter how much time passes, Dumbledore will always see himself as the Master of the Deathly Hallows
Actually, no, what Dumbledore sees in the mirror was exactly what Harry sees in the mirror: his family. According to Rowling, Albus Dumbledore sees “his family alive, whole and happy – Ariana, Percival and Kendra all returned to him, and Aberforth reconciled to him.” Source
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
They, possessing the qualities of Slytherin, would most likely lie about their blood purity to achieve social status. That is a very Slytherin thing to do.
But who wants to hide who she or he really is? That is no way to live. Plus, I don’t know if students even could hide their parentage, even if they wanted to do so. The Sorting Hat knows all and can read minds. In book 2, “Hogwarts Four”: (Chamber of Secrets, 317) – The Sorting Hat sang about the history of the Hogwarts house
Said Slytherin, “We’ll teach just those
Whose ancestry’s purest.”
…
For instance, Slytherin
Took only pure-blood wizards
Of great cunning just like him.”According to the Sorting Hat, originally the founder of Slytherin only accepted “pure-blooded” witches and wizards. Of course, eventually House Slytherin came to admit students who have only one magical parent. But, whether a full muggle-born witch or wizard has ever been sorted into Slytherin by the Hat is a mystery to me.
Supposing that a muggle-born witch or wizard even were to be put in Slytherin, she or he would have to hide her or his true identity, much like the Jews had to in Germany in the 1930s to survive. A lot of them converted to avoid persecution. I’m not sure that muggle-born student would’ve had a good time there prior to the Battle for Hogwarts. Maybe things changed after book 7, but I’m not so sure.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
does the Slytherin reputation stem from *just* the recent past or has it been the house of ill repute (so to speak) since the beginning? I mean, Godric Gryffindor and the other two seem to have no qualm about setting up an entire school with Salazar Slytherin.
I think Slytherin has been that way since the beginning: its founder sought to exclude all muggle-born wizards and witches from Hogwarts. The other founders opposed Salazar’s policy; Godric Gryffindor, Rowena Ravenclaw and Helga Hufflepuff didn’t see eye to eye with Salazar Slytherin, who thought “pure-blooded” wizards and witches were the best. In fact, Godric and Salazar had a big falling out over it, because Godric insisted on admitting muggle-born wizards, resulting in Salazar leaving Hogwarts never to return.
My question is this: has any muggle-born witch or wizard ever been admitted to Slytherin? How would she or he have been treated by the other Slytherins? We know ‘half-blooded’ wizards have come from Slytherin, but even they were full of self-loathing for having a muggle as a parent.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Sure, I agree that he could have met any other wizarding student BUT you change that one factor–Ron–and it’s a whole new ballgame. Are Dean, Seamus, or Neville going to be as loyal, brave, and willing to go on as many adventures and put themselves as much danger as Ron does? Maybe. But to the extent that Ron is? To the extent that Hermione is? I personally don’t know.
What we’re talking about is an AU, and only the author could answer that question completely. What we know from the text is that all of them belong to House Gryffindor, whose members are noted for their daring, bravery and chivalry. For all I know, it could’ve been the case that Dean and Seamus became as willing as Ron and Hermione did to go on adventures with Harry. It’s Harry himself who inspires loyalty in his friends, so I suppose if Dean and Seamus had become Harry’s best friends first, Harry would’ve had a similar influence on them.
You say there is no Hand of Fate in universe but how do we know? Because while lack of evidence is not evidence itself, even characters in universe seem to think that there might something bigger at play pushing those three souls together.
I didn’t say there is no hand of fate at play at all in the story (reread my original post). What I wrote was that not everything is down to fate. Certain big plot points are certainly down to fate, but the everyday things aren’t so much a matter of fate as they are circumstance. Harry meeting Ron first, as opposed to Dean, is a matter of luck, as Ron’s mother said. I take luck to be good fortune, as in chance. Do I think Ron and Harry were destined to meet just when they did? No, not necessarily — except in the mind of J.K. Rowling. I don’t mean to detract from Ron or the Weasleys. Clearly, J.K. Rowling wanted Harry to meet that family in particular, but I’m not sure there was some cosmic force driving them together in the story itself.
I don’t think everything that happens to Harry is just down to fate, though a lot of the big things are. While Harry is certainly marked by destiny in ways he doesn’t yet understand, on a day-to-day level of analysis, Harry has to go through life, the same as every other student, and a lot of it is trial and error. Sometimes Harry gets it really right (like when he stands up to Draco and ends up being made Seeker), but other times, he gets it really wrong like when Draco finds out Hagrid has a dragon egg that’s hatched.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
This entire topic of freewill vs destiny in Harry Potter is actually very broad, and I think it requires a person to study all 7 books rather than just the first one, which is why I hesitate to continue with it until we get to at least book 3 (or at least the chapter about the Forbidden Forest in book 1). Entire academic papers have actually been written on this topic. So with that in mind, I only have a few things to add for now.
You mentioned that Harry befriending Ron is more chance than fate, so I turn this question back at you: what’s the difference?
Broadly understood, I take fate to be that which is predestined and things which are beyond one’s control; things pretty much had to turn out that way because of events put into motion even before one’s birth.
I keep coming back to the prophesy about Harry and Voldemort. The story pretty much had to unfold the way it did for there to be a story. One had to live and the other had to die.
Chance, on the other hand, isn’t predestined; things didn’t have to be that way. It could have been any magical family who helped Harry onto the Hogwarts Express. It was random whom Harry set next to on the first train trip to Hogwarts. In story, there was no “hand of fate” (other than J.K. Rowling’s hand) which meant Ron had to be the one to befriend Harry first, since as I wrote, it could’ve just as easily have been Dean, Seamus, or even Neville to befriend Harry first.
Having defined fate vs chance, let’s also define freewill. “It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities” says Dumbledore in The Chamber of Secrets (book 2). Harry wasn’t magically fated to be in Gryffindor; the Sorting Hat put Harry there knowing it would be the best fit, but Harry could just have easily have been put in Slytherin. However, the Sorting Hat took into account Harry’s freewill, which was vehemently opposed to having any further association with Voldemort, especially after the a peculiar wand chose Harry.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Does magic have agency? Or is it just a tool that wizards use in their daily lives?
For the most part, I think magic is just an everyday tool that wizards use in their daily lives. For example, Mrs. Weasley uses charms to help her with the household chores around the Burrow. However, with that said, there IS a strong element of fate in the Harry Potter world. As we’ll get to in book one, the Centaurs are very aware that certain things are indeed written in the stars.
The best case in point is the prophesy concerning Harry Potter and Voldemort. It’s interesting that Hermione, who is very logical, is very skeptical about divination in general, and about her professor, Sibyll Trelawney, in particular, in book three. While Sibyll is mostly a quack, she was able to see into the future on at least one very significant occasion.
And when I speak of fate I don’t mean JKR who is obviously our outside God-like figure making sure these three end up together, but rather in universe is there such a thing as fate? And how does it interplay with free will?
So, is magic mostly just a tool that wizards use for day-to-day things? Yes, but I’ll qualify my answer by responding that some things are indeed foretold. But there IS an element of freewill. That may seem like a paradox, but ultimately, some things are within our control (how we treat others) while other things are not in our control (who are parents are, for example). While Harry’s fate in particular is somewhat predetermined by forces beyond his control, it’s how he chooses to respond to those difficult circumstances that ultimately determines the final outcome of the entire series.
So, again, it’s a bit of a paradox: Tom Riddle sets certain things in motion when he uses dark magic to create horcruxes, but he inadvertently makes Harry himself into a horcrux. Harry, in tun, is fated to be The Boy Who Lives — but it’s down to Harry’s choice to sacrifice himself that leads to the downfall of Voldemort. But in theory, Harry could’ve joined Voldemort, though that was always HIGHLY unlikely, given Harry’s animosity against Voldemort for killing his parents.
Is there something that ensured Harry and Ron met on Platform 9 3/4 instead of Harry meeting the Malfoys? Would fate push Harry and Ron to being friends with Hermione, troll incident or not?
I suppose that Harry was already predisposed NOT to befriend a bully like Draco Malfoy, who reminds Harry a lot of his cousin Dudley. So, while I think Harry, who himself is a long-suffering victim of bullying, is more likely to be drawn to someone like Ron and Hermione over Draco, I still think it was a matter of chance (rather than say fate) that Ron was the boy whom Harry befriends first, rather than say Dean Thomas, Seamus Finnigan, or Neville Longbottom. Harry could just have easily have been best friends with Dean, Seamus or Neville over Ron.
Hermione becoming friends with Ron and Harry is also down to chance encounters that bring them together (or arguably author’s intent). Would that trio have become friends in different circumstances? Perhaps not. The reason I say so is because one choice always leads to a different set of choices and a different set of outcomes. For example, had Harry befriended Seamus and Dean first, he might not have been as drawn to Hermione and Ron, Harry’s need for best friends having already been fulfilled. That isn’t to say that Harry would have become enemies with Ron or Hermione, just that they might not have been as close to Harry as they became. Arguably, Harry would’ve simply regarded Hermione and Ron to be his classmates and fellow Gryffindors rather than his best friends if he already had Dean and Seamus to fill those roles in Harry’s life.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
In fact, I’d be willing to bet that many of us of were quite a bit like Hermione in our own schooling—I know I was.
Would you have been friends with Hermione at school?
Hermione has always been one of my favorite female characters. I cannot help but love her, because I sense a little bit of her in me, too. Hermione’s bookworm tendency is overcompensation. What she wants are real friends, but all she has are books; and she’s often found in the library … probably because it beats eating lunch alone. But Hermione doesn’t treasure knowledge for knowledge’s sake. What she prizes is true friendship, but it’s the one thing she’s lacked since coming to Hogwarts.
She’s clever, and she expects others around her to be as clever as she is. She is muggle-born, and she’s surrounded by her own kind for the first time in her life. It may be a surprise for Hermione that not every wizard or witch is as advanced or as enthusiastic as she is about learning. In fact, she probably figured she’d have tons in common with her fellow witches and wizards. Poor kid. She’s just so misunderstood, and most eleven-year-olds, no matter if they’re magical or not, are pretty much the same. Hermione is the exception, rather than the norm. She doesn’t dumb herself down just to fit in or to get boys to like her romantically. She just is that smart and isn’t afraid to hide it.
1. Why do you think Hermione can be a haughty know-it-all?
Well, as I wrote on the previous page, Hermione is misunderstood. She starts out a bit of a teacher’s pet, but really, she’s just wants to be accepted by her peers and her professors. She doesn’t necessarily mean to be rude; she simply wants to be admired and knowledge for Hermione is a means to an end to get what she really wants: acceptance, friendship, and belonging. She is so naturally smart that she exudes confidence, even if she’s insecure on the inside. She came to Hogwarts to find like-minded witches and wizards who’re as excited about magic as she is. She is muggle-born, so for Hermione to have gotten her owl it must’ve come as a wonderful surprise, and perhaps also a bit of a relief. Like Harry, Hermione probably had been exhibiting some odd signs like being able to make things happen when upset or scared, so for Hermione, is is so logical, having an explanation that there is a rhyme and a reason to seeming inexplicable goings-on must’ve come as a wonderful relief. Come to think of it, it’s no wonder Hermione is as enthusiastic as she is. All of the wizarding world is as totally unfamiliar to her as it is to Harry. The difference is that Hermione’s parents are really proud and supportive of Hermione (even though they’re muggles and don’t understand magic), compared to how hostile the Dursleys are to Harry when he gets his owl. Also, Hermione was probably top of her class at muggle school, so it’s probably little surprise that she’s top of her class at wizarding school.
Hermione lying to the Professors clue Harry and Ron (and, indeed, us) in to the fact that there is more to Miss Ganger than meets the eye, one of the biggest themes in this first book: things are not what they appear to be.
This gets at the heart of what I was alluding to yesterday: what Hermione desires most of all is real friendship and courage (the things she admires most about Harry). Hermione actually lies to three Hogwarts professors — something that goes against every fiber of her rule-following tendencies so far — to get her newfound friends off of the hook after they save her life. What Hermione has been craving ever since she got to Hogwarts, perhaps even her entire life, is authentic friendship. Here are the two boys she’s been following about and secretly longing to befriend, coming to her rescue! What girl wouldn’t stick up for her boys after they risk their lives to help her? How gallant, how true, and how brave — all the traits of real Gryffindors and real friends. Hermione finally belongs to a group of friends who’d actually do anything for her. “There are some things you can’t share without ending up liking each other, and knocking out a twelve-foot mountain troll is one of them.” Hermione already saved the boys once from Filch and as we’ll see, Hermione is a very useful friend to have indeed.
Do you think Hermione, Harry and Ron still would have become friends if there had never been a troll incident?
Probably not. I think that it took a life-or-death incident to bring about that particular trio becoming friends. It’s possible that Hermione might’ve eventually gotten through to Harry and Ron, but I think it took her lying to the professors to cover for Harry and Ron after they saved her life that led to their friendship. Prior to that, Ron and Harry both saw Hermione a rule-following tattle tale. Likewise, Hermione wasn’t willing to bend a rule for anyone until she learned what true friendship is as a direct result of nearly being eaten and then saved from that troll. Harry and Ron stepped up to the plate for her, and that was why she bent the rules then to get them out of a jam.
Which Quidditch position would you want to play?
Probably keeper.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Which brings us back to that question of the Hat and how does it know? (yes, yes, yes, it’s magic and it’s charming so I shouldn’t question it too much) but did the Hat sense something about Hermione and Minerva? Does it have some sort of prescience? What about Hermione as she stands right now in chapter 9 shows her Gryffindor nature–the bravery portion of what Gryffindor supposedly stands for? She goes on accidental adventures like the Trapdoor escapade in this chapter, but does not seek them out. In fact, she tries to get Harry and Ron to NOT go on the Midnight Duel adventure and she’s clearly a stickler for the rules. While I think she’s trying to forge a connection with the boys, I don’t think it’s that she longs for adventure in the same way that Harry and Ron are going to feel post Trapdoor midnight run. So what did the Hat see??
As for why Hermione is sorted into Gryffindor over Ravenclaw, I think she answers this herself in Sorcerer’s Stone. On the Hogwarts Express, she shows a clear preference for Gryffindor over Ravenclaw:
I’ve been asking around and I hope I’m in Gryffindor, it sounds by far the best, I hear Dumbledore himself was one, but I suppose Ravenclaw wouldn’t be too bad…”
We know the Sorting Hat takes a witch’s choice into account, so if it were struggling to place her, then it might use her preference as the deciding factor. Also, without getting too far ahead, I think Hermione must be very brave at heart to be in Gryffindor. It’s not that she’s not smart enough for Ravenclaw (she’s top of the class), but her boldness is evident to the Sorting Hat, which can read her mind. Also, I think a lot of strong leaders tend to come from Gryffindor, as exemplified by Albus Dumbledore and Minerva McGonagall, Hogwarts’ headmaster and deputy headmistress, respectively. Hermione, being aware of these facts from her extensive reading, already has made up her mind before she even gets to Hogwarts that Gryffindor is for her. That is also probably why Hermione is put into Gryffindor, because the hat senses she’ll do well there, because she has potential leadership qualities; she’s bold and isn’t afraid to take a stand.
Surprisingly, what Hermione cherishes the most isn’t knowledge but friendship, as opposed to Ravenclaw’s diadem, which reads “wit beyond measure is man’s greatest treasure.” While Hermione is clearly one of the smartest witches of her generation, she doesn’t prize cleverness for the sake of cleverness.
Later, in the dungeons as they’re trying to get to the Philosopher’s Stone, we have this particularly telling line:
“I’m not as good as you,” said Harry, very embarrassed, as she let go of him.
“Me!” said Hermione. “Books! And cleverness! There are more important things – friendship and bravery and – oh Harry – be careful!”
Hermione holds the values of Gryffindor – courage and bravery – higher than those of Ravenclaw – raw intelligence and knowledge. Hermione’s bookish nature and desperation to appear clever are because she wants to be liked and admired: by her teachers and by her peers. Yet, she is really overcompensating, because what she really wants are real friends. Her real insecurity isn’t a lack of cleverness, but of not having any friends. What Hermione craves most of all is authentic friendship, which is the real reason she tags along with Harry and Ron, using ‘protecting’ them as her cover.
I’m not sure the hat can tell the future, but it might sense that Hermione’s courage is one of her dominant traits. She’s not afraid to stand out, to speak up for those who’re unable to do so, to speak up in class, or to assert her knowledge for good. She uses her voice and her knowledge to help others. She doesn’t just value these traits; she exhibits them throughout the books. The Sorting Hat placed her in Gryffindor, because she has the traits of a Gryffindor within her, and placing her in that house can bring them out. She’s already very studious and intelligent, more so than a lot of Ravenclaws, so I think she has more to gain from Gryffindor than Ravenclaw.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Why do you think Hermione goes along with the boys, instead of alerting a teacher?
This is an interesting question. She states that she wants to make sure the boys don’t get into trouble and lose house points, but I think RG is on the right track. She doesn’t seem to be bonding with her dorm mates and only person she really talks positively about is Percy, a brother Ron wants to avoid and authority figure everyone else wants to avoid. She’s interacting with peers even if it’s not in a positive way.
One thing that always left me curious is why Hermione Granger never seems to make friends with the other female students, with the possible exceptions of Ginny Weasley and Luna Lovegood. Perhaps Hermione just prefers the company of men or perhaps Hermione shines too brightly, causing other witches to shun her. It’s been noted by psycholinguists that little boys tend to compete actively and to assert their dominance in their play, whereas little girls tend to assert “fair” rules and not to boast in front of their other female friends. Perhaps Hermione, being first in her year, just doesn’t really fit in with most of the female students in Gryffindor, because she excels academically. (That isn’t to say the other witches don’t do well academically, but Hermione makes no secret of her academic success, which might be off-putting to the other witches in her house).
Though Harry and Ron at first also find Hermione’s know-it-all personality to be off putting, they don’t feel threatened by her academic prowess. Not to get too far ahead, but they end up relying on her skills and knowledge time and time again (like her knowing how to unlock that door) to get them out of trouble. In fact, they find themselves increasingly grateful for a book-smart friend like Hermione who lends them her notes and pushes them to pass their exams with good marks. I think Hermione, being herself a competitive person, finds she gets on better with other boys like Ron and Harry, who’re themselves used to being bossed about a bit (i.e. Harry by the Dursleys and Ron by his older brothers).
Had Hermione been sorted into Ravenclaw, as the hat was tempted to do, I think it would’ve been much easier for Hermione to have met some more like-minded students, both male and female, whom Hermione would’ve found to be her peers academically speaking. Hermione has always reminded me a bit of a younger Minerva McGonagall — who is herself extremely smart and talented to have succeeded at the very top of her branch of witchcraft: transfiguration. It’s interesting that Minerva was able to succeed at the highest levels, eventually becoming headmistress of Hogwarts — a traditionally “masculine” role.
Both Minerva and Hermoine are hatstalls; the sorting hat delayed sorting either Hermione and Minerva, because it was deciding where to place each of them: either Gryffindor or Ravenclaw. The Sorting Hat spent five-and-a-half minutes wavering between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw before deciding to place Minerva in the former; it spent nearly four minutes trying to decide between Gryffindor and Ravenclaw for Hermione, and “seriously considered” putting Hermione in Ravenclaw, but ultimately went with Gryffindor instead. Both witches were put into Gryffindor, probably because of those remarkable ladies’ sheer guts, even though their brains are top-notch.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
