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– Emma’s actions in Nimue were extremely heroic and she did it by herself. Hook was nowhere to be found. So although much of the arc was her boyfriend trying to calm her down, not listen to Rumple in her head etc. etc., the most challenging test for Emma as a hero came when Hook was not around. She fought it herself.
“I am not nothing. I was never nothing. The power you have, I don’t need.”
Yes, but that was before Hook got sliced with Excalibur and before she chose to defy his wish and turn him into another dark one. Like I wrote, Emma still has her strong heroine moments, but they’re undermined by her relationship with Hook. She gave into fear rather than honored his wishes to let him go. He would rather have given his life than be turned into something he abhorred. Emma wasn’t thinking of Hook’s welfare or of the consequences of unleashing another dark one on her family and indeed the world. She was only thinking of her fear of abandonment. Emma betrayed Hook in the worst possible way (in his estimation); that is what S5a was all about and why “love as weapon” was the theme.
If you can watch that and tell me that isn’t her showing how powerful and heroic she is, then we will never find a common ground. For me, it was at that point in season 5a that the writers realized Emma was too strong of a character to just let the darkness take over. So they wrote Hook into it.
But Emma did fully let the darkness consume her the moment she tethered Hook to Excalibur. For most S5a, Emma was struggling to keep the darkness at bay with the help of her family and friends. However, Emma choosing to tether Hook to Excalibur is what made her fully embrace the darkness and turned her from the semi-dark one into the full Dark Swan. Real love honors the beloved; it doesn’t betray him. What she did to Hook was incredibly selfish and ignoble; Emma betrayed Hook in the worst possible way because of her fear. She was afraid of being left alone again. That fateful and selfish decision to tether him against his wishes is why she visibly went from wearing white to wearing all black.
That is why I argue that whatever Emma and Hook share, it is destructive to both of them. She wasn’t motivated by strength but by fear. It’s selfishness on her part to try and turn Hook into the thing he hates the most. Real love isn’t selfish.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
In 4B it was Hook, and in S5A it was…yeah, still Hook. (This, by the way, goes back to our previous discussion on strong females).
Yes. In response, I’m going to quote from an essay which I linked back to on the previous page:
A strong female character is one who is defined by her own characteristics, history and personality, and not solely by the actions or needs of other characters. She is a person in the story, not a prop. That is the best definition I can come up with. Note that my definition did not involve martial arts.
Post-S2 Emma does still have her “strong heroine” moments (e.g. saving herself in S3 finale, learning to love herself in S4, and saving Regina in S4b), but S5 saw her story take a backseat and become quite passive. Emma learning to receive help from others is part of her journey, but S5a was her chance to shine. In a half season that was supposed to be all about her and her ability to overcome the lure of darkness, the story actually became all about her destructive romance with Hook and how her love for him actually caused her to give into the darkness (which, until his death, she’d actually been able to resist with the help of others).
The only bad female character, if you ask me (and you did), is one who’s flat. One who isn’t realistic. One who has no agency of her own, who only exists to define other characters (usually men). Write each woman you write as if she has her own life story, her own motivations, her own fears and strengths, and even if she’s only in the story for one page, she will be a real person, and THAT is what we need. Not a phalanx of women who can karate-chop your head off, but REAL women, who are people, with all the complexity and strong and not-strong that goes with it.
In my estimation, Emma has become flat, because she is constantly recycled every half season. It seems that every half-season finale she has a moment of inner strength and self-recognition (e.g. the exceptions of Emma saving herself in S3 finale, her learning to love herself in S4a, and Emma saving Regina from the darkness in S4b) but then gets reset to zero by the start of the next season.
Emma largely took a backseat in S5a that was supposed to be all about the Dark Swan and her development as she grappled with the darkness and found a way to overcome it herself. Instead, she gave into it because of “love being a weapon” rather than a strength for Emma in her relationship with Hook.
The measure of whether a relationship is good for the heroine is whether it helps her or hinders her on her journey, and if you ask me, Emma giving into the darkness by selfishly clinging to Hook reveals that it drastically crippled her. Instead of defeating the darkness, aided by the love and support of her family and friends, Emma gave into her insecurity to keep Hook alive, despite his wishes not to be made into a dark one. Emma giving into her weaknesses because of her insecurity of being abandoned is the opposite of the “love is strength” mantra that Emma lived by in S2.
Not only was Emma passive, but she wasn’t heroic in S5a. Where was Emma’s realization to hold onto goodness? Emma defying Hook’s wish to let him go meant Emma condemned herself and Hook to a fate worse than death (becoming dark ones). As a direct consequence, Hook’s unhealthy obsession with revenge became destructive and hurt Emma and those she loves. So Emma was partially to blame for unleashing another dark one on the world, instead of defeating the darkness once and for all when she had the chance. Strong heroine she is not.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Without going too much into the problematic elements of Emma’s current characterization (being mostly in agreement with everything @RumplesGirl and @Nevermore have already written), I’ll repost my thoughts here and here from a different S4 thread as they relate to female characters more generally and how being in a relationship can either hinder or help heroines’ quests.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I suppose I’m fascinated with this particular aspect of OUAT’s fandom culture because it almost looks like OUAT’s creators produced this Frankenstein’s creature, that, like in the book, they’re now unable to control and are terrified of (and maybe for good reason). And I guess I’m curious about the different social processes that have made this possible. Hearing you folks discuss it, I think a good chunk of the responsibility for this lies on the shoulders of the OUAT crew, and perhaps even ABC, in that it almost looks like they fed it, or at least didn’t set a tone of cordiality and respectfulness, but enabled something really unpleasant to emerge.
The odd thing though is that the fandom wasn’t at all like this in S1. Sure, there may have been the oddball troll here and there, but for the most part, being part of the fandom was a very enjoyable experience. Then the division really happened in season two, which incidentally is when Hook was introduced (I count Neal as technically being part of season one, since he appeared as Baelfire). The tension in S2 really mounted until it came to a head after S2 ended, when the love triangle was being promoted. Before Neal died, there was a lot of online harassament going on, mostly direct against Neal fans, though of course there was some in the other direction, too.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I have a feeling about it as well, maybe all the things we complained about their relationship is actually intentional. There are a lot of signs that suggest that Hook might not be Emma’s True Love like:
It seems you and I are on the same wavelength. I have been posting for years in this thread why I think Hook and Emma’s relationship is deliberately being written as the opposite of true love. That is why Emma’s stated plan to split her heart the way her parents share a heart is doomed to failure (or so I keep telling myself). It would explain so much like why Hook’s cursed lips actually robbed Emma of her special TL magic (what I called the anti-TL kiss) or why his kiss failed to free Emma of being the dark one (even before she turned him into a dark one). So, by Occam’s razor, the reason TLK has never worked for Hook and Emma is because they don’t have true love.
Now I know that the current trajectory doesn’t seem to support this hypothesis (given Emma’s crazy descent into literal Hell to resurrect Hook), but it does seem that this hair-brained scheme to split her heart might not work (for reasons that @thedarkonedearie wrote). I would be more than content if the show ended with Henry being Emma’s only True Love (other than Neal). At least….that is how I hope the show ends.*
Where the show could actually wind up, however, is probably nowhere good. The thing that makes me really cringe is that Emma is currently wearing Hook’s ring as a necklace, which he snatched off of a guy he murdered. (*twitch*) It seems to be a substitute for Emma’s swan necklace (you know, the one born out of true love, which symbolized Emma herself). But hey, at least she gets to wear a memento from a serial killer. Isn’t that romantic?
I really want Hook and Emma to not be together anymore, but even if it’s true, it wouldn’t matter because:
a. Emma and Hook are not the only flaw this series has.
b. The ending isn’t worth much if the journey is tainted.
THIS
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
But I think beyond this, there’s another issue with CS, and that’s the structural mismatch that I think maybe progressively led to where we are now. It’s a combination of who Emma is as a character, who Hook is as a character, and who they are to each other that makes it just a train wreck, in my opinion.
Despite everything, I’m still very open to the possibility that the writers are deliberately writing Hook as Emma’s Mr. Wrong. Everything about S5a just screamed how terrible they were for one another and how they brought out each others’ worst traits (e.g. Emma’s selfishness and insecurity and Hook’s vengence and controlling nature).
Emma and Hook betrayed one another’s trust in the worst possible ways. Emma delibratley denied Hook his dying wish to let him go. She knowingly turned him into the thing he hated most: a dark one. Despite his plea not to put the darkness in him, she condemned him to a fate worse than death (from Hook’s perspective). I don’t condone anything he did to Emma, but she betrayed his trust in the worst possible way.
In some sick and twisted act of revenge, Hook tore down and preyed upon Emma’s known vulnerability of having grown up alone and called her an orphan. Not only has Hook known that is Emma’s biggest insecurity since day one (recall the talk they had on the beanstalk in Tallahassee about him sensing her having the same look in her eyes as the lost boys), Hook then tried to take away Emma’s family from her — after she spent her whole life looking for them! Take that in: Hook tried to rob Emma of her family after Emma turned him into the dark one. Hook is the near destroyer of Emma’s happy ending — her home, her family.
And this pattern of revenge is nothing new between Emma and Hook. It was going on before he ever became the dark one, which is why he doesn’t get a pass in my book for mistreating her. He has been doing this to Emma ever since Tallahassee when Emma left him atop the beanstalk. Hook then left Emma and Snow without provisions to die in that magic jail cell, despite Emma’s pleas to relase her so she could return home to Henry. I just don’t know how the writers could make it anymore clear that Hook is so wrong for Emma and she for him, on so many levels.
By contrast, Neal gave up his own happy ending to get Emma home to her parents, and again to make sure Henry didn’t grow up alone without Emma. Neal then paid the ultimate price with his life to ensure Emma learned who the Wicked Witch was so she could save the town and Henry.
Now, Emma is headed to the Underworld with her family (without a concern for Henry’s safety), determined to get Hook back via heart-splitting (desspite it making no sense) after he tried to MURDER them all. Emma could care less about her son’s wellbeing or Henry’s desire to see his dad again. It’s all about KillyBear, “giving into love” nonsense, yadda, yadda, and handwavy excuses for Hook’s terrible behavior. Tell me again how Emma isn’t OOC and how she isn’t podEmma. All I can say is that this heart-splitting scheme had better not work. (even though I’m bracing myself for it). *HEADDESK!*
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Yes. And this is what we mean when we talk about how Emma isn’t a strong woman anymore. It’s not saying that having a boyfriend means losing your “strong woman” characteristic. It’s that your entire being and story center around him. That without him you cannot be more than what you already are–and of course, what you are is fragile, lonely, and wounded in some way.
OUAT in a nutshell:
This gif made me laugh/cry. This past half season was supposed to be about Emma and her struggle to overcome the darkness — not Hook’s! Moreover, Merlin, arguably the only really good guy (other than Charming) who happened to be black, got murdered by the 18th-century white guy. Yep. Way to be forward-thinking and representative.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
So the idea that a desire for upward mobility always = overreaching and a sign of evil is kind of problematic.
I agree it is problematic now, especially since S3b. The show could’ve gone in an amazing direction after S3a but didn’t. So what I’m writing about now pertains to the the first few seasons, specifically about Mulan, Emma and Neal. All three managed to overcome hurdles thanks to their own efforts in a way which doesn’t brand them as villains. Their tough start in life could’ve prevented them from overcoming their limits, but it didn’t. I really liked Emma’s pep talk to Cinderella in S1:
Emma Swan: People are gonna tell you who you are your whole life. You just gotta punch back and say, “No, this is who I am”. You want people to look at you differently? Make them! You want to change things, you’re gonna have to go out there and change them yourself, because there are no fairy godmothers in this world.
Emma Swan is an interesting case study, because despite being the daughter of a monarch, she grew up as an orphan in a foster-care system. In S1, she was a former jailbird-turned-bail-bondswoman who manged to make something of herself, despite her rough background. While being a bail-bondswoman may not seem like a position of power, it is still a huge step up from her days of being a car thief.
In S2, Neal Cassidy, too, seems to have overcome his tough lot and turned over a new leaf from his previous life of crime (even though we still don’t know what his profession was, much to our chagrin). I really wish we knew more about he ended up with an apartment in Manhattan. Emma and Neal were living in our world, despite being born in the Enchanted Forest, so they had the advantage of not being restrained by class/gender to the same degree. Emma and Neal’s ability to overcome their theiving days were testament to their own individual efforts while living in our world (which was part of what made their story of reuniting so darn compelling).
Despite not having grown up with a fairy godmother or a silver spoon in their mouths as did Snow White, Emma and Neal still managed to hold onto goodness and find something worth fighting for (i.e. their son). How I miss that version of Emma and Neal!
While we sadly don’t know as much about Mulan, we do know she is perhaps the only character (male or female) from her feudal society to make something of herself based on her merits while living in that world. Sure, she may be considered a “glorified bodyguard” by some, but she still seems to represent the warrior spirit who refused to be typecast merely based on her gender — no small achievement in a land that doesn’t really have many opportunities for women to make something of themselves based on their own achievements.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Well said. We can’t dismiss the bad things Hook did, but we can’t dismiss him making the right decision and fighting it in the end.
While I don’t dismiss Hook’s eleventh-hour about-face, I also think he should stay dead. His death is a direct consequence of his bad acts committed as the dark one (brought on my Emma’s selfisness). Even Hook wanted to die; Emma should just honor his dying wish to let him go. GRR Martin’s words, “a good act does not wash out the bad, nor a bad act the good” apply here. Just because Hook had a last-minute change of heart, it doesn’t mean he suddenly deserves a medal of honor. No, he attempted to kill Emma’s family. Even more, by his own admission, Hook has killed at least a dozen people, including letting Nimue act through him to kill Merlin in some twisted, centirues-long quest for vengence. He should still pay for his past crimes. That is what justice (or karma) means. Consequently, I also don’t think anyone who’s committed cold-blodded murder on this show “deserves” a happy ending — no matter how many good deeds they’ve since done. Therefore, I think Rumple and Regina should stay behind in the Underworld with Hook and let some of their truly deserving victims go free (e.g. Henry Sr. but not Cora). [* ducks for cover and hides *]
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Hook did cause what he eventually fixed, whereas Rumple was just doing it for his family. Although I will say if you buy Hook not really being in control, than you could put the blame on Emma for turning him into the DO. But really, the comparison was both dark ones sacrificing themselves to save everyone. It was a loose comparison.
I don’t buy Hook not being in control any more than I do Rumple not being in control. Even an addict can find the willpower to stop abusing a substance. Like others have said, if Rumple or Emma don’t get a pass for bad things they did as dark ones than neither does Hook. I also don’t think that a good deed omits one’s guilt of a bad deed. One may later turn over a new leaf and strive to do good works, but that doesn’t somehow negate the vileness of past wrongs or abuses. Future good deeds don’t undo the pain suffered by the victims of a crime.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
