ONCE - Once Upon a Time podcast

Reviews, theories, and talk about ABC's Once Upon a Time TV show

Slurpeez

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  • November 22, 2013 at 1:38 pm in reply to: Who is filming now? (SEASON 3) Part 2 #225781
    Slurpeez
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    [adrotate group="5"]

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 10:45 am in reply to: Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire #225747
    Slurpeez
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    Like I said, I completely agree that Hook is not a hero and is actually being written as getting worse with every episode (307 really sold that) but the double standard of “Neal’s continued mea culpa to Emma” and “Hook is a hero who does all good things!” is rather taxing.

    No doubt it’s taxing, but that is all part of design. While Adam and Eddy always planned for Baelfire to be Henry’s father and Emma’s great love, I think they also planned to introduce a love triangle to keep Emma and Neal separated. They just didn’t know exactly who would be Emma’s second suitor. Adam and Eddy first had to acquire the rights to Peter Pan before S2 to determine how that story would play out and who would be the contender against Bae for Emma’s heart. I think ever since 2×6, we saw a parallel between Hook and Neal, and Jennifer Morrison said via Twitter than Hook reminds Emma of Neal. Hook was introduced as a “gentleman pirate” who lives by his own code, but who seduced another man’s wife thereby taking away Bae’s mom. Now that same drunken one-handed pirate is trying to come between his son figure, the boy he wronged, and the woman whom Neal loves, which is what you’d actually expect a pirate to do! That is Hook’s dilemma: he wants to have good form but struggles to have good substance because it’s hard to change from being selfish for 300 years to be unselfish in a matter of days. Yet, I think Hook’s true redemption will come when he realizes his pursuit of Emma is hurting the boy he seemed to care for (why else keep Bae’s sword all those years?).

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 10:06 am in reply to: Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire #225745
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I think the nerves we are feeling has a lot to do with how Hook is being presented this season, like this radical departure from what he was supposed to be: a villain. And with all his crimes being swept under the rug episode after episode and still managing to get a kiss and have “heart to hearts” with Emma….well it makes me nervous, except when I break down his actions and it becomes clear that Hook isn’t exactly on the level.

    I get that a lot of CS fans are singing Hook’s praises, but if anything, I think  the writers have subtly been painting him as a man who wants honor but doesn’t quite know how to get it. He goes on a mission to save Henry, not because he cares about the boy’s welfare, but because he wants to win Emma. He tries to “bond” with Emma over Neal’s death and Emma’s loss of hope to win her approval. He saves Charming only to garner a kiss out of Emma. Contrast this with Neal who loves his boy and would do anything to save him, even sacrifice his own life. Neal’s reaction to Emma choosing her son was to affirm her decision and then to fight along side her to save their son. Neal told Rumple to offer Charming an elixir, free of charge, because it’s the “right thing to do” rather than to get a favor from Emma like Hook did the kiss. Who, may I ask, is the real man of honor here? It certainly isn’t Hook, who despite claiming Neal to be a “good friend” of his, still knowingly goes after the woman whom Neal loves and rubs it in his face. After centuries, Hook really hasn’t learned anything about doing the honorable thing since he seduced another man’s wife and in so doing helped destroy a little boy’s family. Centuries later and Hook is still intent on doing the selfish thing by trying to come between Neal and his desire to form a new family with Emma and Henry . I’d say the writers are showing Hook in a bad light, and that CS fans have huge blinders on.

    Slurpeez108 wrote: While this would be a sad development indeed, I hope you all aren’t giving up hope just when Adam was telling us SF fans to keep hope alive.

    No white flag, I promise. But to be fair…Adam tells EVERY ship to have hope. HookedQueen, WoodenSwan. All of them have gotten the “hope!” tweet.

    I realize that Adam tells everyone to have hope, and that at a certain point, it can become false hope for the likes of WoodenSwan since August is now a little boy. BUT those ships were never “canon” on the show. Telling SF fans to have hope has real, actual bearing because Emma and Neal love each other. To quote Henry, “in the book, things always look worse right before there’s good news.”

    Like I said, it’s the sweeping of Hook’s crimes, that only happened a week ago, under the rug while reinforcing Neal’s selfless actions (but the negativity of them) over and over. Emma’s thinking that Neal didn’t love her all those years, Emma wishing he were dead so that she wouldn’t have to face her feelings. Emma has yet to address the : Hook leaving her in jail, Hook torturing Archie, Hook shooting Belle, Hook working with the people who kidnapped her son, and Hook leaving them all to die. And I’m starting to wonder if the show will EVER address them because they are on this whole “Hook the hero” thing.

    I know Hook’s past crimes so far haven’t been dealt with directly, but I’m not buying this “Hook the hero” thing for one second. As I wrote above, I think Hook hasn’t really been shown to be a “man of honor” this season. I actually think the writers have subtly been showing why he’s lacking honor (e.g. expecting a sexual favor from Emma for getting Charming the water versus Neal telling his dad to help out Charming without expecting any favors because it’s the right thing to do). Also, as far as Emma’s feelings for Neal go, she’s affirmed twice since being in Neverland that she never stopped loving him, that she does, and that she probably always will. Sure, she has deeply rooted abandonment issues and resentment towards both her parents and Neal at present, but that is to be expected at this stage and it’s totally in keeping with her character since it takes her a long time to work through things. All throughout season 1, Emma was the skeptic who kept everyone, including Henry, at arms’ length. She never wanted to let anyone who could hurt her, and she told August she didn’t want anyone to need her. She even tried to skip town so she wouldn’t have to face her role as the savior, and she probably would’ve had it not been for Henry taking measures into his own hands by eating the apple turnover. As he said,” You’re just scared. This happens to all heroes. It’s just the low moment before you fight back.” Emma’s tendency had always been to look out for herself so as not to get hurt. Emma has HUGE abandonment issues and is scared of emotional vulnerability. Yet, when Henry nearly died from an apple turnover she believed in the curse and embraced her role as a mother, and hence, as a savior.

    Emma may be overcoming her emotional limits to fight for Henry, but she still has the tendency to run from things that scare her. If and when Emma decides to pursue things with Hook, I think it would be taking the easy way out so as not to face her own issues. Somehow it’s almost easier for Emma to overlook the sins of people who aren’t emotionally close to her (e.g. Regina, Rumple, and Hook), than it is to emotionally forgive the people who love her yet have abandoned her (even if that reason was to let her go to be the savior). As the saying goes, “the ones closest to us hurt us the most.” Emma still has a long way to go before embracing her role as a daughter and as Neal’s true love since even though they love her deeply, they hurt her. Yet, this show is about mending relationships and overcoming fractured family ties. I have every faith that once Emma stops running, she realize that things with Hook aren’t right. She’ll realize that she’s “taking the easy way out” by dating Hook, and she’ll eventually start to work through her abandonment issues with both her parents and Neal. That is why I believe Hook is just another wall to hide behind, but she’ll eventually realize that and then come to see the true love her parents and Neal have to offer her.

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 9:25 am in reply to: Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire #225735
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    If they’re really going to address the situation with Neal leaving and Emma ending up  in jail, and not rewrite it, then that’s good.  If they rewrite so it was “Neal sent her to jail” or “He could have stayed but was a coward and afraid for himself”–which previously they said on twitter was not the case….well, then its going to tell me they’ve flipped completely for CS.   That’s a huge sort of retcon, and it wouldn’t be the first one of the show.

    I really am failing to see where all of this fear for Neal as a character is coming from. Maybe the popularity of CS on social media gets some people down, I understand, but it’s not as if Adam and Eddy are suddenly going to completely tarnish Neal’s moral fibers just to elevate CS. As you say, that would be horrible writing and untrue to he spirit of Neal. Just because he hasn’t been spotted filming outdoors for a week doesn’t mean he’s going to be denigrated. I really don’t even think that CS are even a legit couple by 3×12. We know there is a new curse arriving in SB, whose effects we still don’t know. For all we know, Emma is cursed to have bad taste in plaid pants and pirates. She might not be in her right mind. Also, we know that Emma, Hook and Henry have been spotted in NYC at a police department. What draw do those characters have to NYC? I think they’re on a mission involving Neal. 

    The scenes of Regina with baby Henry seem like they’re going to forget originally there was supposed to be a hole in her heart from the curse and that she didn’t have real maternal warmth, so much as pride and control over someone, the way Cora was with her.  I don’t know, but I guess I’m going to feel nervous about how they tackle things in this new “villain as heroes” era.

    We haven’t even seen 3×9 yet, so it’s hard to say with any degree of certainty at this stage how Regina is going to handle being a first-time mother. Maybe Regina realizes that motherhood isn’t all she thought it would be since she looks pretty flustered in those promo pics. We might get some cute moments of Regina trying to figure out how to diaper a baby boy or trying to sooth his cries. Regina has always cared for Henry, changed every diaper and soothed every fever. Her ability to care for her son materially has never been called into question, but I  don’t think Regina will be sugar-coated as “Mother of the Year”  in 3×9. If anything, I think this upcoming episode might underscore how Regina wanted to fill the hole in her heart by adoption but discovers that despite her best intent, not even having a baby is enough to fill the void in her life.

    I have some hope that they started off this season with Neal using magic, and saying he loves Emma, doesn’t own her, then telling her she doesn’t have to apologize ever.  Then they had him say he’ll fight for her.  It felt like they were tackling all the troll-standard claims of why SF would be bad and for each one sort of saying, nope.

    That is exactly why I don’t see the writers doing an about face on Neal’s character. He’s been showing a lot of upward momentum in S3, so unless he gets cursed with a false identity as Belle did in “Lacey” I don’t see Neal suddenly becoming a piggish brute of a man. Even if Neal were to be cursed with a fake identity, it wouldn’t really be Neal; it’d just be MRJ playing another person other than Neal so any bad traits couldn’t really be pinned on Neal as a character.

    Yet this is a BIG one, the heart of a lot of the controversy, right next to his relationship with Tamara.    Did he use Emma for selfish reasons?  It’s always been a matter of interpretation, and heated debate.  So if they really go back and revisit, they could swing it whatever suits their current needs in the story.   Everything that happened this season was written months ago, so as fan feedback came in, perhaps they made adjustments, because they did heavily float CS this season.

    Again, I’m not sure why you’re fearing the worst here, given everything positive that we’ve heard from Adam via Twitter. Just because some CS fans are loud and obnoxious? If anything, I’m thinking Adam and Eddy are going to show that Neal did NOT leave Emma for completely selfish reasons, but rather, for selfless ones. I think they might revisit the night that Emma went to jail to show that August was the one who called the cops and perhaps to show that bad things really might have befallen Emma had Neal NOT left her.

    If this happens then yes, it would mean that they have made a huge retcon for certain fanbases. They keep saying, “we’re telling the story we want to tell.” and to go back on tweets or things they’ve said in the past and rewrite their story…I would be more disappointed in them not sticking to their guns than what was happening on screen.

    While this would be a sad development indeed, I hope you all aren’t giving up hope just when Adam was telling us SF fans to keep hope alive. I highly doubt that Neal is about to be rewritten in an unfavorable light just to placate some whiny fans. That would go against the ethos of the show which so far has been showing a theme of second chances and redemption, so to permanently mar a hero would be an absolute anathema to me and is not what they’re doing to Neal.

     

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 2:36 am in reply to: Emma + Baelfire = Swanfire #225703
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    Why so glum, chums? I really think that Adam and Eddy aren’t going to mar Neal’s character. If anything, I’m thinking they’re going to continue to show Neal in positive light. Also, these ought to put the wind back in your sails a bit!

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 2:32 am in reply to: Hidden Symbols #225702
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    Two chalices in the same room in scenes that involve Robin coincidence? I think not.

    So is Robin Hood affiliated with the chalice? Perhaps he, like Lancelot, was once a knight of the round table.

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 2:15 am in reply to: Adam Answers Twitter Q’s! #225701
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 1:44 am in reply to: Who is filming now? (SEASON 3) Part 2 #225699
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I want to know “on set” where – Vancouver or Steveston?

    I really want to know what’s going on! Maybe it’s part of the new curse. That would explain Emma’s horrible pants.

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 1:34 am in reply to: Will's Heart #225697
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I was wondering why Will was unaffected by the psychedelic perfume! It makes so much sense now to learn he never put his heart back in his chest. I highly doubt Ana would’ve taken Will’s heart. Despite everything, she still loves him, as evidenced by using he fairy dust to undo Jafar’s stoning curse on Will. If anyone took Will’s heart, I’m betting it was Cora. We might even see Cora in a flashback, since I believe it’s been hinted that Barbara Hershey might make an appearance on the spin-off . Also, I think that Will might’ve left his heart in WL with Lizard for safekeeping. If Lizard holds his heart, then perhaps Will can start to look at her with eyes of love if she puts it back into his chest.

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

    November 22, 2013 at 1:27 am in reply to: Alice's New Family #225694
    Slurpeez
    Participant

    I like the idea about Alice’s mother being someone magical. From the sounds of it, Edwin, Alice’s dad, truly loved Alice’s mother, not her step-mom. I couldn’t stand her but Millie is adorable.

    "That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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