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Thats a Whole different way of seing it and I guess if you set your mind on this being the only possible way for a story on time travel to be told, then, yes Z’s actions would be useless, because she would just be creating a different Little Z and not changing her own past. But Again that is not what happens in my version of it.
I’ll reply to the rest tomorrow- long wonderful day, I have to be up early for more horsing & I have to read before going to bed (Im too ocd not to read lol :p ) & it’s almost 10pm already!
But that theory I pointed out, is the ‘actual’ working scientific understanding of timelines/parallel realities/AR- it isnt actually fan made mumbo jumbo 😉 I was using it to point out just having a reality pop into existence or having someone simply cease to exist wasnt really going to work logically & since time travel is based in SciFi & not fantasy, it needs to based in science to ‘work/function’ plausibly IMO, other wise it’s not really time travel, it’s more a convenient plot device to flop out when needed & borderline jumping the shark for a fantasy drama.
Who’d ever have thought we’d be having a serious time travel discussion about Once!?! LOL, it’s great in a weird, weird way 🙂
[adrotate group="5"]Honestly the saying should be changed to, “magic always comes with a price…when the writers feel like making someone pay it…”
YES! This (we could also add “& when it’s convenient”)- here have a cookie! 🙂
I don’t know if you guys have ever seen LOST, but what Grimm is suggesting reminds me a lot of S5 of LOST. In brief: (spoilers) the island was moving through time after it was dislodged in time and space (don’t ask). When it finally got back on track, those still on the island were stuck in the 1970s. The ones who had managed to leave the island the season before (in the finale called “There is no place like home” if you wanna get meta) finally managed to find the island again but had to correct the timeline, meaning everyone had to go back to their original timeline. To do this, they had to find a spot on the island where there was a lot of “stuff” was (electromagnetic, geothermal energy..go with it). By setting off an H-bomb, they were able to..literally..blow themselves back to the present day. But the point was that it had to happen in a specific place at a specific time. BUT even though they went back to the present day, whatever happened..HAPPENED. So it’s not like they were never in the past, they were there. There were even photos of them in the past, after they had come back to the present day. This is a very big concept in LOST and in ONCE..”whatever happened, happened.” So you might be able to go back to the past, but it’s what already happened. You cannot actually change the past because it happened. But it’s your present, which is why you don’t remember it. You, your present self, has no memory of this past time because it’s not the past for you, but your present. SO. What does that mean for Zelena and co? If we accept that ONCE is deeply indebted and entrenched in LOST, then how does this change the crack?
Oh, I missed this!
Yeah IMO, Lost sucked at their attempt at explaining time travel- just ‘go with it’ was kind of their motto LOL 😉
What Lost attempted was Consistent Casual Loop paradox- you always went back, so the timeline never ends up deviating anyway. The problem I have with this working on Once, is we clearly have interaction between Snowing & CS in the ‘past’ BTS spoilers, yet no proofs of it happening in the flashbacks at any stage that we’ve seen already- in fact everything actually dismisses it as a possibility. ie. why did Snowing never ‘recognize Hook & Emma from their SnowFalls adventure? Why would David have a problem with Killian/Hook & Emma being together when he was in NL, if he knew them to be all but together from meeting them in the past (I’m thinking SnowFalls events/adventure). Why did Snow not recognize Hook as someone who is ‘on their side’ when she & Emma where in FTL, if they’d already meet in the past. We have established back story that would be shattered & fragmented by Consistent Casual Loop & make a couple of peoples actions look very stupid :/
Which is why I’m thinking they have to go with grandfather paradox- Zelena tries to alter the future that is, by a one off (cant be repeated because of plot device #5876) trip back to mess with the series of events that leads to ‘X’ happening, this could destroy our main characters lives, so Emma has to go back as well to stop Zelena from succeeding in her plans to alter the time line, which she does. This way we dont have to worry about meetings etc. because the 1st time around they never did meet, but when Emma returns- Snowing remember ‘meeting’ her in the past now etc.
Doesn’t this depend on how Zelena grows up? Regina had Daniel. If Zelena didn’t have that because she had magic and had Cora’s love and support and Rumple as a tutor, then there would be no need to marry Leo, meaning no interaction with Snow. So she would still have cast the Curse but only there is no Savior because no vendetta against Snow = no Snowing = No Emma.
Yes, agreed- but thats what I’m saying-
-Rumple NEEDED to have Snowings child be there to break the curse, so he could be free to go find Bae.
-No Snowing if Regina isnt forced to marry Leo, so No Emma or Henry & therefore no savior to break the curse & free Rumple (give him back his memories) to go find Bea- so no point in Rumple casting the curse in the 1st place, if it will only get him to a land without magic, but still prevent him from finding his son for all eternity, since he wont remember Bae.So Action X must be before anything to do with Regina. Like if Z’s father hadn’t left Cora.
Possibly… Hmm, i wonder- …. What if action X is nothing to do with Cora/Regina per say, but more timing, with Zelena wanting to circumnavigate the course of events that leads to Regina becoming a Queen/getting it all (in Zelena’s mind)- by ensuring that she, Zelena has Everything & more than Regina got, by being the one to save child snow?
What if she (Zelena) replaces Regina, with herself from that point on in the timeline? So Zelena gets the actual loving family & outs Regina (in her mind) from getting it all, along with ‘punishing’ Cora & Rumple for their future/past poor treatment of her. Or something along those lines.Then we still have all (aside from Henry) our characters within the story (no one is written out of history aside from Henry- hence Emma finding out what WW is going to try do, she freaks out & insists on heading Zelena off/ going to stop her somehow) however their roles in history have simply been altered/changed.
There is no AR – but the current timeline is changed so that:
1)Snow was never the step daughter of EQ,
2)Snowing may still have meet, so Emma is still born
3)But the curse doesn’t get cast etc. (unless Regina is made to cast it against Zelena, which I like, as this then means there is a chance Henry is still born, which mean they all exist, but under less than ‘ideal’ conditions, since it is Zelena now hell bent of destroying Regina & therefore harming Henry)
– as all this happens in/still is the same timeline we have going on now & therefore effects the characters we have now- both from past interactions which effect them now & from current day characters traveling back & experiencing things, which develops their stories, while they go through the process of righting the timeline again.Cora and Z’s father have True Love (let’s say). They have Zelena who is the produce of True Love and incredibly magical. Cora meets Rumple who wants her daughter. She agrees to let Zelena be raised as a pupil of Rumple because Cora is still ambitious. Because Cora never loved Rumple (because she had her True Love in Z’s father), she never removes her heart. Zelena is all she needs, she is enough. No more kids = no Regina. Zelena grows up away from Leo and Snow’s family. Eva never dies. Snow marries someone else because David is still just a farm boy. Snow and this other guy do not have True Love and therefore do not produce Emma. Rumple has no Savior to break his Curse but Zelena is still going to cast the Curse. Everything is changed if Zelena can get her father to stay with Cora
I agree everything will change, Yes. But my problem becomes, ‘how does that change or do anything for the characters development or plot playing out on our screens now?’
By adding a new reality, these changes mean nothing to our current characters as it doesn’t affect them (unless we never go back to how things have been played out to date, in which case, Emma, Henry & pretty much everyone is written out of the story). If we stick with the reality we have now as a result, then all the convoluted time travel/alterations mean, is our current characters remember nothing & nothing changes, but Z is now gone- that doesnt drive the plot forward, nor do we end up with any character development aside from a now missing Z (who’s living it up in another alternative reality, now devoid of Snowing/Emma/Henry etc).
So their (our main 8 cast characters) reality, has to be changed to make a time travel tale worth telling (which means we can only have the one timeline to work with), It cant be an alteration where Snowing never meet, as Emma will- what, fade from existence? Which seems a kind of a crappy story to tell on a show where she is the major focus lol 😉
What I’m saying is Emma cant go back in time & correct it if she never exists in the 1st place- cause always comes before effect ie. You cant eat an apple pie (the effect), Before making an apple pie 1st (someone causing it to be created)- so Emma cant go back to fix a timeline IF she never came to exist with-in it, in the 1st place 😉Oh, maybe we are thinking too far back- maybe something happens in SnowFalls time, that Zelena wants to take advantage of/change.
As I said before, I can not see Zelena doing anything unless it gives her, the person she is now, what she wants- It’s like saying that Regina would have been fine with Rumple simply killing Snow for her- that wasnt enough for Regina, she wanted to satisfy “herself”/’base needs’ & Zelena is no different- she wants Her own needs satisfied, not be without then, but knowing some other version of herself has what she herself wants IMO.Neat fanvids
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6Pr9ABXas8
This is very fun – Hot N Cold 😉
Now off to the beach with my pony to hopefully swim with the dolpins who are going to be here in about 5mins!
Not sure I will get through it all before I leave (Surf, sand & horse beckon)- before the weather packs it in, but will come back to whats left later on
TAKE ME WITH YOU??!????!??!
Haha, I’m hoping the water isnt to chilly- just heard there is dolpins on the way up the coast, so I will be leaving in 20mins If I want to meet them- hopefully I will get surf, sand, horse & swimming with dolphins all at once lol (will be the last time until next summer I think!) 😉
What we need is “Action X” Action X = the action that Zelena wants to undo. We’re assuming it’s Regina’s birth but things can still play out as they did even if Regina isn’t born (fate, destiny, whatever you wanna call it). So Action X has to be something that drastically alters EVERYTHING.
But how- Regina didnt love Rumple most- she loved her father, we dont know who or what Zelena’s father is, whats to say he’s a ‘good/lovable’ man? whats to say Cora keeps her heart? Zelena may not be as generous as Regina was in forgiving/loving her mother despite the abuse she endured? etc.
So well yes, I agree we need action X to know for sure what end game she is playing, many small changes can lead to entirely different event out comes- ie what if it’s Z who is forced to marry Leo, would Snow actually survive into adult hood to meet Charming- would Zelena ‘want’ to destroy Snow’s life, since it wasnt her TL that Cora kills? & then how do we explain the flash backs where we clearly see it all happening to Regina, not Zelena- which brings me back to what is the purpose of going down this particular rd story wise? As it does nothing to further character or plot development as it stands right now- since everything happened, but had nothing to do with the people we are involved with right now (in OR)?
Anna Paquin – a Canadian doing a not-so-great Southern accent? And why don’t they have Colin use his real accent??? An Irish Hook!!!
Umm- Anna is a Kiwi/New Zealander
Anna Paquin was born in Canada (Winnipeg, Manitoba) and lived there until she was 4. I’ve noticed that her Kiwi accent is very faint now, I guess she’s been living in the US for a number of years now.
Yes but she was/still is a NZ resident/citizen as far as I know (or can you be a dual citizen of both Canada & NZ at the same time? I thought that option was unique to just Aussie & NZ (down under) citizens) ie. She is a Canadian-born, New Zealand actress. Lol- we still hear her kiwi accent clear as day, esp when she’s working with Americans ;)- but I guess it’s because we are ‘used’ to hearing straight American or British accents in TV & film 99% of the time 😉
I too would be fine- more than fine actually 😉 with an ‘Irish’ Hook- I mean, it’d only make him that much sexier …. oh maybe that’s why they didnt- Emma has to be able to resist somehow lol 😉
Hypable Honors: The week’s best performances.
Show: ‘Once Upon a Time’
Actor: Colin O’Donoghue
In the first Hook centric episode since we saw him as a proper sailor in season 2, Colin O’Donoghue had us eating out of the palm of his hand, er… hook. Without a doubt, Captain Hook has had quite the transformation over the last 17 episodes, but watching him digest just how noble his new motivations are, and just how much he cares about Emma was far and away the best plotline we have had for him yet.
Not only is the character progressing through his feelings for Emma, he is slowly understanding that his most basic of motivations, pirating, has changed. Colin had some very heavy material to deliver this past week, and we couldn’t be more impressed as a fandom. From the bottom of our hearts: Thank you for helping make Captain Hook a daydream worthy man.http://www.hypable.com/2014/04/18/hypable-honors-the-weeks-best-performances-5/
