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I’m not really in camp Regina or camp Rumple. For crying out loud, Rumple murdered his first wife. Regina had her first husband killed. Neither is a saint by any stretch of the imagination. In S3, both Regina and Rumple made great sacrifices for the sake of the ones they loved. Does that mean I think either is firmly in the hero camp? No way. I think both have done some highly questionable things since then, especially Rumple. I think both Regina and Rumple admit their dark tendencies. Rumple, way more than Regina, seems to have been almost totally overcome by his dark one curse after he was held prisoner by Zelena and his son died in his arms. Regina has done a better job of trying to walk the line, but still wavers every so often, but she at least seems to want to do the right thing for the sake of Henry, unlike Rumple, who doesn’t care about doing right even by Belle anymore. Of the two, I think Regina has made more strides towards redemption (though this recent episode seemed like a step backwards), and therefore is the more likely of the two to achieve real happiness. However, I will say that I think both Rumple and Regina are going about getting their happy endings the wrong way by getting the Author to rewrite their story.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Cora did comment to Henry Sr that Regina was in danger of becoming an “old maid”.
Maleficent also said that Snow got married at the same age Regina got married. How old was Snow when she married Charming? I would’ve guessed that Snow was in her 20s. IF so, then that would mean Regina was in her 20s when she married Leo.
Leopold was a neglectful husband certainly but how much did Regina lie and manipulate the situation to make Leopold look bad so Sidney would kill him for her?
Agree. Regina was setting up Sydney to murder her husband. Of course, Regina was going to slant things to make Sydney sympathize with her and do her dirty work for her. By that time, Regina was the Evil Queen, and she may have exaggerated the truth. While Leo was neglectful of Regina, she was free to come and go from the castle, as we saw when she left to go with Tinkerbell to the tavern. Also, Regina was able to leave the castle to practice magic with Rumple. I think Regina was able to bend Leo to her will on a lot of matters, as Cora said the Leo was not a strong man.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Emma shouldn’t really go dark over protecting her child, but the writers will use it as the way she goes dark because of the whole “heroes don’t kill” mantra.
I agree. Emma protecting her child was heroic. The entire platitude that “heroes don’t kill” is empty and devoid of truth. What about everyday heroes who have to make life-and-death decisions to keep civilians safe from psychopaths who would harm innocent people? The police and the military make the difficult decisions so that private citizen can feel secure to walk on the street. Emma is a police woman, and as such, she upheld her duty to save a child (her child) from a hostage situation. She didn’t know Cruella was defenseless. All Emma knew in the heat of the moment was that a deranged woman was holding a gun at her son and threatening to shoot. Emma acted under pressure to rescue Henry. I dislike the writers’ attempt to twist an act of heroism of a mother saving her child into something dark and twisted, because it isn’t. Emma should be honored with a medal of valor, not branded a villain for something that most society would deem heroic.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
While I don’t think Leopold would force her to say yes, a King could definitely make this happen. We’re talking about a teenager being asked by the main power welder in the land, who could be her grandfather, for her hand in marriage. He can do whatever he wants.
We just have very different views. I agree Leo was sketchy to marry someone so much younger, but I don’t think he tyrannical. For example, Leo didn’t arrest Cora after she tried to con him into marrying her so she could pass off Zelena as his child. Instead, Leopold quietly ended their engagement, as I think he would’ve done for Regina. I don’t think anyone forced Regina to say her wedding vows to Leopold. I think by the time Rumple stopped her on the road, she’d had a taste for power after sending her mother through the mirror–a moment she loved.
As was said in We Are Both:
Regina: And I won’t become like her [Cora]?
Rumple: That, dearie, is entirely up to you.Regina had responsibility in choosing her destiny. I think Regina wanted power by then. That incident of using magic changed her, and may have led to her wanting the title of queen, which prompted her to turn around and marry Leo. The irony is that Regina became like Cora, which was up to Regina, as Rumple said. What’s more is that Regina was already a royal by birth from another kingdom (King Xavier), so I don’t think she was under the command of Leopold, who ruled a neighboring kingdom. I think this conversation is circular, and ultimately will prove fruitless. So we may have to agree to disagree.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
On the show that we’ve all watched Regina never said yes. And while the legal age is 18 in the United States we are talking about the Enchanted Kingdom where the King is the law and you are making the argument that Regina, the 18 year old girl has the agency to tell the King, who is the law, no, I don’t want to marry you even though my mother said yes.
It’s true that we never saw the actual wedding ceremony between Regina and Leopold, so we didn’t actually hear the words “I do” come out of Regina’s mouth. Yet, there could be no marriage if it weren’t for Regina saying those words. As for Regina’s betrothal to Leopold, I think she could have broken her engagement to the king. Despite Leopold’s proposal being accepted by Cora, I don’t think Leopold was so unreasonable that he would’ve punished Regina if she’d gone to him and said she didn’t want to marry him. Not even a king has the power to force someone to say yes in a wedding vow.
Cora herself said that Leopold was not a strong man, and that the kingdom would be Regina’s once wed. That doesn’t make Leopold sound like an strong-willed, unyielding kind of king, but like one who would’ve listened to Regina. Would Leopold have locked up Regina or her father for honestly making her desire known to call off their marriage? That answer is going to differ based on interpretation, but I doubt it. True, Regina said she felt like a prisoner after she married the king, but I doubt she was ever his actual prisoner under lock and key. Leopold wasn’t a murderous tyrant, for all his shortcomings given his complicated history with the Mills women. By all other accounts, Leopold was a fair and just king. For example, Leopold wished for the genie to be free, revealing he didn’t use his wishes for selfish gain. I think Leopold would’ve honored Regina’s request to break off the engagement that her mother made on her behalf. The thing is, we can never know for sure, because that isn’t what happened. I’m basing my surmising on what we’ve seen and know of Leopold in the story.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
But Ursula has already gone and it doesn’t look like she’ll be back. Is she set to come back in any other episodes?
Good question. I haven’t been keeping track, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if Ursula makes another cameo before the end of the season.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Wasn’t Regina like 17-18 years old? A series of traumatic things happened to her. She’s engaged to the King, who is 3x her age, even though she never consented to that and you expected her to have the agency to just say “Welp, never mind!”? Regina never said yes. Her decision to not say no does not mean she consented. All of that reads to me like a proverbial gun to her head.
How do you know Regina never said yes? Regina is the one who said the marriage vows, not her mother or Rumple. Her mother wasn’t even present at Regina’s wedding, because Cora was in Wonderland by then. I’ve had this same discussion with fans of Regina since S2, so I don’t want to get into again. All I’m going to say is that 18 is the legal age of adulthood at which people are allowed to smoke, to legally marry without parental permission, to vote for president, own property, go to war, and in most countries, drink. A person at the age 18 will be tried as an adult in a court of law. Therefore, a person who is a legal adult must face the consequences of his or her own choices. Unless someone had Regina’s heart (e.g. Cora, Rumple), no one forced Regina to walk down that aisle or to say “I do.”
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
However at the same time, if Belle still genuinely feels that way for Rumple then why is she with Will?
Because the writers want to create drama and angst just for the heck of it. They enjoy tearing out the figurative hearts of Rumbelle and ScarletQueen fans and toying with them. I am expecting Anastasia to be dead at this point (again), but I hope I’m wrong.
I don’t deny that Rumple was a word-I-can’t-say-here for how he used Jefferson and Victor to manipulate Regina into going full on dark, (“making his monster”), but maybe she wouldn’t have been in a situation where he’d have been able to manipulate her in that way if she hadn’t made the choice to turn around and keep learning magic, instead of sticking to her guns and leaving.
I agree. Rumple and Cora may have manipulated events such that Regina’s life sucked, but it was Regina’s choice to turn around and marry Leopold. Cora had already gone through the mirror at that point, and Regina had yet to say “I do” at that point. No one held a gun at Regina’s head and made her say those marriage vows. Rumple certainly preyed upon Regina’s vulnerability for dark magic and unstable emotional state, but Rumple didn’t pull the trigger, so to speak. He simply knows how to recognize a desperate soul, like Zoso did.
As for my 2c on HeartGate, I think that it’s absurd that someone who had been treated as she had by Regina in the past would willingly give up her entire agency to said person, and put her life in their hands. I also think it’s absurd that Belle would have given the Dagger to Hook. Basically I think they’ve made Belle act pretty stupid recently. So maybe she DID give her consent for Regina to take her heart because unfortunately it’d be in character for her these days.
WORD. Whether her heart was given by consent or not, either way the situation is a lose-lose in my estimation. If Regina steals her heart and then erases Belle’s memory of it (something we actually saw Regina do), it makes Regina come off smelling like a villain. If Belle gives up her heart willingly, it makes Belle seem as stupid as ever like when she trusted “Hook” (another person who terrorized her and made her life hell). Either way, Belle is still used as leverage over Rumple (and in the most callous way, seeing how Regina made Belle say incredibly hurtful things for a man I bet she still loves deep down). I’m not saying Rumple didn’t have it coming to him (he did), but Belle and Robin are the only innocent party here. Both Regina and Rumple are playing a very dangerous game in which they are vying for the title of chess champion while Robin and Belle are pawn pieces. I’m not a huge fan of they way either Regina or Rumple is being written at present, but I do think they both were using darker tactics to try and protect the ones they love.
If Belle never said those callous things, Rumple would never have believed she was being controlled. We saw Rumple challenge Regina’s willingness to complete the threat after realizing Belle was being controlled. To me that shows you how unsuccessful a fake heart would go over.
I disagree. Belle could’ve just acted like it was her heart which Regina was squeezing. There was always that small chance that Rumple wouldn’t have believed Belle’s acting, but he seemed so distressed as soon as Regina started to apply pressure that he immediately agreed to Regina’s terms. A man who is in that much distress over seeing his beloved’s heart being squeezed could almost believe anything in the heat of the moment, even enough to be fooled into thinking a fake heart belonged to Belle.
I do agree that the real victims are Belle, Robin, and (Roland). I could go on a whole rant about what loving a villain means on this show, but I won’t.
Yeah, that’s an issue for all of the villain-hero pairings. The problem with dating a villain (even a former one) is that villains create many enemies. And as we’ve seen with Rumple, many villains have tried to target Belle over the decades to get at Rumple (e.g. the QoD, Regina, and Hook). Come to think of it, I’m almost surprised Zelena hasn’t targeted Belle yet to get at Rumple, but then again Zelena did go after Baelfire instead.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Staria might be her last name. Lily Staria.
If so, then maybe that is her adoptive father’s last name. I’ve been wondering if either Lily’s adoptive dad or birth day might be the sorcerer. If her adoptive father is the sorcerer, then that could explain his absence from town. He’s been raising Lily in ALWM.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
