[Slurpeez]

So while I agree that the term “Muggle” is just an ordinary neutral term, I do continue to ponder that heightened sense of superiority that all Magic born have over the non-magic born.

This, I think, is the real reason for Petunia’s loathing of her magical sister, Lily, and Lily’s son. Petunia was jealous, and felt inferior. Petunia secretly felt rejected by the wizarding world and left out of Hogwarts, and so, she in turn rejected all things magical and tried to bar Harry from going there. If she couldn’t have it then neither could her nephew. So it’s not surprising that Petunia tried to praise normalcy and her rather mundane dunce of a son over her rather extraordinary nephew. She claimed that her sister was a freak, when, in reality, Petunia secretly wanted to be special too. Yet, the fact that Petunia was born a muggle meant she would be forever left out. So, because she felt rejected, she rejected the supernatural and sought to humiliate Harry.

[Slurpeez]

I get everyone has his or her own ideas of how to discuss a work of fiction. I’m just frustrated by not being able to discuss general themes that carry over from book to book — even in the appropriate spoiler tags. I’m more of a thematic reader who looks back at previously read details in light of things already known. It’s not that I’m not interested in the details; I’m just not the sort who likes to pretend as though it’s the first time I’m reading a work of fiction after I’ve already read it. In any literary criticism class I’d be the type of student hunting for thematic trends and focusing the author’s intent — as little details carry over across several different chapters, and perhaps even books. I’m not content just to point out possible foreshadowing details. If I’m being honest, I find it equally frustrating feeling like I can’t even  make sort of general observations even in spoiler boxes.  I vote that we be able to make those sort of grand narrative comments in the black spoiler boxes. If we can’t even discuss the future events in the spoiler tags, then I’m not entirely sure I’m going to be the best contributor to this thread.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Part of the fun for me is being able to discuss the entire series, as long as the points being made are relevant to the chapter being discussed. I think we should be able to discuss future events and how they relate to the series as a whole, provided we put spoilers in spoiler tags (that is their purpose after all). So, I’ll try to make more relevant remarks and comments about the current chapter, but I’ll put my thoughts about future events in spoiler boxes. Simply skip over the black boxes if you don’t want to read about future events/books.

In reply to chapter three…

We learn that Harry has been help prisoner under the stairs for several weeks and that he isn’t released until after the school term is over. Wouldn’t the British authorities investigate Harry’s prolonged absence of school? In the United States, having more than 3 unexcused days from school is a criminal offense called truancy, which applies  to students and extends especially to their guardians and parents. Guardians and parents found to be  guilty of keeping their children from deliberately attending school (without a proper medical excuse or proper homeschooling curriculum) can be fined and sent to jail if. So why aren’t the teachers, head master, and/or school counselors from Harry’s school concerned or at least suspicious when Harry doesn’t show up at school for weeks on end? Are we, the readers, supposed to buy that the officials at Harry’s school believe Harry is gravely ill, bedridden or in hospital?

No one can deny anymore that something “magical” is happening here, even if Harry hasn’t quite figured it out himself.

Exactly. How could Harry not suspect something supernatural was going on when letters continued to show up in mysterious ways? It’s odd enough when a letter shows up for the first time addressed to a Mr. H. Potter, the Cupboard under the Stairs. First of all, wouldn’t Harry be curious that the sender seems to know which room he lives in? Second of all, wouldn’t his suspicion that something magical is going on be heightened when the sender keeps changing the address, according to Harry’s change of room or physical location. Thirdly, wouldn’t Harry’s suspicion that magic actually exists be confirmed when he was witnesses the letters shooting out of the chimney or showing up in the morning eggs?

Next, I want to further comment on an observation previously made, but which was really underscored in chapter three. In response to receiving the first letter addressed to Harry, Petunia and Vernon are astonished and afraid that the wizards at Hogwarts know of Harry living under the stairs. Harry is then promptly removed from his cupboard to Dudley’s second bedroom. Presumably, Petunia and Vernon are frightened silly of being punished by the wizard community for the neglect and mistreatment of their nephew. Even the realization that they are being caught in the act, so to speak, without any threat being made, is enough to alleviate the mistreatment of Harry somewhat. But then that again raises the question of why it took nearly 11 years for any of the wizards to challenge the Dursleys’ neglect of their young nephew. As we saw in chapter 3, even the mere knowledge that they are being watched by the magical community is enough for them to change their treatment of Harry somewhat for the better (i.e. Harry gets Dudley’s smaller bedroom). After all, fear is a powerful motivator.

There are more examples of the abuse and neglect that Harry has been subjected to for the past ten years. Dudley is taken shopping for brand new uniforms for the private school he will be attending in the fall, and Harry is given some of Dudley’s old clothes that Petunia will dye gray for his uniform. We know from future chapters that Petunia is a neat freak, and that she often stayed up until after midnight cleaning the kitchen. Surely, it would have been easier to just buy Harry new clothes, rather than dying old clothes for his uniform? It was mentioned numerous times how awful it smelled, offending everyone in the family. For me this, solidifies the fact that Petunia went out of her way to make Harry miserable, when it would have been in everyone’s best interest to just buy him some cheap clothes. We also find out that there has been an extra bedroom in the house these last 10 years, filled with Dudleys broken and unwanted toys, and books that have never been opened. (What’s more astounding, is that as of right now, we really have no motivation for the why the Dursleys treat Harry this way, other than that he is “different”.)

Finally, I agree that Aunt Petunia really goes out of her way to make her nephew’s life miserable. Not only does she merely overlook him, but she really treats him unkindly and goes out of her way to intentionally humiliate him, as exemplified by making him wear smelly, oversized hand-me-downs. It’s not as if the Dursleys are hard up for cash either, and therefore unable to afford a new school uniform or a pair of new glasses for Harry. Petunia goes out of her way to spoil and to shower her simple-minded, cranky, and rather untalented son Dudley, while she intentionally shuns, deprives and puts Harry in his place. It’s as though Petunia’s loathing of her magical sister is being taken out on Lily’s son. Petunia’s mistreatment and abuse of Harry is complex, and is further discussed in the books to come. (I’m putting spoilers in spoiler boxes down below. Feel free to skip).

Finally, in reply to the discussion points…

Who do you think is sending the letters, and how do they know where Henry is at all times?

Obviously, someone magical.

Why do you think the Dursleys won’t let Harry read the letters?

Well, they don’t want their special nephew to know he’s special. However, I think the motivation is different for Vernon than it is for his wife, Petunia. Vernon is just your typical, close-minded muggle. Petunia, however, is more complex, since it’s clear she had a hateful relationship with her rather extraordinary sister. However, to analyze her, I’ll have to put my thoughts in spoilers.

Petunia’s rejection of all things magical is actually a secret and deeply embedded longing to be a witch herself. As a little girl, Petunia felt rejected by the magical world, and in direct consequence, she psychologically feels inferior — which explains her hatred of the supernatural.  As we later learn, Petunia probably was green with envy when her talented sister Lily got her letter from Hogwarts — and probably the admiration of Lily and Petunia’s parents. Petunia’s rejection by the wizards means she has learned to hate and to reject magic in turn, including her magical nephew, who exhibits the same early magical signs her sister Lily probably did. That explains why Petunia rejects her nephew’s magical talent in favor of her unremarkable, non-praiseworthy and untalented bully of a son, Dudley. Petunia probably prizes the ordinary, because she herself has a psychological need to feel that ordinary muggles can also be exceptional. Neither she, nor her unexceptional son, can ever hope to be part of Hogwarts the way Lily was, and so as punishment, Petunia seeks to bar her nephew from having access to that world the way she herself was denied access.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

I’m late in joining the Harry Potter party. I just wanted to touch on a few points from chapters 1-2 before I join in the discussion for chapter three.

Even though Dumbledore seems to trust McGonagall, I still would’ve expected him to be disturbed to find out that his plan to relocate Harry was so easy for someone on the outside to figure out. He was so unconcerned that he then left Harry on the Dursleys’ front step for several hours at night. It’s a weird thing to do even if Dumbledore left other agents watching from the shadows.

(By the end of the series, we’ve learned how devious Dumbledore can be, so I wouldn’t put it past him to use Harry as bait in a trap for the remaining Death Eaters.)

In reply to this point, I just want to point out a few things you may have overlooked, to help vindicate poor Dumbledore a bit. I fully realize Dumbledore’s judgement may not seem to make a lot of sense when one first reads book one. However, his long-term judgement was correct. This comment is a bit spoiler-y for those who haven’t read all 7 books or haven’t seen the movies, so I’ll put it in spoiler tags, but it does tie into a point @Josophine made about chapter 2.

1. As Jo pointed out, “Mrs. Figg and Aunt Marge. Names are not usually brought up unless they are important to the story and come up at a later point.” Don’t forget about Arabella Figg. She is the Dursleys’ neighbor whom we first hear about in chapter two. Ten-year-old Harry thinks of her as “Old Mrs. Figg” — his crazy, cat-lady neighbor whose house smells of cabbage. But she is much more than first meets the eye. In fact, she is a squib (a non-magical person born of a magical lineage). Being so, she is not your typical, oblivious muggle; in fact, as we learn at the end of book 4, Arabella a member of the Order of the Phoenix (a group of wizards and witches who fought Tom Riddle). Mrs. Figg has secretly been Dumbledore’s eyes and keeps watch over young Harry. So, I propose that Dumbledore didn’t just leave baby Harry to the wolves, so to speak, but that he assigned Arabella Figg to keep watch over the sleeping baby. It’s true, she is not a magical witch, but that doesn’t mean she is entirely useless, as she later proves in book 5. .

This is another thing to look out for: how JKR carefully subverts archetypes. Dumbledore is, without question, the wise old wizard who guides the hero on his journey. But given what we’ve been talking about and the implications of Dumbledore knowing what the Dursely’s were doing and not interfering, we have to wonder if he’s not a bit more ruthless and cold than he appears.

Warning, major spoiler if you haven’t read yet:
2. The reason Dumbledore left little Harry at Privet Drive, despite knowing that Harry would be mistreated by the Dursleys, is because Dumbledore knew a key detail that his other colleagues like Professor McGonagall did not. As Dumbledore later explains to Harry in book 5: “My answer is that my priority was to keep you alive’…’You would be protected by an ancient magic.” Dumbledore knew that there was a powerful and enduring magic protecting Henry so long as he was at the Dursleys’ home. However, much we may dislike Harry’s aunt Petunia, it was her blood link to Harry through his mother, Lily, that ultimately kept Harry safe while at Privet Drive #4.

I know that Dumbledore is perhaps a utilitarian in his ethics, as demonstrated by the treatment of his siblings. However, for the sake of the argument I’m making, the main thing to keep in mind is that Dumbledore wasn’t condemning baby Harry to death or exposing him to the wolves by choosing to leave him with the Dursleys. Albus Dumbledore was keeping Harry alive, though admittedly, with the fore-knowledge of something else about Harry’s future.

–Latent magical ability. Although Harry doesn’t know it. The strange things like the vanishing glass will make sense soon.

Is Harry’s magical ability really latent? It seems pretty early to me, or at least, right on schedule? For the first ten years of his life, he’s been showing weird signs. He can make his hair re-grow at will, shrink clothes he doesn’t like, or even disappear and reappear on top of his school. That sounds like pretty strong magic for a boy who doesn’t even suspect he could really be a wizard yet.

1. Could one or multiple people be watching over Harry through his childhood?

I’m going to go with yes. (See my answer above in spoilers).

2. How would Harry have turned out if the Dursleys had treated him fairly and like a family member as he was growing up and not like an outcast?

I suspect he would’ve been less lonely and less likely to search for parental figures outside of his family. I think at his core, though Harry is just a good-natured and kind-hearted boy; he becomes a well-adjusted adult with the love and support of his friends. If even his first 10-years of neglect by the Dursleys wasn’t enough to turn him bitter or turn him toward revenge like a certain other man who’ll not be named, then I suspect Harry feeling loved and cherished by his family would’ve only helped him along his path to becoming an amazing young person he becomes. The fact that he was able to overcome his sad and isolated childhood just goes to show he has an inner strength of spirit, and could point more to his parentage than his upbringing. Is it nature or is it nurture that helps Harry along his path? I’d argues a lot of it is having inner resilience that is part of his core nature, combined with the friendships he later develops at school.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

For me, Robin Hood and Mulan being from the fairytale world A&E have created is just as problematic as Arthur’s Camelot simply being one land of this fictional planet. These characters aren’t simply fictional fairy-tale characters like Cinderella. They may have been real people who lived in a real time and place in history (i.e. medieval Europe and China), but around whom legends have sprung up in the following centuries. However, for the sake of the story, I must admit that I’m curious to know how they’ll grapple with the host of difficulties that Arthur being an archetype Christian king seems to present. My guess is that these show-runners will simply skip over any religious significance of the Holy Grail and instead make it out simply to be some magical cup with mystical properties, like it grants eternal life (which yes, I realize is full of Christian symbolism).

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Morning. I was informed this morning that I have a family wedding to attend tonight. So my presence at the Ranch may not happen (cries because it’s wedding dress night)

Oh the irony of that statement.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

So, I logged in to find out I’m Neal again. Okay … I think I’ll leave him. I miss Neal.

The end.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Awesome! 😀

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Henry has been her center for 4 seasons. She fights to get home to Henry. Always. That has been Emma’s drive. It’s one of the quintessential character follow throughs for Emma Swan. She’ll face a dragon, for Henry. She’ll battle a giant and Cora, for Henry. She’ll go to Neverland and declare herself a mother, for Henry. She’ll leave her family behind to be sucked up in a swirling purple cloud of terror (lots of clouds of terror over the years), for Henry. She’ll kill Cruella, for Henry. She’ll believe that Henry will find her in a Author-inspired alternate reality. Henry is and always shall be her true love. So for Emma to give in to the darkness because it’s easier than facing her current situation (even if that situation isn’t as dire as it has been in the past) and not fight for Henry at the very least…well that just feels outta character.

Without wanting to ruffle any feathers — it’s Emma’s and Henry’s true love that I think will ultimately be featured with a TLK by the end of season 5. I know a lot of people are rooting for a romantic kiss for Emma, but I just have this feeling that a kiss from Henry to Emma would be the best way to end the entire series. Think about it: it was Emma’s true love for Henry that saved him in S1, and if s5 were to be the last season, then Emma fighting her inner darkness for the sake of Henry, and Henry likewise fighting for his mom, would be the ultimate series finale ever, climaxing with Henry kissing Emma to set her free. It was maternal love that saved Henry, and I think that Henry’s and Emma’s child-parent bond could be what helps Emma break free from the clutch the darkness holds over her.

Also, Henry’s effort to save his mother from being consumed by the darkness would be an excellent parallel, and ultimate contrast, with Baelfire’s failed attempt to save his father from the darkness. Because Emma herself is True Love incarnate, and because the love she bares for her son is so strong, I think she would be willing to give up all the power for her son, whereas Rumple could not. The reason true love’s kiss didn’t work for Rumple was because, ultimately, he didn’t want to be powerless. As Belle said, Rumple’s true love was power, because he kept choosing it, even over his loved ones. However, we know that Rumple by nature was cowardly when he was just a spinner. Emma, by contrast, has never been craven. Emma is the total opposite of cowardly Rumple, who was too afraid to give up magic, even for Belle and Baelfire. Just like her father, Emma is especially brave when it comes to her protecting child; she is like a mother lioness guarding her cub. Emma giving up power because Henry means more to her than the power could be what helps free her and defeat the dark curse for good.

That maternal love emphasis of s5 could be where Merida from Brave could tie in. I’m pretty sure that Merida helped to save her mother from the bear curse with TLK. Maybe Henry could do likewise to help save Emma. The theme of maternal love could (hopefully) come front and center again, the way it was in S1. It would be a nice way to bookend the entire series if Emma’s canonical true love were simply her son, rather than any romantic partner. Emma and Henry are already confirmed as having maternal true love, and it would be a sort of resolution to have that familial kind of love being the “happily ever after” that was hinted at in the episode Going Home when Regina gave Emma and Henry happy memories of a life spent together. According to A&E, this show has always been about Emma and Henry’s fairy tale, so what better way to end the show than to have them turn out to be the ones who save one another?

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Slurpeez wrote:

I think that if Merida is related to anyone, her being the daughter of Zelena and Robin Hood makes the most sense. Come on, her red curly hair and her mad archery skills…

Adam already shut that theory down. See a few pages back for the tweet.

I didn’t read through all the pages…Just seems like another missed opportunity.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Author]

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