[surayya]

Stupid chat…. but it got me thinking…… How many of us really would watch a NL spin off IF they did one?

I’m gonna be honest- I detested PP as a kid & still not a fan now- I wouldn’t watch a NL spin off if I’m really honest. Pirates & PP are simply not my thing, I also wouldnt watch it based off of the fact I dont want to watch a show, in which the one character I already love to death, is dialed right back to the worst version of himself & can never, during the run of said spin off, ever be developed or grow past that point (characters that cant grow & develop get old fast, which usually = a quick death for a TV show… unless they have some wicked CGI or something to hold the audiences attention).

The whole ‘known’ cast members = automatic viewers, doesnt hold water either IMO- I dont watch new shows just cause someone I loved from another show is in it. I only watch if I actually like the idea of the show & only continue to watch if I enjoy the story from there (ie. I HATE super natural, so I watched only the Amanda Tapping scenes online & then only from 2-3eps of the total number of eps she was actually in , but she didnt change me watching the show itself, I didnt even tune in or record it, so it never counted towards ratings either- I still gave SN a mega miss- one of my fav actresses or not). I know there are many people who will give the show ago based on known actors/actresses-but it doesnt mean they will keep tuning in – Which brings me to my next point~

A couple of good actors whom had awesome roles & writing in another show, that has a somehow ‘magical formula,’ which works to draw you in & keep you there, doesn’t necessarily transfer across to another show-esp where the main characters are all at their worst, there is no romance/romantic tension (even between Tink & Hook, we already know Hook never loved Tink- due to his secret & it’s unlikely Tink loved Hook- she seems to be able to read people fairly well, nor Wendy & PP- I’m calling creepy on that one right now lol :p & Felix doesnt seem the loving type, being PP’s #1 groupie/victim & all) & doing things out of hate & bitterness (Tink included) can only be shown. These characters essentially cant ever be developed past where we meet them in Once- so Hook never learns to hope for a chance at love, he’s simply stuck as a pirate bent on revenge, which we’ll never see him get, an evil PP bent on murdering his grandson-Henry & destroying Rumple, again which we’ll never see happen, Tink, wingless & bitter- we never will get a pay off for her either, lost boys whom may want to return home, but we wont ever get a pay off for them either- that makes for a lame & depressing show IMO- but great if you wanna just sit down & hate on evil or pathetic characters, whom cant ever develop past their worst selves IMO- I just dont see the draw in it & that is speaking as a fan of both the main guys who would lead it :/

I really think a larger part of why WL hasnt worked (aside from the botch job they did with airing it), is it just doesnt have the magic OUaT has & I mean through character interactions & chemistry (pretty much all the characters on Once have major chemistry on screen, it makes their relationships, reactions & feelings sooooo believable, despite the often ridiculous situations 😉 )- they tried, but it just doesn’t have it, unless they could find that Once magic, no spin off will work IMO…

I mean the whole point of many of those whom are saying it’d be a good thing to have a NL spin off, can simply be reversed to a ‘Neal in NY spin off would be awesome’, as we’d get heaps of answers- we’d find out what he did before he met Emma, after he left her in prison, a bit of what they did while together, what August did growing up, what he did after the whole Emma/Neal/Prison thing & we could have a really cool story line with young Bae- what he did when he returned from NL, how he adjusted to modern day living (none of which we really get with SB residents, as modern living is normal what with them having 28yrs worth of modern day memories) etc- Hook, PP, Emma & Rumple could even do crossovers, which would draw in extra viewers!’… It’s a totally redundant argument IMO- I mean, they could do a Jack & the Beanstalk spin off too- we have Tiny, Charming, Rumple & King George or a 7 Dwarfs spin off … where does it stop???

I think many (other than CS) shippers, tend to forget that we LOVE CS, Emma & Hook, Because of this magical combination they seem to have hit on with OUaT as a show. Most dont just watch the show cause a hot guy’s wearing way to much leather & guyliner 😉 I know I watch for the journey of a tortured soul (who so happens to be Hook), meeting & falling for a broken soul (who happens to be the product of TL & Snowing’s daughter- Emma) & how these 2 come together & start to open their hearts to trust, hope & faith in love again, healing each other as it happens- that is magical to me. I love what they do for each other & I love how 2 people so broken in love & trust, can find it in themselves to put aside those old hurts & try again with another person- that’s why I tune in week after week.

Sorry for the ranty post- I’m just sick of the ‘they should do a NL spin off’ cop out talk. think it’s time I go & get engrossed in a good nature documentary (watched an awesome one on finding the dwarf manatee last night lol)- those are much safer lol 😉

[surayya]

 I think Adam has about had his fill of haterade

Lol- burned :p

Gotta say though, sometimes I really wished they wouldnt answer the negative nellies …. AT ALL. I know they like to clarify their position/s on certain issues sometimes, but honestly- the haters are gonna hate no matter what they say, so all answering them is doing, is giving them validation for their hate (ie. their arguments are valid (in their eyes), because the creators/writer/producer/cast answer/engage it).

I mean there are plenty of us who tweet them saying thanks & supporting them in what they are doing- I’d rather see thanks for them, or have a fan of the week Q&A type thing, than see them defending themselves to haters & upset fans on an almost daily bases.

On another Note- ONLY 1 MORE DAY OF JAN TO GO!!!!! March is getting closer people 😀

[surayya]

LOL SK, That was my 1st thought about the implications of those pics as well, then I remembered the list awoovo mentions, so now I’m going ‘Ok, we actually dont ‘know for sure’ anymore than we did’ – Darn the leak that shall not be named! & darn A&E for not just spilling the beans (but I guess on reflection, they’d be worried over reactions without context- so highly doubtful we get answers before the ‘event’ takes place).

 

[surayya]

Vanessa wrote: I read this on tumblr and thought I would post it here.

Captain Swanservation: The Echo Caves yaytessamae: So something struck me as I was rewatching Ariel (WHICH I WAS DOING FOR REASONS OK). Hook gives Emma his confession in the Echo Cave: “It’s what the kiss exposed. I never thought that I’d be capable of letting go of my first love, of my Milah. That is, until I met you.” And Emma absorbs this. Accepts it even. Then when it’s her turn to confess, homegirl literally goes and LETS GO OF HER FIRST LOVE. (*cough*You jump, I Jump, Jack*cough*)
Because no matter what the haters say, that is exactly what Emma did in that scene. By confessing that she loved Neal and probably always would, but had hoped he was dead, she is telling him she won’t go back. She can’t. That’s she’s moving on, much like he did with Tamara. She even reinforces this outside the caves, saying she wished she could change the way she felt, but she just can’t. She’s letting him as her first love go. After that, you notice the “love triangle” from her POV is officially dead. She is only ever platonic with Neal. She doesn’t go on the date with him. Their goodbye at the town line is familial at best. She is carefully neutral every time they talk, as to not encourage his romantic affections, because we all know Emma does not give false hope. Yet after the Echo Caves, she does go on to give hope to another certain someone. Someone who had been surprising her and supporting her and challenging her and making her smile and kissing her senseless and pouring his heart out to her. Someone who let go of his first love for her. Someone that I suspect helped her finally let go of her first love as well. I just can’t see this as coincidence. That both Emma and Hook had very significant first loves before they found each other. And that both of those first loves ended badly, altering them forever. They both took years to move on, building ridiculously high walls against love. But then they met each other, and immediately were able to ferret out the cracks in each other’s walls. To connect in a frighteningly intimate way quite quickly, because they were such kindred spirits emotionally. They recognized the rawest part of themselves mirrored in the other, saw that here was someone who got it when so many people don’t. And that’s why there’s no question in my mind that these two are destined. Because a connection like this is rare and precious. The show went through a lot of trouble to canonically establish it. Because it gives their love a strong root, a root that is anchored in the deepest parts of their characters, born from their deepest insecurities and fears, but growing into something strong and beautiful, something that heals them both and makes them into better people.

So it’s all been analyzed, and re-analyzed and analyzed again (because we wouldn’t be hardcore OUATers if we didn’t! ), but that might be one of the best essays about our couple I’ve read. Concise and simple, but beautiful – and totally nails it. Thanks, @Vanessa!

Totally, absolutely, 100% agree- LOVED this analysis! Thanks for Sharing @Vanessa

[surayya]

truthfully I wish they’d just tell us who it is, it’s just not a very fun thing to continuously speculate over.

Agreed!

[surayya]

What do you think about the fact that MRJ was directly pitched by A&E while Hook they had to held a casting session?

This means little to me- because they had seriously re-thought who Henry’s dad would be, when pretty much the entire fan based had guessed who Henry’s father was as soon as Bae went through the portal.

Also if they are pressuring them- Hook is totally safe then- he’s the one bringing in the lions share of ratings at the moment (I know of 9 people who have started watching the show because of Hook this season) & if he brings in the viewers, then he is what is lining their pockets, so he wont go anywhere 😉 It’s no mistake that Good Form had the highest ratings.

IMO, The only main they could drop & still cleave to their original story line, is Belle- because she wasnt meant to be in the main story like she is, they adjusted their original story to fit her in- Bae is supposed to be Rumples Happy Ever After. So I guess her death wont technically change their end game out come, if that makes sense.

Hook on the other hand was meant to be in the story since S1, but they couldnt get the rights to PP or something, so they had to but him off until S2- Hook was meant to be in Emma’s life from S1 & if you think about it, if he had been in S1, then the “love triangle” still would have happened anyway when Neal came into the picture, Snowing disapproval of the ‘pirate’ flirting with their daughter would still have happened- so A&E just sort of course corrected their story to work with what they were able to do at the time- at least thats what I assume from the little snipits of info they’ve given about it all- I could be way off though lol.

Hook does not need to die to be redeemed or a hero- is everyone saying Regina & Rumple will also have to die & stay dead to be redeemed or heros? Nope.

1) Hook gave up 300yrs of revenge/vengeance for the murder of his lover- ALL for the sake of person who he might have feelings for, son. He let the murder of his lover & the man who maimed him onto & into his home, the same place this person murdered his lover & maimed him- just so Emma could try to get her child back- but thats not considered heroic?

2) Hook cut through a plant that not only could have killed him, but one that did kill his brother, KNOWING that the only cure = staying on NL (aka Hook’s personal hell) forever, all to save a man whom had done nothing but be condescending, rude, degrading & judgmental towards him, because he didnt want his daughter (someone he cared for) to lose her father (someone she loves)- how is that not considered heroic?

Thats not even including all the examples- like him sailing back to SB, not knowing for sure IF he was sailing to his death or not- saying he’s not already a hero or redeeming himself is just crazy/skewed logic IMO!

Does Neal need to die in order to put right the wrong of his abandonment of Emma or be a hero? (I wont list the all the bad stuff he’s done as it’ll just stir up any SF’s reading this- we all know what Neal’s crimes, storyline wise are…) No, he doesnt- that’s a stupid reason to throw around IMO.

[surayya]

I wonder why they are even killing off a main character anyway? I know there was speculation it was over a cast member wanting off the show, but wasnt that disproven in an interview or something? Also (sorry if someone has said his already), actors work on contracts- so they wouldn’t want to kill off a character contracted to work past the event, as they’d still have to pay said actor until their contract was up, would they not? (although I guess if they’ve filmed the scene that shall not be named [why does typing that seem like less effort than spoiler tags lol], it is entirely possible everyone will continue on as normal until next season).

Another thing, I am wondering if the ‘event’ might not happen before the last few eps, but only because, wont we find out who’s contracts have been renewed for S4 & in what capacity (if S4 happens)? Or do you think they’ll wait until S4 confirmation before ‘official’ who & in what form announcements are made?

I’m not sure this move is an overly smart move tbh- yes beloved minor characters can be killed off to have an impact & up the stakes, but a main character? That’s going to devastate a massive portion of the fan base & we arent (I hope) even in the last season of the show, hence ratings are kind of required to ensure another season. I’m wondering if this move will make or break the show, whom ever they kill (I know my beloved NCIS hasnt been what it used to be since Cote left the show- it’s lost it spark IMO & become quite dull 🙁 So I hope that doesnt happen to Once) – it is a ballsy move for A&E to make either way, thats for sure! :/

[surayya]

Loving the new spoilers & the parallel theory guys 🙂

I didnt see the SF trend attempt as being nasty or hateful, ok sure it could have been better timed for the sake of CS shippers, but honestly Colin has a life & family outside Once. I cant see him feeling that SF fans being pro SF & tending a positive tag like hopeforSF (or whatever it was) as being a dig at him or his character- its not like they were trying to trend a hateHook or HateCS tag (unless I missed something!) & this is what I feel is the important message fans are missing atm- be PRO your ship, character or whatever, DONT be ANTI ship, character or whatever– it makes a Massive difference to the way a message is received (ie. I hope ‘Hook doesnt die’, is received better than ‘I hope Neal/whom ever dies’) & I dont think we’d have 1/2 or even 2/3rds the hate & drama going on in the fandom if this simple decorum was observed more (both here & at large) 🙂

I’m honestly not bothered by SF opinions on how it ‘could’ be Killian to die– sometimes their points are valid & interesting (even if I dont agree), it’s the total lack of acceptance of cannon facts that drives me up the wall or some fans flat out refusal to even accept there are valid points to their own beloved ship’s character dying– this isnt pointed to all SF shippers either, as already stated, some SF shippers do actually like Hook, they just dont ship him with Emma- much the same as most of us here where Neal is concerned.

I posted a number of pages back, that the spoiler ‘that shall not be named’ had already supposedly been filmed (to lazy to go back & confirm date), I think it was around the same time as pics as the pics on the beach with Killian & Henry interacting & the SB, WW scene, with everyone but Neal there came out. Which would mean no matter who it is, we wont know, as it could have been filmed out of order to prevent it being leaked (Why they had to confirm that spoiler I dont know- the wedding was an awesome spoiler, but this one… UGH! Why would they do it when they know how rabid some of their fans are? – I mean, did they forget the SQ poop storm that ensued after they honestly stated they hadnt actively written SQ into the show, it wasnt their intention to do so & SQ was fan interpretation? That if nothing else, should have had them reaching for the ‘no comment’ response they use for more minor spoilers, surely?)

Anyway, on a more exciting note! 😀 Only 3days of Jan left, then there’s just one more mth standing between us & 3×12! YAY!!!! 😀

[surayya]

Would you mind if I posted that in the SF thread? We should post it there, this is how we mend fences lol

Of course, go right ahead- I’m sure they’ll love it as well 🙂

[surayya]

Hehe- had to share this little gem 😉

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