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They did? Seriously?
They did! They flat out said the S3 finale was “epic wish fulfillment” — so something doesn’t add up.
THR: Lastly, how would you describe the final two hours of the season?
Horowitz: Wish fulfillment.
Kitsis: Epic wish fulfillment.I thought this was a thing that fans came up. I’m so confused. Whose wish, what was its fulfillment, and what, for the love of everything that is holy, was epic about it? Is this a direct reference to CS? Seriously, this confuses me.
While it wasn’t a direct reference to CS, what else could it be? It’s not as though many fans were wishing for a time-travel episode, but many vocal CS fans were wishing to see Emma dressed as a princess, dancing with Hook in the Enchanted Forest. And that is exactly what they got.
[adrotate group="5"]"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
A and E don’t like criticism. They don’t like being confronted with the knowledge that there are swaths of people who are genuinely unhappy and, more to the point, disturbed by their show. And people who don’t claim these things are “true fans” and A and E respond to them instead of any thoughtful but also respectful conversation. And by contrast the people who are disturb and want to have these kind of frank conversations are haters, bitter, judgmental, and need to either stop watching or just go with the ride.
True enough. As I was digging around old interviews, I found this doosey:
Interesting. Since it’s been such a long hiatus, are you looking online to see what all the fan theories are about her, and what’s to come?
Eddy Kitsis: I stay away, because it tends to not do the greatest things for my psyche. It’s hard to write a [story] with everyone commenting all the time. What happens is there are so many contradictory thoughts, that it ends up just making me cry. And so my wife has pulled me from the internet.No crying!
EK: At the end of the day, you hear certain things, you write this for the fans, but at the end of the day, you have to have a vision and stick to it, and if it fails and people hate it, you have to deal with it.
Well, there’s also literally no way to make every single fan happy.
EK: Zero. Impossible. [It’s] too fast, too slow, not enough, too much. So for us, it’s like, let’s do what we like, and as long as we’re happy at the end of the day, you hope other people are. But at least you don’t look back and say, “I only did this because Chewbacca20 said he hated this!”
So, they obviously dread fans’ criticism. On the one hand, they claim they write for fans. But which ones? They claim that they’re staying true to a vision. But, whose? They try to please certain fans, as the S3 finale showed (just not the ones who disagreed with it). They are very aware of fans’ reactions. As Adam has also said:
HOROWITZ: It’s hard to say that, because it’s funny – for us, it’s like you’re trying to write a book and you’re commented on [by viewers] every chapter.
He also said in another interview: “We are in the age of Twitter, we do see the pitchforks.”
That is why I just don’t buy the idea that the writers don’t understand how problematic certain things like Regina raping Graham was. My own opinion is that Adam’s not fessing up to what Regina did to Graham during the council meetings doesn’t mean he’s unaware of how appalling it was to fans; it just means he doesn’t want to get nailed for it. His dodging of qualms is a problem unto itself, but his and Eddy’s use of doublespeak means they get to play both sides. They know how to talk like politicians and play the tensions to their show’s advantage. They know, as do the cable news outlets, that drama and polarization are what keep the masses engaged (even if counterproductively).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I don’t exclude the possibility that this tension is deliberate, but whether it is or not, I think if we take a reception studies approach, and look at how the audience is divided, then you just have to assume that’s what the show does, pragmatically. It’s peddling 2 mutually exclusive messages at the same time.
I tend to think this dichotomy is deliberate, or at the very least, the byproduct of the writers hitting a reset button. As Eddy and Adam said about S3b in a telling interview:
ASSIGNMENT X: You’d already done one huge reset at the end of Season 1, with everyone getting their memories back. What made you feel like you wanted to do another reset so soon?
ADAM HOROWITZ: It’s hard to answer that in a lot of ways without you seeing the second half [of Season 3], but for us, I think that there was a certain sense of, we wanted to kind of end one chapter and start another.
EDWARD KITSIS: Yeah, we wanted to keep the show moving forward and the challenge is to make the show feel like the same show, but different and exciting in a new way, and that’s what we’re endeavoring to do.
HOROWITZ: And we had an idea that we loved for the second half, and we just went for it. To us, usually, the scary decisions are the ones that either you’re going to fall flat on your face or you’re going to hit a home run. Like we ended the curse Season 1, and people were like, “What the hell?” So …
KITSIS: And one of our goals was, we knew the first half of the season was going to be primarily set in Neverland, and we wanted to do a second half of the season that was radically different.
HOROWITZ: Really like two different seasons.
KITSIS: Right. And so when you see what we have in store for the second half, the vibe, the feel, the storytelling and the tone is very different. Same characters, same show and all that, but we’re attacking it from a completely different direction.
Straight from the horses’ mouths. Same characters, same show, but different direction starting in S3b after the reset button was hit. The problem is that the old paradigm keeps cropping up, and the writers actually keep calling back to it, especially in certain episodes like Dreamcather.
Though they thought they were taking the show in a great new direction by appealing to the CS fan-base (what they called “epic wish fulfillment”), they also knew hitting the s3 reset button was a major risk. As Adam said:
Horowitz: To us, usually, the scary decisions are the ones that either you’re going to fall flat on your face or you’re going to hit a home run. Like we ended the curse Season 1, and people were like, “What the hell?”
I think the writers are also aware of the issues with their characterization and plots. They just don’t want to call a spade a spade, because they like to play both sides. That is why Regina and Zelena usually call Hook a myriad of derisive nicknames while the CS fan-base get lots of seemingly sugarcoated things, but yet which have a darker side like the pink flowers of doom signaling betrayal. The writers know what a divisive character Hook can be, and they play up that villain angle a lot like making Hook the dark one and giving him the fake cursed-hand one-episode plot. Yet, they also try to have their cake and eat it too, which is why it’s so gross that Emma would risk herself and her family for a man who so hurt her and her family (both before and after becoming the dark one).
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
double post
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
We already know Michael Raymond-James has been hanging out on set and likely filming scenes for the second half of the season, so it’s likely the Storybrooke gang will encounter Neal in the Underworld. Don’t you think Rumple will do everything in his power (which, given that he’s the Dark One again, is quite extensive) to bring his son back? Certainly Neal is the most deserving at another chance at life in this world, given that he was robbed of real character development, much to the audience’s chagrin. I don’t know about you, but I’d take Neal back over Captain Guyliner any day. Maybe then, things could start getting back to normal around Storybrooke — but I won’t hold my breath.
THIS"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
double post
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
This is the Swanfire safe-haven of the thread, which was started back at the end of S2. For the whole summer and first half of S3a there was a lot of hope, joy, and love for Neal/Emma and the show as a whole going on here. Some of us even kept hope until the end of S3b, knowing there would be time-traveling. It seemed like there were narrative hints that Neal might come back in the S3 finale. Yet, then the S3 finale happened (something Adam and Eddy called “epic wish fulfillment“), and most of us ceased believing in Adam’s #HOPE shtick. The terrible thing that happened in 3×15 meant that many fans of Neal became disenchanted with the show as a whole. A lot of us remain because of the forum friendships formed during the disappointment of that loss. This being a safe-space means we rant about a show that used to bring us joy but no longer does. Many people remain in the forum, and even enjoy commiserating together. So, people may seem negative here, but most people contain their frustration to this particular thread. People are free to ignore the thread.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
I wish! Sands of Avalon ayone? When Arthur used it on Gwen, my mind went there, but it’s unlikely.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Slurpeez wrote:Even though Snow White and Charming have been sidelined, they’re still essential to A&E’s vision of what Happily Ever After looks like for Emma and Henry.
Well exactly. Those two started it all. They should have a big hand in how the show finishes.
Agreed. If Josh and Ginny decided not to renew their contracts, I think A&E would be hard-pressed to end the show. I hear that Ginny is expecting her second child, which does leave a question in my mind as to whether she’d continue to work full time with two small children at home. I could see her stepping down as a series regular while Josh continues to work full time. She might just become a reappearing guest star or something (or else have fewer scenes like she did in S3b).
Maybe in the pre-rebooted show. I don’t know..I think A and E would spin it so that Emma’s HEA is now just Henry/Hook and since she made peace with her parents, she can take over as the rightful queen of Charming’s kingdom and carry on their legacy as part of her HEA.
*twitch*
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
Right, I guess what I meant was, they aren’t going to continue the show without Ginny, Josh, Robert and Emilie. That’s just not going to happen. And with LOST, they announced at the start of season 6, that it would it’s last, and as a result the ratings spiked a little. I expect ABC will do the same for OUAT.
While I could see the show continuing without Robert Carlyle, I couldn’t see it going on without Josh or Ginny. (For example, Rumple might just remain in the Underworld at the end of the season while Belle’s happy ending is becoming a new mom and raising Rumple’s child). Even though Snow White and Charming have been sidelined, they’re still essential to A&E’s vision of what Happily Ever After looks like for Emma and Henry. I don’t think the show would go on without them.
"That’s how you know you’ve really got a home. When you leave it, there’s this feeling that you can’t shake. You just miss it." Neal Cassidy
