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Slurpeez
ParticipantMost of these obstacles were not of their own making, but the result of dealing with fairytale magic-driven, desperate people trying to lead them astray one way or the other. If Neal and Emma were just two people who met, then fell in love –they would have struggled as anyone else but they would have found strength in each other because that is the type of relationship they had. For the first time, they found someone with whom they could take down the walls and be honest.
That is one of the biggest reasons why I favor SF and believe they’ll be end-game. Neal and Emma truly love one another, and their having to sacrifice their relationship was the result of the dark curse (just like Snowing). They were kept apart by forces outside of themselves, not because they as a couple are incompatible. Adam and Eddy said on the record that Neal leaving Emma was a self-sacrifice, because he hated having to walk away from the woman he loved or causing her pain. It would be a completely unhappy ending for Emma and Neal not to get their second chance at true love, which is with each other. And here we have the official ABC promotion telling us to believe in Neal’s second chance, which he said in 3×3 was a second chance with Emma and Henry. So, I do expect to have some positive SF scenes tonight. I just think their relationship is going to be put on hold once again by this new curse, which will also bring the advent of CS. Nevertheless, I no longer dread this coming age, because I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Now that I’m thinking about it, I wonder if the reason we haven’t had the juicy CaptainFire stuff could be because if they showed that, showed Hook genuinely reforming out of guilt for what he’d done to Bae, he’d start to look like a less negative step-dad option, and a more realistic option for Emma, which would drag the triangle out for much longer, and they don’t wanna do that. So instead they’re writing him in a continually negative light in a bid to shut the triangle down and show him as not really being a realistic contender. Perhaps? An explanation like that wouldn’t take away my disappointment over not having gotten the CaptainFire stuff, but at least there’d be a method to their madness that I could appreciate.
Maybe. I do find it interesting that Hook was being built up as a “reformed” pirate up until 3×5, which ironically was called “Good Form”. In reality, I think the way Hook has gone about “wooing” Emma has shown bad form: saving Charming to get Emma to “owe” him a kiss, saving Henry to win Emma’s favor, saving his “good friend” Neal with the idea showing Emma he’s the bigger man, “stepping back” from Emma to let Neal have a crack. Yet, the underlying tension is that Hook is afraid to reveal himself truly to Emma, probably because he is afraid she’d reject him if she knew the truth. Hook seems to think Emma sees him as a man or honor, but when compared to Neal, I see a big contrast. Yes, Neal left Emma to go to prison, but in an effort to get her home. Hook left Emma for dead in a jail cell as a way to prevent her from getting home to her son. Hook helped saved Charming, but then solicited a kiss from Emma to show him what her “father’s life is worth” to her. By contrast, Neal got his father to agree to saving Charming with no expectation of favors because it’s just “the right thing to do.” Also, Hook claims Neal is a “good friend” whom he missed and toasted his memory, but at the same time, he is making a play for the woman Neal loves. That flies in the face of the bro code! And that kind of betrayal is confounded by the fact that Hook helped destroy Nealfire’s family as a child. Hook supposedly loves Nealfire, yet he thinks he’s setting him up to fail? Excuse me?! That’s a scummy thing to do to stab your so-called son figure in the back like that! Now Hook is trying to thwart Nealfire’s second chance at a family with Emma and Henry! That is bad form!
When it comes to Henry, Neal would lay down his life to save Henry so that his son wouldn’t have to grow up like he and Emma did. As Henry’s father, Neal has a vested interest in being the best father he can be to his son, because Henry and Emma are all Neal has. By contact, Hook’s sense of revenge and self-preservation is what enabled Greg and Tamara to carry out their plan of kidnapping Henry in the first place. Charming said so, and Hook admitted to it in 3×5, so CS fans can’t even deny it! True, Hook did make some real character growth in turning around his ship in 2×22 to help Emma and her family save Henry. BUT Hook doesn’t have any personal investment in Henry, and only cares about the boy insofar as helping Henry wins him favor in Emma’s view. I doubt Hook would’ve cared much about the boy’s fate had it not been for Emma, and Hook seems to be using Henry as a tactic to his advantage. Hook told Neal in 3×10 that he was stepping back from his pursuit of Emma “for the sake of the boy.” Yet, in the next sentence, Hook basically said he was hanging back to allow Neal to fail in winning back Emma, thereby giving Henry what Hook considers to be false hope of his parents reuniting. In reality, I doubt Hook gives a second thought about what is in the best interests of the boy. He just recognizes that Emma would never leave Henry, as Milha would’ve left Baelfire, so Hook is trying new tactics to get into Emma’s good graces.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantAnd to contrast with the way they’ve written Hook as a potential father figure, they’ve written Neal as a father figure who was there for his son in any way possible from the moment he discovered that Henry existed, and in doing so, broke the Stiltskin cycle of father/son abandonment. Which one of those characterisations, Neal’s or Hook’s, sounds like a character they’re setting up as being a positive father figure for a child?
I think the answer to that question is the key to the series. You’re right in saying that Neal has given Henry the best gift imaginable: Neal has broken the nasty cycle of abandonment and given his son hope for the future going forward that his family can be in tact.
That’s one of the reasons I don’t see how CS could be endgame, because for any of Adam and Eddy’s faults, I like to think that they wouldn’t saddle Henry with the negative option as an official step-dad. It would honestly baffle me if that’s the choice they made.
Precisely. Now all that remains is for Emma to acknowledge the kind of honorable man and good father and son that Neal is. I think she already has in 3×9 when she noticed that Neal was stepping up to the plate for Henry and also making peace with his dad. Neal even inspired Emma to smile and to then turn and hug her own parents. Neal brings out the best in his son and in Emma. He has her back in saving their son, whom he has pledged never to leave again. I believe that Emma will eventually see the light in the difference between Neal and Hook. It’s a matter of time.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantAnd this is why, if there is some sort of CS development in this ep, I won’t be totally flipping out or declaring that our ship has sunk. It’s also why I won’t be overly disappointed if there isn’t some major SF progression. Even if there was, it’d only be a first step, and we all know that however it plays out for them, it’s gonna be a long journey. Emma’s got a dream of what her happy ending could be, but she’s not ready to believe in it and reach out and grab it just yet.
Let the pieces fall where they may. I’m not worried by CS anymore, just baffled. I get the appeal of Hook on one level since he’s the smoldering, handsome bad boy in need of saving, but on another, I don’t see him as honorable or desirable. He’s the type I can see Emma snogging while on a holiday but not the type of guy she would really want to bring home to meet the parents or to be a step-father to Henry. Sure, he’s fun to look at, but husband material? I think not. I just can’t see Hook really sticking around for the long haul, since he just made a drunken pass at another woman. And this is the man who would settle down in suburbia as a good husband and step-father, content to live near Neal, who will always be part of Henry’s life. Let’s just say I have my doubts.
Hook is like an over-possessive boyfriend after one kiss and he isn’t even Emma’s boyfriend. He’s jealous, petty, and brooding and immature about Neal and Emma being around each other, because on some deep level, I think Hook is convicted. As Neal’s quasi step-dad, I think deep down Hook knows how wrong it is for him to pursue Emma, the love of Neal’s life. His statement that he’ll back off of Emma “for the sake of the boy” could be a manipulative tactic since he thinks Emma would really never chose Neal. Or it could have been a moment of Hook actually trying to do the right thing, but the next thing he knew, his pirate persona got the better of him and he ended up making a drunken pass at the pretty little fairy, only for her to flat out refuse him. And being who he is, a pirate with a reputation as a ladies’ man, Hook couldn’t resist letting Emma assume the worst that he and Tinker Bell just had a quickie in the bathroom in an attempt to arouse Emma’s jealousy (which I don’t think was successful since eww!) What woman would fall for that? What could be going through Hook’s mind? “Emma, I love you, but I’m free of you, so I’ll just make you want me more by soliciting sex from another woman?” Yeah, that’s a winning tactic of showing a woman you’re in it for the long haul. *sarcasm* That might work on “The Bachelor,” but it’s not the making of a fairytale love story.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantEmma is a grown woman old enough to make her own decisions, but I’m afraid she might be a bit blind where Hook is concerned. She has hardly scratched the surface with him, and he has held back A LOT of his past life from her. It’s almost like Hook has intentionally kept it a secret from Emma that he seduced Baelfire’s mom, a married woman, right from under Rumplestiltskin’s nose. He then challenged a crippled husband to an unfair duel, which would’ve left Baelfire fatherless. While it was Milha who chose to abandon her husband and child, Hook was more than happy to get a woman who wanted his life on the open seas that he probably didn’t hesitate for a moment about leaving behind little Baelfire.
How Emma could knowingly choose such a man as a potential step-fathe figure for Henry boggles the mind. Single mothers need to be extra careful about the men the date, since they also need to consider the type of step-father they’d make. Hook has a really bad track record with being a step-father figure since he abandoned Neal, not once, but twice: first by leaving Bae behind with Rumple and again by letting Bae be captured by Lost Boys. Now Hook potentially could stab his son-figure in the back by going back on his word not to pursue Emma. This does not bode well for Emma or Henry. Not at all. If Hook still can’t do right by his son figure Neal, then there’s little chance he’s going to make a good father figure to Henry.
My main question is why Neal or Rumple haven’t told Emma the full truth of just what she might be getting herself into. As Henry’s father, Neal ought to be more concerned about who Emma dates, not just because he’s in love with her, but because any man Emma brings home could potentially one day be a step-father to Henry. What makes this situation even weirder is that this man also happens to be Neal’s quasi step-dad. Emma needs to be properly warned before she heads down that path. If Emma chooses to anyway at least she’d be fully informed. Yet, I still would have to wonder at her judgement, since then she’d really have turned a blind eye to the warning signs. That is why I’m almost hoping Emma gets a fake persona, since if she does end up dating Hook, then at least she can say “I was cursed!’ about the situation the way Mary Margaret did about her fling with Dr. Whale.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantHappy Birthday!
I would love to see some pro-SF moments too, even if they’re not exactly romantic. Yet I still can’t help but expect some major CS moments, too. Since Emma said she doesn’t think she’s ready to date Neal, I wish she would just remain single rather than rush into another relationship. While I realize that may be asking too much, I just wish that Emma could remain unattached, since she herself said right now all she can think about is being there for Henry. With the arrival of the new curse though, I fear Emma may be cursed with fake memories which means she’ll end up dating Hook. If so, then at least the only circumstance in which Emma dates Hook would be while Emma is literally not in her right mind.
I’d rather see Emma stick to her guns of only choosing Henry rather than being caught in this limbo between two men or for her to transfer some of her feelings for Neal onto Hook, who really reminds her of Neal. Emma has enough going on not to confuse her feelings or be torn in two directions right now. Still, I suppose I can see the appeal that a handsome outsider might offer to a reluctant savior who still feels abandoned at times by the people who really love her -namely her parents and Neal, who let her go to break the curse. Yet, I don’t think either Hook or Emma would be entering a relationship from a place of strength and I think it would end badly. Hook would basically be drowning out his conscience about throwing his “good friend” Neal under the bus by pursuing Emma, despite having said he’d back off. Emma would be taking the easy way out with Neal diving headlong into another relationship. I suppose I can understand why Emma would perhaps even revel in feeling desired by the “reformed” bad boy pirate, because it can be overwhelming to be wanted. Yet, I just don’t see it boding well for Emma. Much like a concerned parent Snow or Charming, I wish she’s spare herself that extra heartache of getting into a relationship with the wrong man, but life is full of choices and consequences.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantI think this new cruse will cause people to have false memories about what might have been but not what actually was. That could be why Regina’s father could be there since what would it be like if she’d never enacted the dark curse? Her father would still be alive. What if Emma hadn’t given up Henry? She would have raised him herself, which could be why we see the doctor again, since perhaps this time, we see what would have happened if Emma had held him. She would have ended up keeping him. What would have happened if Hook had kept Baelfire on his ship; would Bae have convinced Hook not to pursue revenge against Rumple? Would Hook and Neal have become friends instead of rivals? What if Rumple hadn’t turned Belle out of his dark castle? Would she have broken his dark one spell and convinced him to find an alternative way I find Bae other than the dark curse? And if Rumple had not created the dark curse in the first place would Regina and Snow have been friends instead if enemies? Would Snow and Charming have raised Emma in the EF?
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantAll Emma wants, I think deep down inside, is her happy ending. She wants her family and her home and her life. I think Emma really wants that fairy tale ending, but things keep getting in the way, so she keeps running. As long as you run, then you never have to stop and take the happy ending, which is what Snow ultimately decides to do.
Yes! Back when Emma was a teenager, all she wanted was a home. Her dream was settling down in Tallahassee with Neal, getting a job and setting up a home together. When he broke her heart, Emma still didn’t let go of that dream and even spent two years in Tallahassee, probably hoping that Neal would meet her there. Deep down that longing to belong to family hasn’t left her. She was just scared of it when Henry showed up on her doorstep. She didn’t know how to be a mother or what to do. Yet, somehow Henry got through to her and she ended up fighting for him. The next thing she knew, she had broken the sleeping curse, and, by consequence, the dark curse. Suddenly, she wasn’t just a mother, but also a daughter who had a heritage, a family history, and a place where she belonged. She found herself back in her country of birth, saw where she came from, and fought to get back to her son. Then the next big twist is that her fairytale land identity actually led her back to Neal, the man she never stopped loving! She is scared that it’s too good to be true, that she’ll lose him again, because she did in 2×21. As he was falling through the portal, Emma’s walls came crumbling down and she revealed her heart’s desire: that she loves him and needs him! When has Emma even owned up to needing anyone? Never, except for Neal! She was devastated when she thought he’d died and felt robbed by destiny of the opportunity of having lost him the first time, realizing he never stopped loving her either, and then angry that she’d just lost him a second time. Yet, when she found out he could still be alive, she was afraid to accept it, to open herself up to all that pain of possibly losing him again, because it was easier just to shut down and not deal with it again. While her parents recognize that Emma was heartbroken when their daughter lost Neal, they’re trying to instill hope into Emma that she could have her happy moments with Neal if only she’d allow herself. Yet, Emma thinks that as the savior she’s somehow forever going to be fated not to have happy ending of her own, because bad things keep happening. Fate may have brought her and Neal together, but it also kept them apart because she had a destiny to fulfill. Now Emma is using that as an excuse to hide behind because she’s terrified that she be a victim once more to a cruel fate of having Neal ripped form her once more. She believes the price of her magic a the savior means not getting to have Neal, because that is what her own experience has taught her. She thinks her parents are wrong on this one, yet they know better. Snowing knows from their own experience that being apart means fighting that much harder to find a way to be together. Emma has to learn this lesson for herself, I believe, and stop letting her fears get in the way of her belief in her love for Neal for her to finally get her chance at happily ever after.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
ParticipantSadly, there are many people who let hatred rule their minds. It’s like what PP said in 3×1, “It’s easier to get people to hate something than to believe in it.” (paraphrase) And this applies to some very small-minded people who confuse fiction with reality. People have sent Ginny Goodwin hate via Twitter because they hate Snow White. It’s a “blame the victim” mentality or “praise the villain” mentality, only these simpletons are blurring the lines of fiction and reality. They actually seem to think the actors are somehow the same as the imaginary characters they watch on TV. It’s quite sad actually and decreases my hope in humanity.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
Participant"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez
Participant"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
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