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@Phee wrote:

@slurpeez108 wrote:

@EvilQueen wrote:

Makes me wonder he knows fully well that Bae is Neal and Henry’s father or at least that Emma knows him.
But he cannot know Bae’s life because he didn’t know where he was, Cora had to help him with the globe.
Perhaps it has something to do with the blind witch, telling him some bits and pieces? I still don’t believe he stole that skill from her and he can see the future. I think of Rumple as immensely clever and cunning man but, who can logically deduct and suspect what can happen but cannot see the future itself, even the slightest glimpse of it – he just must’ve remembered what the seer told him. (he had to ask Snow about Emma’s name)

I agree that perhaps the seer could’ve prophesied something about his son and the savior. Would be very interesting to see that flashback!

Yes, I’m starting to suspect that the prophesy may well have involved their connection, (which would mean that Rumple is already aware of being Henry’s grandfather). I’ve also never thought that Rumple could really see the future. The introduction of this Seer who wants to give up her powers made me start to wonder if maybe he did actually take her powers for himself. But I’d prefer it if he didn’t actually posses that skill, and instead his “foresight” is just based on what the Seer tells him.

It could be that the seer prophesied that a savior would eventually lead him back to his son without Rumple being aware of how. That way, Mr. Gold will still be surprised to learn Henry is his grandson. I really want to see a look of awe and wonder on his face when he discovers this new revelation. 😀

Looks like Emma could talk to Neal, demanding to know the truth about his identity! What could lead Emma to doubt he is Baelfire? Because she is shocked to see Neal where she expected to find Mr. Gold’s son.

[Slurpeez]

@KalliopeKisees wrote:

I belive that we find out Rumple is Regina’s Father and that King George is her true enemy. I beleive Cora was destined to marry King George as part of her Miller’s Daughter background.

@KalliopeKisees wrote:

or that George is both her father and enemy.

That’s an interesting theory, too. I don’t think Henry Sr. is Regina’s biological father either, which is why I wondered if Rumple were unknowingly Regina’s father. Also, I have long wondered if Cora, the miller’s daughter, was betrothed to King George at one point, whether they were even married and had a child together, Regina. However, I’d be really surprised if King George were Regina’s true enemy, because she was his ally against Snow White and Prince Charming in their quest to “take back the kingdom” in episode 2×10 The Cricket Game. Also, in 1×21, Apple Red as Blood, King George and Queen Regina addressed each other on a first name basis, and Regina offered King George gold in exchange for his prisoner, Prince Charming, promising a fate even worse than death for him when she put Snow White under the sleeping curse. In SB, Mayor Mills made King George’s counterpart the district attorney, which is a position of power and influence. King George would be really crafty to be Regina’s betrayer and enemy after all she’s done for him, but then again, so is Rumple very cunning to have used her like he did. You never know. 🙂

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Barbara: “Who is Regina’s enemy, fundamentally, once and for all? And that is the point of the whole thing. Who is Regina’s REAL enemy? Who is it that killed Regina’s happiness?”
Other chick: “Well it was her mother.”
Barbara: “But in CORA’S point of view?……Think about the whooooooooooole thing, at the beginning of the series, and you’ll see what they’re going for.”

@Phee wrote:

It’s just that she was making it sound like it’ll be some big new revelation that’ll make us look at things differently. Rumple screwing over Regina her whole life isn’t exactly a new revelation, I mean, DUH! 😆 Was about to say that maybe Regina didn’t realise the full extent of the manipulation, but then I remembered how I’d assumed that she’d figured out that Jefferson, Viktor and Rumple all conspired against her and set her up, (which is why she made sure that Viktor was cursed, and it explains her extra special disdain for Jefferson), so that wouldn’t really fit as a big twist for me either, if it’s Regina discovering what a pawn she’d been in Rumple’s game.

I beg to differ on this one. Granted, Regina has been catching on ever since S1 that Mr. Gold had some major secrets up his sleeve. Yet, I think it will still come as a major shock to Regina just how much Rumple has made her life a living misery. There are a lot of reasons I believe Regina could be blindsided by Rumplestiltskin’s expert manipulation over her life. Who is Regina’s real enemy? It’s not Snow White. It’s not even Cora. It’s Rumplestiltskin.

My mind keeps returning to the prophesy that Rumplestiltskin gave Snow White and Prince Charming about how the savior would return and the final battle would begin. That was at the very beginning of the show in the very first episode. Well, from Cora’s perspective, Rumplestiltskin stole Regina away from her, the miller’s daughter, even after she tried so hard to secure Regina’s freedom as a baby from Rumple’s control. Yet, Rumple orchestrated events such that he still managed to trick Regina into banishing her own mother to Wonderland and then to practice dark magic. Something tells me Cora’s “peace offering” is just a deploy in her greater quest to get revenge on Rumple by controlling him after he sought to control her and Regina. Despite how controlling and evil Cora is, one might argue that from her perspective, everything she did was done out of love to prevent Regina from becoming Rumple’s pawn to enact the dark curse. In Cora’s viewpoint, Rumple betrayed her and Regina, and there is going to be a final battle, no doubt in my mind.

Regarding Rumple, I don’t think Regina has yet fully realized how much she was his pawn in practicing dark magic or by enacting the dark curse. I think Regina has yet to fully realize the truth of the events that took place in The Doctor 2×5 or that Rumplestiltskin set up Dr. Whale being unable to bring Daniel back to life, otherwise she’d have stopped falling for Mr. Gold’s contuning manipulations of events. She never would have trusted Mr. Gold to help frame Mary Margaret for the murder of Kathryn Nolan in episodes 1×14 through 1×18, when it turned out he was secretly helping Emma and MM. After that, Regina especially never would have asked Mr. Gold for help in getting rid of Emma Swan without killing her in 1×21, even when he refused to help her. Then again in 2×9, The Queen of Hearts, Regina never have even dreamed of helping him close off the portal from FTL, even if it meant her mother’s return. A woman who is fully informed how horribly Rumple set her up to be miserable would never trust that man again. If Regina knew fully what Rumple had done to her, Regina would be more inclined to have listened to her mother, which is what we’re seeing now play out in SB upon Cora’s return.

With regards to her poor relationship with Jefferson, we don’t know what happened between the events of 1×17 and 2×5 that made Jefferson give up his realm-jumping ways or to cause a rift between him and Regina. In 1×21, Regina and Jefferson had a conversation that struck me as odd, since the events of 2×5 make it clear they both knew who Daniel was. Jefferson acts like he’s forgotten how important Daniel was to Regina when she shows him her magic ring, and Regina doesn’t hold it against Jefferson for being uninformed. IMO, Regina doesn’t know Jefferson was in on a ploy with Rumple to make it seem like Victor couldn’t bring back her deceased fiancé.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=io1o1IOxx7o

Regina: It needs to absorb the magic that’s here. I have some things left. A few trinkets.
(She takes a box from one of the side walls, and dumps its contents into the hat. Once again, nothing happens.)
Jefferson: It’s not enough. You need something that still works.
(Regina pulls out Daniel’s ring and holds it up. Produced by magic, Daniel’s face can be seen in the middle of it.)
Jefferson: Who’s that?
Regina: Someone long gone.
Jefferson: Well, whatever or whoever it is, it still has magical properties. Give me that, and let me see what I can do with it.

With Regards to Regina’s cursing Dr. Whale, I think she brought him over, not as punishment for tricking her the first time, but for the same reason she brought over Daniel’s preserved body to SB. She wanted to see if Dr. Whale could try again one day to bring back Daniel from the dead.

Also, I recall a few conversations from S1 that make it sound like Regina is still in the dark about Rumple’s true motives. In 1×2, The Thing You Love Most, it sounded like Regina really didn’t understand why Mr. Gold would want the dark curse to be broken by the savior or that he’d somehow procured Henry to intentionally bring Emma to SB:

Regina: I’m not in the business of making deals with you anymore.
Mr. Gold: To which deal are you referring?
Regina: You know what deal.
Mr. Gold: Oh, right. Yeah. The boy I procured for you. Henry. Did I ever tell you what a lovely name that was? However did you pick it?
Regina: Did you want her to come to town? You wanted all this to happen, didn’t you? Your finding Henry wasn’t an accident, was it?
Mr. Gold: Whatever do you mean?
Regina: Where did you get him? Do you know something?
Mr. Gold: I have no idea what you’re implying.
Regina: I think you do. Who is this woman, his mother, this…Emma Swan?
Mr. Gold: I would say you think you know exactly who she is. I really must be going.
Regina: Tell me what you know about her.
Mr. Gold: I’m not going to answer you, dear. So I suggest you excuse me. Please.

In 1×8, Desperate Souls, Regina was baffled that Mr. Gold would dare challenge her by backing Emma as a candidate for town sheriff or that he’d hold it over her that technically, Regina has no real legal claim over Henry, since Mr. Gold illegally trafficked him as a baby:

Mr. Gold: Regina. Shall I move some things? Make a bit of space for your rage?
Regina: You found that loophole in the town charter.
Mr. Gold: Legal documents – contracts, if you like. Always been a fascination of mine.
Regina: Yes, you love to trifle with technicalities.
Mr. Gold: I like small weapons, you see. The needle, the pen, the fine point of a deal. Subtlety – not your style, I know.
Regina: You’re a bastard.
Mr. Gold: I think your grief’s getting the better of you, Regina. Shame what happened to Graham.
Regina: Don’t you talk about him. You know nothing.
Mr. Gold: What is there to know? He died.
Regina: Are you really going up against me?
Mr. Gold: Not directly. We are, after all, both invested in the common good. We’re just picking different sides.
Regina: Well, I think you picked a really slow horse this time. It’s not like you to back a loser.
Mr. Gold: She hasn’t lost yet.
Regina: She will.
Mr. Gold: Never underestimate someone who’s acting for their child.
Regina: He’s not her child. Not legally.
Mr. Gold: Oh, now who’s trifling with technicalities?

In 1×17 Hat Trick, Regina said she made a deal with Mr. Gold because she approved of his getting results. At this point, Regina thought that she was seeking his help to keep Mary Margaret and David Nolan apart. Little did she realize that Mr. Gold was simply playing Regina the entire time in order to help push Emma along in the direction of believing Henry that Regina was batty-crazy evil and had it in for poor Mary Margaret.

(Regina arrives at the station. Inside, she is surprised to find Mary Margaret sitting in her cell reading the newspaper.)
MM: Madam Mayor.
Regina: Good morning. (Mr. Gold appears.)
Mr. Gold: Excuse me, but my client is not having any visitors.
Regina: Of course not.
Mr. Gold: I’ll see you out. (Mr. Gold and Regina go out into the hall.)
Regina: What is she doing here?
Mr. Gold: She came back.
Regina: You said this was going to work. That she’d take the key, that she’d go.
Mr. Gold: And she did. But, it seems that Miss Swan is rather more resourceful than we thought. Fear not, Your Majesty. Miss Blanchard is still guilty of murder. You may yet get what you want.
Regina: Oh, I better. The only reason I made a deal with you, Gold, is because I wanted results.
Mr. Gold: And results you shall have. See you at the arraignment.

Again, when MM was cleared of murder in 1×19 The Return, there is a very telling scene between Regina and Mr. Gold. She is incredulous and demands to know why Mr. Gold would betray her like that, since she still believes, after everything that the two of them have been partners since the beginning. This is not a woman who knows how Rumple manipluated her. She is stunned to discover Mr. Gold was actually helping Snow White and Emma.

(Regina and Mr. Gold are in Mr. Gold’s Pawn Shop.)
Regina: You broke our deal.
Mr. Gold: I broke one deal in my life, dear. And it certainly wasn’t this one.
Regina: Kathryn was supposed to die, and Mary Margaret was to get the blame.
Mr. Gold: Yeah, murder seems so much worse here, though, doesn’t it? You can’t just turn someone into a snail and then step on them, can you? You didn’t say ‘kill her’. We agreed that something tragic should happen to her. Now, abduction is tragic.
Regina: The intent was perfectly clear.
Mr. Gold: Oh, let’s not talk about intent. Intent is meaningless.
Regina: Intent is everything.
Mr. Gold: Please.
Regina: This is going to raise all kinds of questions about where she was and how the test results were fake.
Mr. Gold: Oh, yes. And, um… And who put the key in her cell.
Regina: It’s all going to lead to me, isn’t it? You bastard. This doesn’t make any sense. You and I – we’ve been in this, together, from the start.
Mr. Gold: Oh, have we?
Regina: You created the curse for me. The curse that brought us here, and built all this.
Mr. Gold: Yes, it’s about time you said thank you.
Regina: Why did you do it?
Mr. Gold: Well, you’re a smart woman, Your Majesty. Figure it out.

This is a woman who knows nothing about Mr. Gold having broken his deal with his son, Baelfire, or why he designed the curse. She still believes that Mr. Gold designed the curse for her and her revenge on the Charmings. She still has yet to figure it out Mr. Gold’s true motive, and at this stage, that he wants the curse broken.

In 1×21, An Apple Red as Blood, even after Regina was starting to catch on to Mr. Gold being responsible for bringing Henry to SB and wanting Emma to break the curse, Regina was still desperate enough to plead for another deal to get rid of Emma without killing her. Regina. still was willing to believe Mr. Gold’s lie that the way to break the curse was for Regina to kill Emma. In truth, however, I think Mr. Gold manipulated Regina into using the sleeping curse, because he wanted Emma alive to believe in magic, kiss Henry, and break the curse. Regina wouldn’t have pleaded for another deal with Mr. Gold if she knew what he’d really done to her.

Mr. Gold: Your Majesty. To what do I owe the pleasure?
Regina: My tree is dying. Why?
Mr. Gold: Perhaps, it’s your fertilizer.
Regina: You think this is funny? Well, I’ll tell you what I think. I think it’s a sign of the curse weakening because of Emma. But do you care? No. You’re content to just sit back and do… Whatever it is you’re doing, while all my hard work burns.
Mr. Gold: That’s not all, is it? Come on. You might as well get everything off your chest.
Regina: I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Mr. Gold: Henry. Miss Swan wants him.
Regina: She’ll have that boy over my dead body.
Mr. Gold: The curse was meant to take away Snow White and Prince Charming’s happiness. Perhaps, you giving up Henry is just the price to keep the curse unbroken.
Regina: I think I’d rather just get rid of her.
Mr. Gold: Well, well. You’re going to have to be quite creative. We both know the repercussions in killing Miss Swan. The curse will be…
Regina: The curse will be broken. That’s because you designed it that way. Undo it.
Mr. Gold: You know… Even if I wanted to, I couldn’t. Magic… Well… Is in short supply around here and dwindling by the minute.
Regina: You want the curse broken. Why?
Mr. Gold: That’s not something I care to discuss.
Regina: Don’t bother. You can shove your reasons. I want to strike a new deal. One where I can get rid of Emma without shattering the curse.
Mr. Gold: Unfortunately for you, a negotiation requires two interested parties, and I’m already planning a trip.
Regina: I’ll give you anything.
Mr. Gold: You no longer have anything I want, dearie. But I will give you a piece of advice, free of charge. I’d plan a trip of your own. Because, once people waken up and remember who you are and what you did to them… They are going to be looking for blood.

Despite questioning Rumple’s motives for wanting the curse broken, she’s never even stopped to consider how much he orchestrated her entire family’s sad history just so he could be reunited with his son, Baelfire. I bet Regina doesn’t even know Mr. Gold has a son! When Regina does hear this from Cora, who seems to know everything about Rumple, including the history with his son, about the full design of the dark curse, and about his dagger, I think Regina is going to want revenge against him, too. It’s even more twisted if she discovers from Cora that Rumple could be her bio-dad (though I don’t think Rumple has any notion of this being true. He’d never knowingly harm his own child). Not only was Rumple indirectly responsible for Regina’s misery, but he added to that misery.

It was only by the finale, 1×22 A Land Without Magic, that Regina realized Rumple had done everything to help the Charmings, her sworn enemies, find true love, that he’d bottled their true love to bring magic to SB, that he’d planned for their daughter to become the savior or for her to adopt their grandson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6TwgHJZ1S9E

(Emma and Regina enter Mr. Gold’s Pawn Shop.)
Mr. Gold: Do my eyes deceive me, or is that the look of a believer?
Emma: We need your help.
Mr. Gold: Indeed, you do. It seems quite the tragic ailment has befallen our young friend. I told you, magic comes with a price.
Regina: Henry shouldn’t have to pay it.
Mr. Gold: No, you should, but alas, we are where we are.
Emma: Can you help us?
Mr. Gold: Of course. True love, Miss Swan… The only magic powerful enough to transcend realms and break any curse. Luckily for you, I happen to have bottled some.
Regina: You did?
Mr. Gold: Oh, yes. From strands of your parents’ hair, I made the most powerful potion in all the realm. So powerful, that when I created the dark curse, I placed a single drop on the parchment. Just a little safety valve.
Emma: That’s why I’m the saviour. That’s why I can break the curse.
Mr. Gold: Now you’re getting it.
Emma: I don’t care about breaking the curse. All I care about is saving Henry.
Mr. Gold: Which is why it’s your lucky day. I didn’t use all the potion. I saved some… For a rainy day.
Emma: Well, it’s storming like a bitch. Where is it?
Mr. Gold: Where it is isn’t the problem. Getting it is what should worry you.
Regina: Enough riddles. What do we do?
Mr. Gold: You do nothing. It has to be Miss Swan.
Regina: He’s my son. It should be me.
Mr. Gold: All due respect, but it’s her son. And it has to be her. She’s the product of the magic. She must be the one to find it.
Emma: I can do it.
Regina: Don’t trust him.
Emma: What choice do we have?
Mr. Gold: That’s right, dearie. What choice do you have?
Emma: Where is this magic?
Mr. Gold: Tell me, Your Majesty, is our friend still in the basement?
Regina:Oh, you twisted little imp. You hid it with her?
Mr. Gold: Oh, no, no. Not with her. In her. I knew you couldn’t resist bringing her over.
Emma: Who is ‘her’?
Mr. Gold: Someone you should be prepared for. Where you’re going, you’re going to need this.
(He opens a long box on the counter, revealing a sword and a scabbard.)
Emma: What is that?
Mr. Gold: Your father’s sword.

Regina’s reactions to all this new information is rather revealing, “Oh, you twisted little imp.” She had no clue as to why Mr. Gold would care so much about her arch-enemies, the Charmings. Regina was in the dark when Mr. Gold told her there was no harm in his “please clause” since he’d never remember who he was in this new land without magic, and she continued to be in the dark during S1. She only really pieced it all together by the S1 finale. Yet, to this day, she still has no idea exactly why Rumple wanted the curse broken, where he was planning his trip once the curse was broken, why he’d want magic back, or who Henry’s dad would be. (I doubt Mr. Gold knew Baelfire is Henry’s dad either, but then again, Mr. Gold may’ve known something based on the seer giving a prophesy, which could potentially be about the savior leading Rumple back to Baelfire one day).

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

@EvilQueen wrote:

Makes me wonder he knows fully well that Bae is Neal and Henry’s father or at least that Emma knows him.
But he cannot know Bae’s life because he didn’t know where he was, Cora had to help him with the globe.
Perhaps it has something to do with the blind witch, telling him some bits and pieces? I still don’t believe he stole that skill from her and he can see the future. I think of Rumple as immensely clever and cunning man but, who can logically deduct and suspect what can happen but cannot see the future itself, even the slightest glimpse of it – he just must’ve remembered what the seer told him. (he had to ask Snow about Emma’s name)

I agree that perhaps the seer could’ve prophesied something about his son and the savior. Would be very interesting to see that flashback!

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

@Phee wrote:

I’ve been waiting for that reunion for forever! Bring it on!

Me too! Here’s another adorable tweet from Tony, who plays Geppetto:

Since Jakob Davies is on set, we’re likely going to get more flashbacks of young Pinocchio (possibly in our world after he left Baby Emma). 😀

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

@Kellyn1604 wrote:

@RumplesGirl wrote:

@Kellyn1604 wrote:

If Cora gets her hand on some magic beans and then kidnaps Henry with Regina…we could have quite the chase across worlds.

It could be like in Hook where Emma and Neal travel to other worlds in an epic quest to regain their son.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

@EvilQueen wrote:

Funny that, Regina will probably have doubts – in the end, just like her mother, “he made her the person she is now”. However, I can see Rumple wouldn’t have a slightest hesitation if he was to kill her.

Probably, because he already tried an failed with the wraith. 😉

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

“We will find out who Emma was chasing in the promo within the first few minutes of the episode.”

😀 An entire episode dedicated to Baelfire (aka NEAL) Emma, Mr. Gold, and Henry! 🙂

Here’s a link to the full audio: http://www.blogtalkradio.com/barbara-barnett/2013/02/12/once-upon-a-time-special-tiny

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

This is most interesting. How does Mr. Gold know that Emma can convince his son to talk to him? Was it foreseen?

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

[Slurpeez]

Even though Regina and Rumple rarely see eye to eye, I doubt she’d want him dead. Also, I agree that Cora wants to control Rumple rather than kill him. She likely knows that whoever kills Rumple with his dagger becomes the dark one. Of course, if Hook used his sword to kill Rumple outside of SB, then Hook could avoid becoming the dark one and the curse would die with Rumple.

"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy

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