[surayya]

There are rumors of a NL spin off??????? 1st I’ve heard of it lol

I cant see it happening TBH, OUATIW is struggling (as others have said), so it wouldnt make sound financial advice to start another spin off if the 1st isnt doing well as it should be.

Besides, NL only served as away to further the characters, arcs, that we are already heavily, emotionally invested in…. NL by itself would be what- PP & his Lostboys plotting Henry’s birth, Hook trying to find a way off the island (with the occasional LB fight scene), to seek revenge against a main character from another show- who never appears in real time, for any satisfying conclusion & whom PP also wants dead- all the while having a young Wendy swinging in a box, a depressed Tink stalking about the island with no purpose & Bae sitting in a cave marking time- The whole thing would have to build up to Bae being allowed to leave the island (having never found a family or happiness- so no fan pay off), Hook leaving the island, having never been happy, never finding happiness nor ever getting his revenge- again no fan pay off, Pan setting things in motion for Henry’s parents to meet & never killing his son- again no payoff- same goes for Tink & Wendy- no one ‘gets’ anywhere character wise, until the events of OUAT take place…. it would just be a boring flop IMO.

If they did NL, it’d have to be an entirely different NL- like when PP 1st became PP, so none of the Hook stuff really comes into it- just the lost boys- but then whats the point? We know PP endgame already & wont get any payoff until OUAT events – Na, I’ve convinced myself- I think it’s just a rumor, nothing more lol 😉

[surayya]

Guys you should go comment in the captainswanfire thread. I made a really good post.

I will go read your post, but may not contribute to that thread- I’m over all the hate & bashing (even if it’s in passive aggressive from) & sick to the back teeth of defending my fav male character’s actions, when other characters have done similar, if not far worse & got far less hate or even flack for it (I wont go into the Neal/Rumple/Regina/Snow/Charming examples I could use to illustrate the point). I just cant stand the double standards that I saw in there the 1st & only time I visited it, nor the fact that what was said in defense was simply brushed off – repeatedly. Which is why I ONLY come on this thread (in fact I have this page bookmarked, so I dont even enter in the main forum page anymore- nor do I bother with the podcast anymore, since the passive aggressive Hook comments & pro SF comments became a recurring theme)

I have no problem discussing SF & listening to their thoughts & opinions with an open mind IF it’s returned in kind (on another site, that’s actually how I came to understand Neal as a character more & well I still dont love him, I certainly dont hate him). My experience is (& I saw this from BOTH sides), one person listens to the others opinion, respects it & replies in turn, then another person chips in their opinion, as discrediting the validity of one the original 2 respectful posters points, who then gets defensive, because rather than being listened to & questioned, they feel they are being brushed off or discredited for having a differing opinion to the 3rd person & it spirals down from there as more defensively chip in.

I hope the thread can work, but I dont feel it’s a safe enough place to post anything yet & have it actually be taken for what it is- an insight from the opposite ship & simply say thanks for an interesting insight, this is how this side see it & have a thanks for insight repeated (instead it turns into this person is good/bad, because insert action/lack of action or just because that’s what you see, doesnt mean that’s whats happening) *sigh*

[surayya]

Lol, I am going to edit this 1)When he left Emma in jail 2)When he never attempted to fix Emma being in jail 3)When he never came for her after she got out of jail (1 year later by the way, guess who was looking for Emma for a year??) 4)When August said he was going to SB to help Emma believe 5)When he got the postcard 6)When he brought Tamara to SB 7)When he defended Tamara over Emma 8)When he didn’t tell Emma he loved her in 3×06 (or 3×07, 08,09,10,11) (so actually that’s technically 6 missed chances in one?) 9)When he asked Emma for a lunch date in 3×10 (an ultimatum too, when he says “I won’t bother you again”) 10)When he didn’t come to find Emma in 3×11 So yeah Neal has had all his chances as far as I’m concerned. Not much fighting there.

 

LOL- Even I hadnt thought of all of those. I’m in Total agreement with you on this list.

[surayya]

LOVE all the gifs guys!

1 I dont hate Neal… I like Neal… just not for Emma.

…Maybe I shouldnt write posts at 1am lol, but thats actually what I meant- I always say “No” to Hating him & No to even if he was played by someone else, I wouldnt ship SF, because it isnt Neal’s looks that are the problem, it is his actions.

Like it or not, there is a large portion of SF fans out there who firmly believe that CS’ers only ship CS, due to Colin’s looks (Many CS’ers left groups up until a mth or 2 ago, because CS’ers kept having these so called facts (CS’ers hate Neal & only ship CS because Colin is hot) thrown at them & never listened too when they said ‘that isnt true’ )- for me looks are just icing on the cake, like you say Colin has NAILED Hook & he comes vividly to life- I love the character in his own right (he’s easily my fav TV character, yet there are other actors I think are ‘hotter’ than Colin, but I like their characters less, so… *shrugs*) & Emma hasnt been emotionally destroyed by him- repeatedly, so I am happy to be on the CS ship.

I dont know if another actors take on bring Neal, would bring him to life more (IMO) or not & we’ll never know, but it doesnt matter anyway, because it was what Neal put Emma through, not who he is, that I whole hardheartedly object to (IF Neal had gone to Emma on bended knee, with cap in hand, when the curse was broken, I would have been more forgiving of him wanting yet another chance with her, but he didnt & then he continued to slam even more nails in the SF coffin after that IMO). I want Neal to get his HEA, as much as I want the others to get their’s, but I dont think Emma’s HEA is with Neal & I dont think Killian’s HEA is with anyone but Emma. *shrugs*

[surayya]

To be honest i think he stood aside only for the purpose of Henry’s happiness. He said so himself – “for the sake of the boy”. But Henry’s happiness is -by extension- Emma’s happiness. He knows that what Neal and Emma had was not an example of TL. So he decided to speed up the whole process of Emma choosing him. I think he KNOWS that Emma will chose him eventually, though naturally there are doubts – might Emma be able to let Neal back in? Will Henry’s happiness prove more important to Emma than her own? I just love what he did because he essentially eliminated the triangle himself. He proved that it was not him that was keeping Swanfire apart – that’s it’s Neal and Emma themselves, and it always will be. & ……. I think we CSers know that the triangle is done. Absolutely done. To me, and to a lot of other CSers, 3×11 just merely cemented what we already know – that Emma and Killian are True Love. I don’t think we’ll be getting another “I love you” from Emma to Neal – she has already said that “she always will BUT” which has a definite ring of finality to it. The only man Emma will be saying “i love you” to this season is Killian. I’m 99% sure lol.

Whoops, I should have been clearer, I meant it was with-in character for him to want whats best for Emma & by extension, Henry – if that’s allowing Neal another chance, to try to get Emma to give him a chance at having another chance, so Henry has the chance of his bio parents being together, then that’s what he’ll do- not that he felt he owed Neal for any reason- as he told Neal, Emma wasnt likely to allow him back in after doing what he did to her & if Henry knew exactly what happened, he might not want his Mum & Dad “together” either.

& Yes agreed, this ep for me pretty much killed the triangle- why of all people choose Killian to be the one to go get Emma, when Neal is Henry’s father. She doesnt have her memories, it’s not like she’ll remember him & even when she does remember him, it’s not like they are a couple or anything & surely he’d want to be with Henry again ASAP since it’s been a yr. Killian was chosen (again) to be paired with Emma, for a specific reason- the same reason we’ve been harping on about for the last 1 & 1/2 seasons to be exact 😉

I’d love if S3 ended with a whispered ‘I love you’ or ‘I do to’ from Emma to (or even towards) Killian- epic-ness (is that even a word lol), would be maybe right as she’s about to bestow TLK, then followed by ‘I told you I’d win your heart’ & his dancing eyebrows 😉 but that wont happen until much later, I’m sure 😉

[surayya]

Agreed @CaptainEala – with everything you’ve just said in your above posts.

I also have to say since you pointed it out, kudos to the PTB for filling heartbreak hotel with the entire Once fandom for the hiatus – the force is strong with those writers 😉

[surayya]

One of the arguments I’ve seen a few times is that Hook should step aside so that Bae, Emma and Henry can be a family. I’ve seen that enough times so that I already have my response memorized lol. First thing is Hook was prepared to do just that, but his heart aside to allow Bae to have his chance without him interfering. It just happened that Pan caused a curse forcing them to part and I dont see how anybody who loves anybody could just let them go when there’s a strong possibility they’ll never see that person again. Next thing is Neal and Emma being together isn’t the only way to have a legitimate family. They are all a family and an unconventional one at that. Neal and Emma will always love each other but that doesn’t mean they can never love again and that the new love they find is in any way inferior to the one they’ve moved on from. Henry, Emma and Neal are already a family but that doesn’t mean Emma and Neal have to be together in the romantic sense.

 

Yes, a thousand times this!

The few times people bring SF up, this is the number one argument they bring to the table…. My response is this, so are all the people who are divorced, with a child or children from said other relationship, no longer allowed to remarry or find new partners/relationships, because the 1st person they have a child with is it? So they still have to stay with said person if they emotionally abuse them (whether intentional or not)? What if they are abandoned… don’t get told their lover is leaving, they just leave & never contact you again? What if this person commits a crime, then allows a minor to be involved in said crime, then allows said minor to be sent to prison for their own crime? Are you saying you would go back to that, because it’s best for your child?

Not had a single person say they’d go back to someone if they did that stuff to them- because it’s easy to point out that then other major characters shouldn’t be allowed to have another love ie. Rumple & Regina.

 

I honestly feel Killian stepping aside was keeping with-in his honorable character, but he didnt “Have” to do that. Emma is not a piece of meat, she should be with whomever she wants & she’s already told Neal she doesnt want to be with him ‘like that’ anymore, she has NOT said anything even remotely similar to Killian. For the most part she has done NOTHING to dissuade Killian- despite him clearly laying out for her, what he feels & that he will win her heart eventually.

I think what the other side dont get, is that Emma has been severely hurt & damaged emotionally. She finds it hard to be vulnerable, even often around her own family still. She has massive problems with trust, She still has fears of being left/ abandoned. She still struggles with being loved- logically she can be rational about what happened to her & even understand the whys & hows of it all- being sent away as a baby etc, even what Neal did- twice, I guess; but that doesnt diminish decades of pain & emotional trauma, inflicted by him (whether he intended for that to happen or not). Her parents didn’t really have much of a choice in sending her away, Neal did, twice & thats not something that she can just ‘forget decades of trauma & pain, to ‘get over it”, which she would have to (IMO) do, for a healthy relationship with Neal to realistically work, Emma’s already told him that being around him hurts her (so it cant be argued that it ‘wasnt that bad’). There is a massive difference between accepting/ forgiving someone for past wrongs/wounds & being 100% vulnerable & trusting, in the most intimate ways possible, that a healthy relationship requires- for Emma’s sake, I think she needs someone who wont EVER do to her, what has already been done- someone who wont leave her, who will stand with her & Henry, fight for them above himself, no matter what may come- give his life if he must, someone whom she knows that if the worst should happen, he will have no doubts, no 2nd thoughts or hesitations about standing & fighting with her, for her. I dont think she will truly blossom into the her full potential, until she feels safe enough with someone to do drop her walls & just ‘be’. To me Killian has proven to be this person, Neal has not.

We (CS’ers) have been asked by SF shippers (on another site) more than once, if we would still ‘hate’ Neal if he was played by a ‘hotter’ actor, I always reply “No”, Neal could be the hottest guy on earth & I wouldn’t ship SF (as it stands, nothing Neal has done has ‘earned’ him is redemption with Emma IMO), but I may enjoy watching his scenes more if he was the hottest guy on earth lol 😉 . We have been asked if we’d ship CS if Colin wasnt Hook & I honestly answer, I don’t know (& I honestly dont!)- I don’t usually ‘like’ pirates, but Colin has me LOVING this version of Hook, so I dont know how much of that is how Hook is written & how much of it is the way in which Colin brings Hook to life & gives him layers etc.

CS for me is the same as Graham & Emma- I shipped them until he was killed & I didnt ship Emma with anyone until Killian came along (despite ‘knowing’ A&E would have her end up with Henry’s Dad/Bae), I’m glad they arent doing that with them, I want a modern day/ real world FT – the kind we all hope we get, but dont think that it could ever really happen.

 

Ekkkk- sorry for the rambling!

[surayya]

SF folks seem to think that Hook should bow out completely and that Hook should sail away or have a diminishing storyline.  Just because Neal had sex with Emma 11 years ago does not mean he has perpetual first dibs on her.  That smacks of treating women as chattel.  I don’t like it.  That relationship was over.  Both Emma and Neal had sex with other people and Neal was engaged to someone else less than 10days ago.  Why should Hook step aside from pursuing a relationship with Emma, a single woman for a man that was engaged to another woman?  Neal’s actions do not like true love And it’s unfair to both hook and Emma to expect that Neal’s current feelings should trump everything else.

Nods in total agreement.

I’m so glad I dont visit other threads on this forum & only go to my “safe” groups on FB. It sounds like the internet is a scary place for CS shippers right now … again *sigh* I now totally (or at least 99%) miss all the Hook/CS hate. Although I did get told just this morning that OutlawQueen is getting some mega hate too — I’m wondering how much of this hate is actually really perpetuated by “septic SQ’ers” (& do mean just the septic fans- not all SQ fans in general) who refuse to simply have a head canon & fanfic ship, after being told SQ wasnt happening. Someone mentioned there was a OQ & CS unite hash tag or something like that- very sad that yet another ship is being bashed, before it even really gets started (I have not-so-fond memories of that being our ship not so long ago…. oh, wait, seems it still is us lol). I dont care who anyone ships or why they ship it, it’s not mys place to tell others if what they love is right or wrong, I can state facts, opinion & what I wish or feel should/has happened, but not bash anyone for their thoughts or feelings, that’s just wrong- wish more of the fandom would ship & let ship.

*Hands out Hookie cookies & flasks of Rum, for all those wading through the shipping war zones on their way to & from here*

[surayya]

Anyone else want to see Hook kick a little butt? Now I get that they wanted the confrontation between him and Think to go a certain way to bring up the whole risking of his life for love and revenge… but it just reminded me again our our man Hook seems to come out on the losing end a lot. I mean a fairy got the jump on him? He is 300 year old military trained pirate… don’t tell me he doesn’t have skills or common sense as he is trekking through dangerous territory and Smee is unconscious all of a sudden. i get he was a villain in the past and they have to lose but as a ‘hero’ now I would like to see him win a few… would be great if they show some of the treacherous quest he had to survive to reach Emma. lol… yes I do read too many romance novels.

 

You bring up a good point here, because from what we’ve actually seen so far, “Hook” hasnt really been a true villain- sure he’s done some villainous things sure, but honestly, all of the characters have- hero or villain.

It’s more like he’s been an anti hero from the start- He only became a Pirate, because his king was corrupt, which lead to his brothers death (So far we dont know if the only one they stole from etc was the corrupt king or not). Milah only ended up on his ship because she begged him to take her with him. Killian only sought vengeance, because Rumple murdered Milah, for loving him over Rumple, who also hated himself for letting Bae go. Killian thought about killing Belle, as she was protecting Milah’s murder & refusing to allow him to get his vengeance/justice for Milah’s murder. Killian only worked with Cora to get his vengeance/justice for his murdered love. Killian locked Emma & Co. in the jail cell, because Emma betrayed him, abandoning him a top a beanstalk, effectively protecting Milah’s murderer & preventing him for gaining his vengeance/justice for her murder. He shot Belle in the shoulder, to wound Rumple’s heart (thats the one truly villainous act he’s carried out so far IMO- wounding another to get at someone else), He worked with Regina, Cora & GOAT, because they would allow him to get his vengeance/justice for Milah’s murder. He stabbed Rumple/ Milah’s murderer, thinking it would give him his vengeance/justice. He stole the bean to protect himself, over risking his life for a bunch of people who either hated him or knocked him out & tied him up- but he came back because he realized he loved Bae & Emma. He had ‘hero’ or ‘good’ moments in between these ‘bad’ moments as well. But since S2, he’s done nothing but prove he is a ‘good man’.

So I wonder if his Hook persona was over developed as away to spread fear etc (like the Dread Pirate Robinson was). Or if we have yet to see him do really villainous stuff (aside from being very selfish)….. it couldnt have been that long after his brother died that he meet Milah & it was about 9-10yrs after that, that Rumple murdered her, so he couldnt have been an actual pirate for much longer than 15max (I’m not counting his time in NL in that, because only the lost boys & Pan were there) & I doubt he’d have come out of NL  any earlier than 2 maybe 3yrs before the curse which would make him approx (33yrs- if we assume he is supposed to be approx 18yrs when he looses his brother).

[surayya]

surayya wrote: @RumplesGirl – Its actually an image that didnt post (not sure why, as it was an image when I hit submit)- I tried a new source, but your edit seems to have undone the new source & it’s showing the potty mouth words again ….. I will try it again now! Edited to add- all fixed, clueless as to the problem, but its fixed

My apologies!! My first instinct when I see stuff like that is to get it fixed post haste. *cookies* Carry on!

No worries! I totally panicked when I saw what had posted in the image’s stead, so scrambled to fix it- then was horror struck when I saw it was still a bunch of potty mouth language instead of the image, saw your edit & wanted to fix it, but didnt want you to edit at the same time again (thinking I was posting unacceptable language on purpose) & have the same thing happen a 2nd time lol. *happily munches on cookies now my freak out is over* 😉

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