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“I’ve been out in Vancouver, Canada [where OUAT films] for the last eight years. My children love it out there, they go to school there, they’ve got friends there. I really have to think about them most, more than I have to think about me.
“I wouldn’t be surprised if I ended up still back there, but you never know.”

Good old Bobby! He’s such a family man. From the way it sounds, he doesn’t find working on ONCE personally fulfilling anymore, but he’s thinking of his family and the show pays him well enough to support them comfortably. Unless another steady-paying acting job comes along it sounds like he might be tempted to stay another year for the sake of his family. In other words, it’s really more about the money than the job anymore, which is kind of sad because Bobby is such a talent and could be doing so many other projects like independent films. The trouble is those don’t pay as well and aren’t as steady.

Carlyle’s comments follow Morrison revealing she doesn’t “have it in me to do it forever” when asked about the show’s future. She said: “My contract ends in April on Once Upon a Time. I don’t know what that means.”

I did finally listen to the podcast interview with Jennifer Morrisonon on The Drop-In. While it sounded like she was very thankful to have all of the opportunities that have come her way thanks to her fame from House and now OUAT, she also said she “was born to direct” and sounded like she might want a career shift. She would love to direct more movies, her true passion. She seems to have become a bit tired by the demands of a network TV filming schedule. I could potentially see her acting on a cable TV show, which would have a better filming schedule, and also directing more independent films in the future.

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At least for me, part of it is what others have articulated around critique as an exciting form of intellectual and social engagement.

That’s exactly what it is for me. I really like to read literature, and so I really enjoy a literary critique. That doesn’t mean I tear every book I read to shreds or belittle everything authors have written. Offering a critique does not necessarily mean one dislikes something at all. It means she wrestles with it intellectually. I like the kind of engagement that you might get at a book club, for example. This forum has been a place to discuss the show, or rather, its script. I like looking beneath the hood (to borrow the metaphor from @nevermore about being a car enthusiast who tinkers with its parts). I really like looking for authorial intent, symbolism, and the overarching narrative framework. I like looking for the driving force of the show as well as analyzing characters both on an individual level and in relationship with other characters. That is why I used to love analyzing OUAT. There was so much to analyze, and the show was heading in a direction that the writers had hinted at since the very first season and which was in keeping with how the characters had previously been written.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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Has anyone posted that article about Jennifer Morrision’s contract being up in another thread yet?

RumplesGirl wrote:

Anyone wanna place a bet: original songs or Disney songs?

Original songs, and I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of getting Alan Menken to do them. He’s been writing for TV for the past few years, which of course included Galavant. Doesn’t hurt that Karen David has worked with him, and could provide Adam and Eddy with a connection.

I’d like to hear a mix of new songs and Disney songs. There have already been some very funny moments in the show due to Snow and Emma’s singing songs from the Snow White animated film. In 1×16, Snow, under the effect of a memory-altering potion, hummed With a Smile and a Song until she hilariously tried to swat the blue bird with a broom.
 In 6×10, Princess Emma, under the amnesic effect of the Wish World, hummed Someday My Prince Will Come from the original cartoon, to which Regina voiced “Emma?” — to great comedic effect.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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Since there likely will be a musical episode of Once, I thought I’d share a video of OUAT set to the opening song of S2 of Galavant — Swanfire style.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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Obviously, I can’t speak for anyone else, but it seems to me that one should not equate intellectual engagement with uncritical approval. There are many different ways to consume a media product, and not all of them fall along the lines of “like=will watch/dislike=won’t watch.” A bit of a false analogy, but lets take the news — another kind of media product. Just because I don’t like some of the things being reported on, or don’t like the particular political “spin” doesn’t mean I’m going to stop consuming the news. Or just because I find a text (broadly defined) problematic or offensive, doesn’t necessarily mean I will stop reading it — but I certainly don’t have to like it or feel the need to praise it.

THAT.

Some of us have been here pretty much since day one, before any fandom drama, before any shipping wars. We came because we liked season one, and some stayed. I haven’t done so out of any loyalty to the show. No, the draw is this group of fans who also have been here from the start. In particular, the SF thread has always been a Swanfire family appreciation thread, but it’s also always been a safe space for fans to discuss their dislike of CS and also discuss media more broadly. It’s also an oasis for those who felt the show let them down after season three (e.g. Rumbelle, Outlaw Queen, Swanfire family, Snow/Charming, Neal/Rumple). We can offer analysis and critique of the show without fear of offense in this space. The general discussion is fine, interesting even, but please realize that this thread in particular is a safe space for those who feel frustrated with the show and feel the need to vent. People are free to question the writers here and criticize the pirate in this place because it is our little haven. It’s one of only places in the entire online fandom where we don’t have to walk on eggshells or justify why we don’t appreciate the show for the “new direction” it went in after season three.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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If the article is true, then a musical would probably be a ratings ploy. That being said, I wouldn’t mind a musical episode — if done in in the spirit of a parody like Galavant. One of the biggest issues this show has always had is that it takes itself too seriously for what is basically a live-action Disney show. Adding some parodic ballads would be a much welcomed reprieve from the heavy drama of this show and its fandom.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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I think we can all agree that we’re all fans of Once (or at least fans of the way it used to be). I think there is a sense of disappointment amongst many dedicated fans, and not just those who liked Neal or wanted Emma to end up with him. Many fans, including fans of Emma, Rumple, Belle, Robin Hood, and even Snow and Charming are sad. I think a lot of fans are disappointed with the way recent seasons have unfolded.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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1. So…you point blank admit you’re ignoring the shows canon and just coming up with headcanons and then try to defend those headcanons as fact? ….Alright. You do you, but…you have headcanons whereas I have what is stated specifically on the show. Also Jane Espenson stated when Going Home aired that the reason that kiss did not work was because Emma had her memory wiped. And TLK will never work with a memory wipe. And what drained her magic was Emma giving Hook CPR after Zelena whom cursed his lips tried to drown him. I’m sure you would have loved for Emma to let Hook drown but that is not what was gonna happen

No, I’m not ignoring the show. I’m looking at the events that took place, and I’m analyzing them; it’s just different from how you analyze them. Other fans choose to dig below the surface because there might just be more going on than meets the eye. You claim to already know the outcome of the entire show, whereas I don’t, so the burden of proof is more on you than anyone else. The fact remains that Emma and Hook haven’t shared TLK. Many CS fans try and convince themselves and others that Hook and Emma share true love, despite the evidence to the contrary (many failed TLKs). However, the thing that would most convince other fans that CS does indeed have true love is the very thing CS keeps not getting: TLK.

I look below the surface. You can call it “head-canon” if you want, but I call it reading between the lines. For example, there were the middlemist pink flowers in the field were CS shared another failed TLK, and those were the same kind of pink flowers that Arthur gave Gwen (not a great sign). It’s a way the writers can show that CS and Arthur/Gwen are similar kinds of unhealthy romantic pairings. While there might a standard way that CS fans have to explain it away, it’s a symbol that’s really hard to ignore. Also, if we’re going strictly by canon, Emma told Merlin in Nimue that not seeing Rumple in her head was probably a bad sign.

Emma: When I was seeing Rumplestiltskin in my head, he said he would only be with me until I embraced my dark powers. So recently, I’ve been thinking maybe not seeing him, maybe that’s a bad thing.

Interesting, seeing how it was Hook taking Emma to the field of pink flowers that quieted the voice inside of Emma’s head. Could it be that the closer Emma and Hook got, the closer Emma got to embracing her dark one powers? I’m thinking that is a resounding yes, seeing how Merlin also warned Emma that she would stain her very soul if she chose to embrace the darkness. Merlin warned it was the darkest path that she could take.

Merlin: I see two paths for our journey, Emma. On one, you resist the darkness and we succeed. On the other, you succumb to the darkness and I do not return. I die….If I die, it means that you lost your battle and the darkness stained your soul. Everything and everyone that you know will be at the mercy of the most powerful dark one ever… Yourself. No pressure.

Emma darkened her very soul when she saved Hook with Excalibur. To Hook’s credit, he resisted and wanted Emma to go on and have a future without him. Instead, she gave into the darkness to save him. She was ready to use the Promethean flame to rid the world of the darkness forever when Hook started bleeding. Emma showed how love can be a weapon by choosing to tether Hook to an actual sword. That is some very obvious symbolism, and there probably couldn’t be a more telling way to show Hook and Emma’s love is like a weapon with the ability to break their hearts. I call it choosing to read all of the revealed symbols and not just take someone’s word for it.

2. Probably because if she shared her heart with him at the beginning of the season then we wouldn’t have had a S5B. They had to go to the Underworld for a reason. The writers also absolutely show that CS is very much like Snowing. Hence why Emma says the Snowing catch phrase “Hook I will find you, I will always find you”. That was a straight up confirmation that CS=Snowing.

Emma said her father’s line when she was going to the UW, but that does not mean CS is the exact same as Snowing. My take on it is that Emma desperately wanted to believe her relationship with Hook is the same kind as her parents’ marriage, but there’s nothing to back it up. Unlike Snowing, who’ve shared TLK dozens of times, CS doesn’t have anything to show for it. If anything, CS has multiple failed attempts at TLK . It’s only natural that Emma would desire to have the same kind true love as her parents, but that doesn’t mean she’s found it yet with Hook. Again, it’s a matter of interpretation.

3. Clearly since you basically stated you ignore canon and think your head-canons are somehow more canon than what actually happens on the show and what comes out of the creators and actors mouth that know way more about the character than you do.

Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said I ignore canon nor that my way of seeing things is “more canon” (those were your words). Everything I wrote is based on my interpretation of canon events. CS fans love to try and dictate what is the correct interpretation of canon and what isn’t and look for the writers and actors to back them up. Well, what is canon is that CS has never shared TLK. CS fans will do verbal acrobats to try and convince themselves and others of why their favorite couple still hasn’t shared TLK, but they haven’t. The writers have had ample chances to convince fans like me that CS share TL. They shouldn’t have to tell  fans like me it’s the case; they ought to show me and give me clear reasons.

Of course, the showrunners will tell CS fans what they hear because Hook and Emma are are couple in the show, and they want you to buy their product. ABC’s advertising department promotes CS as an “epic” love story because it keeps CS fans watching. But is all the while, the writers might just be showing a different kind of story, at least to viewers who have the eyes to see it. Fans of CS don’t want to see it that way, and probably nothing will convince them of any other possible conclusion than CS is great. They can praise Hook’s deeds and call his relationship with Emma amazing and romantic, but it won’t change the way many other fans see it: unhealthy and selfish.

It’s like @RumplesGirl wrote: it comes back to emotional truths. You want to prove to everyone that CS is the greatest thing ever, but most people have already made up their minds over the past five seasons about Hook and his relationship with Emma, the same way they have formed opinions about Henry, Regina, Snowing, Rumple and the rest of the characters. At the end of the day, you have your set of beliefs about Hook and other people have theirs, and probably nothing anyone writes will sway anyone else.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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For someone whom pays attention to “canon” you sure are ignoring some pretty big things.

1. They gave specific reasons within the episode as to why those kisses did not work. The first one was that Emma did not think anything was wrong with her. The second failed one was specifically stated by Rumple. Emma liked the darkness, and the power charge she got from it. That’s why that kiss did not work.

That is a stated reason in the show, and you can take it at face value. I think that all of the failed attempts at TLK are quite telling and still open to interpretation, however. Emma might just have been telling herself that was the reason, and the Rumple in her head was a manifestation of the darkness speaking. Was it the true reason that Emma’s curse wasn’t broken though? Emma did feel the lure of the darkness, but if anyone was ready to overcome darkness for good, it was Emma Swan, the savior, the product of true love, and wielder of light magic. Dark magic isn’t her true love the the way it is for Rumple, nor was she addicted to it, and I think if Emma had kissed Henry while she was still cursed, then her dark one curse would have been broken. (The fact that Emma didn’t even try kissing Henry on the forehead was just due to plot in my opinion). Emma was ready and willing to get rid of the darkness once and for all and was on the threshold of doing so before Hook started bleeding and she saved him with dark magic. Emma was ready to be rid of the dark one curse forever in Camelot. There were also other failed attempts at TLK back in SB, and Hook expressed surprise that it “didn’t bloody work” when he tried to break her curse with his kiss. By the time Emma was back in SB and fooling everyone, she wanted to help Hook overcome the darkness with the strength of their love, but Hook rejected her as the dark one. Emma implored him and tried to get him to see that they were able to overcome it together, but instead he turned on her and tried to have her family mass murdered. Also, there was that time in season three when Hook’s lips were cursed due to his “selfish plea” on Emma Swan’s name, and instead of it being broken, it drained Emma of her true love magic, the thing that makes her special.

2. Emma failed to share her heart with Hook because as the show stated Hook was a rotting corpse in SB. The only reason the Snowing one was successful was because Charming was dead for a very small amount of time. This was stated in dialogue.

Why didn’t Emma try sharing her heart with Hook right away before his body was carried off? I think the writers want to keep this one open to debate, the way we’re doing now. Why not just show Emma sharing her heart with Hook to quiet anyone who doubts if their love is kind of love that Emma’s parents share? The writers had the chance to show Emma and Hook share true love unambiguously, either by heart sharing or by true love’s kiss, but the writers didn’t do that, leaving many still skeptical.

3. “True love shove”, funny because the people that say that are the ones that like to mock CS and say that Emma and Regina are a romantic pairing.

I’m not shipper of Emma and Regina romantically, so I don’t really see what the relevance of that point is. You seem convinced that most of us here blindly hate on Hook while turning a blind eye to the misdeeds of Regina and Rumple. No, I hold Regina, Rumple and Hook all equally accountable for their sins, and I don’t ship Emma and Regina romantically. While I do think Emma and Regina love each other, I think it’s as friends and family members. Emma clearly sacrificed herself to spare Regina from becoming the dark one. Also, if we’re going strictly by canon, Neal and Emma shared true love, as evidence by the swan pendant crossing realms twice because it was born out of true love. But CS fans don’t like to admit it and claim it’s just Belle’s opinion. Again, it’s a matter of interpretation.

But enough about that, it’s not only CS fans though. The entire cast including Adam and Eddy spent the entire time at Comic Con reinforcing that Emma and Hook are true love. So not that ambiguous seeing as they point blank said it loud and clear at CC, and Jennifer and Colin said it in basically every interview.

I’m very aware that the cast have called CS true love but that just may be the party line. The scene was written in a very ambiguous way open to interpretation. Hades and Zelena and Ruby and Dorothy shared true love’s kiss in the same half season, verifiably demonstrating they those couples had true love, but I’ve yet to see irrefutable proof that Hook and Emma have true love. For all the kissing that Emma and Hook do on screen, I still haven’t seen them share TLK — not once. Emma and Hook’s curse didn’t even start to break the way that Rumple’s did when he and Belle kissed in Skin Deep–up until Rumple pulled away because it was working. Until such time that I see Emma and Hook share TLK on screen, I’m not going to call it true love. You can have your own take on it, and I can have mine. The script is open to interpretation still as far as I’m concerned.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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I agree that realism is a problem but I think the biggest is lack of coherent world building. Nothing plot wise nor character wise matters because the writers can change on a dime whenever they see fit, either for a better idea or because they simply don’t care to keep things consistent. This fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants world building doesn’t work because not only does magic not make sense (or just any random plot device) but it also means big concepts like what good or evil actually *is* are so ill defined that it’s hard (if not impossible) to tell a story.

I would agree with this assessment. There’s a lack of overall coherency now in the story, both in terms of jumbled plot lines and a lack of clear character motivation. There’s no longer a clear driving force besides a vague notion of characters figuring out what it means to live happily ever after. I think there needs to be a natural conclusion, and it needs to be soon and not drag on any longer.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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