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surayyaParticipant
@KFChimera wrote:
@obisgirl wrote:
At the end of the day, Charming or Snow aren’t going to choose who Emma should be with. The choice will come from her.
I agree with that. Just because Emma is their little girl doesn’t mean she IS a little girl. She is going to make up her own mind. Plus, I think if they see she is in love, they will (eventually) trust her judgement. We do have to have a few “Papa Charming” glares of course!
And oddly enough, I see Charming warming up to Hook first. I don’t think Snow holds grudges per se, but she can be a bit idealistic about how people should be. I get the vibe that Charming would get a bromance going with Hook soon as they bonded over something they had in common, like swords.
Agreed!
Also the same for Charming wouldn’t want Emma (or Henry either), hurt by Bae can be said.
Hook my be a pirate, but he’s only after Rumple for killing his love/r- When Charming finds out, I think he will be a little more forgiving than he is now- he would be able to understand that & see ‘Hook’ as being like his SB self, with Killian as his FTL self kind of thing.Rumple’s son in their family = way more danger. This is the man who’s father murdered his wife & son’s mother, then cut of her lover’s hand..out of spite, let his son be swallowed by a portal to another land, tossed his true love out of his castle, has turned many/100’s into animals & or killed them, blew up a fairy, murdered his house keep, screwed with Snow & Charming’s lives almost from day 1, helped frame MM for murder, brought magic to our world & that’s just off the top of my head (Not to mention Rumple is pondering over what course of action to take with Henry, considering Henry is his/darkone’s ‘undoing’, although they don’t know that yet).
Having Bae in their family means Rumple in everyone’s ear to stay/get close to Bae. If Bae refuses him, the rest will have to deal with Rumple’s ‘involvements’ to help him gain favor etc. Rumple is also very good at twisting things to get what he wants.
Bae/Neal in his own right has proven to be the very things Charming himself doesn’t value in himself- fearful, coward, not fighting for what you want & giving up- Hook/Killian is much more like Charming than Bae/Neal is by a mile.I cant see him being overly keen on Bae/Neal once the story of how Neal came to not be in Emma’s life comes to light either! Difference is he has to allow Bae access to Henry & by default Emma even if he doesn’t like him, there is no other ‘good’ choice.
[adrotate group="5"]surayyaParticipantFor me personally, I feel rather than being barren, Regina choose not to have children while in FTL (place was magic & we know she learnt magic BEFORE marrying Leo + you have plants that cause abortions if you do get with child & don’t want to be), as she was so filled with hate. At that point she was totally focused on revenge on Snow- not having a family.
Later as her own father kept reminding her about letting go & having a family, she started to think about children to love (Hansel & Gretel), since she no longer had Daniel, but they refused her, so she squished it & went back to focusing on her revenge of Snow.
Until in SB she had no other choice but to eventually realize her desire for love & to love (Owen & father) & in her 1st act of kindness since becoming EQ (letting Owen go), she set out to ‘have a child of her own’.
As someone mentioned, I think all SB was frozen & Regina would have eventually hated having a frozen child, so she had to ‘out source’. This I think is something Regina would have done anyway.
As far as she knows/knew, it takes 2 to make a baby- ie. I don’t think they do anonymous sperm donors & fertility clinics in EF- so if she was to ‘have a child the old fashioned way’, said child would also be a part of his/her father & tied magically to him (evidenced by Emma being/ having magic despite being raised in our world), therefore Regina would have to share.
Adopting an ‘unwanted’ child = Regina never having to share or compete for said child, she can quite rightly say- I want/love you, they didn’t/don’t- that appeals to Regina as things stood & still do.If Regina fell in love AFTER being Redeemed/Forgiven/Changing her spots, I have no doubts she’d jump at the chance of having children of her own ‘with’ her love, as she wouldn’t be worried about him taking said child’s Love away from her.
That’s just my take any way & agree it is possible she could be barren.
surayyaParticipant@slurpeez108 wrote:
@KFChimera wrote:
Snow White: You saved my life once, and now Iβve saved yours. So weβre even. And if you ever try to hurt anyone in my kingdom again, I will kill you.
So Snow’s threat implies that Snow at least thinks Regina could try to hurt someone else in the Kingdom besides herself or Charming (since he says “you can’t hurt us”), rather than thinking Regina would be powerless to attack anyone else.
Thanks for that transcript. Now that my memory is refreshed, I think the protection spell only applies to Snow and Charming in the EF. Since as you said, Rumple doesn’t give something for nothing. Also, I wonder if Snow White will end up killing Regina, since Regina certainly has tried to hurt Emma but ended up hurting Henry in 1×22. Also, Regina teamed up with Cora and tried to kill Snow’s entire family in 2×16.
Since it’s made up of Regina’s essence (aka hair), but designed to prevent her from “harming” or killing both Snow & David, I’d think it’d still apply to any direct decedents of the 2 it was designed to protect- as harm coming to them, could cause “harm” to Snowing (& yes A&E could spin that another way π )- since those are pretty much the rules they’ve come up with for Emma’s power (being the product of ‘true love’ of Snowing = her having them/it).
Also they
1) Knew at that point Snow would have at least one child.
2) Both had already dealt with Rumple at least once before- so his tactics wouldn’t have been new to them.
3) Rumple went to them, not them to him- you’d have to be mad not to dot your ‘I’s’ & cross your ‘T”s in that situation.
& maybe most importantly: 4) We have the fact that Rumple at that point had the Snowing true love potion as the ‘curse breaker’, so he’d want to ensure Regina couldn’t kill said curse breaker child/infant, BEFORE he was in our land (it was him who told Regina the child would break the curse in the 1st place- why say that unless he knew with 100% certainty that she couldn’t be harmed by Regina? As at that stage Regina wasn’t even ‘set’ on killing her father to activate the curse!)
So for me it goes without saying (esp if dealing with Rumple!) That if you are wanting protection from someone, you include your family.I took the wording “If you harm anyone in our kingdom again” …to mean their friends ie. Red, Grumpy etc. Since I doubt even Rumple could protect (or want to, since he wanted the curse activated), a whole realm from one person with a single hair π
Thinking back, I do wonder if part of the reason why Cora couldn’t take Emma’s heart was in part to do with that protection spell…. We simply don’t know if it applies to all of the bloodline, or is just restricted to a single individual, so I guess all we can do is speculate on that matter until the powers that be (A&E) have spoken π
I’m not sure if endgame will be Emma or Snow killing Regina TBH- she’d have to be about to or in the process of actually killing Henry, Emma, Snow or Charming for Henry to be ‘understanding’ about it.
surayyaParticipantJust remembered the curse/spell from S1 that Rumple but on Regina, preventing her hurting or killing Snow & Charming “while in FTL“…. the whole reason Rumple was able to get Regina to cast ‘The Curse’ to bring them to our world… If this magic is still in effect there, then it’s possible that protection applies to the whole Snowing family (cant see them allowing Regina to go free, unless Snowing knew their future daughter & grandchildren were also safe from harm).
So they would all be allot safer from Regina there than here, if that’s the case… I’m not sure if Emma knows about this or not yet, but that could play a role for things as they stand.surayyaParticipant@slurpeez108 wrote:
Sorry, I haven’t had the chance to read through the pages here, but I have a question to pose. 1) Assuming that Emma and the rest of the Charmings were to return to the EF, what would prevent Regina from returning there, too? 2) She could gain access to the crop of magical beans being harvested in SB and follow after Henry to any world he’s in. 3) She’s a powerful witch, and I doubt she’d have any trouble defeating Charming and the dwarves to get a bean. 4) The only people who could possibly take on Regina are the BF (whose magic already has proven ineffective against Regina in SB), Emma (whose magic isn’t fully developed or tested yet) and Rumple (who wants Henry and Regina out of his way). 5) I fail to see how returning to the EF would protect Henry from Regina.
I can only answer by my way of thinking- who knows what A&E are planning π
1) She’d need a portal of her own.
2) True she could, but the same is easily said for staying here as well- whats to stop her taking some or all the magic beans + Henry & disappearing forever with both- so for me that’s a moot point π
3) Again moot point- Regina is powerful here or EF, that makes no difference, unless they can prevent her going back to FTL.
4) I agree with everything except Rumple wanting Henry outta the way- I think/ hope he will want to loose the dark ones power, rather than put Henry out of the way)!
5) They can prevent her from following OR there is the protection spell Rumple put on the Charming family, which protects them from Regina (stands to reason it should still apply, as the wardrobe still had active ‘portal’ magic). Regina is a threat here unless they could send her back to FTL & I cant see them doing that (not their style to inflict her on an entire world where she can use magic at will, better she stay here & only be able to use magic in an empty SB π )Again just my opinion π
Edited to add the protection spell reason πsurayyaParticipant@PriceofMagic wrote:
Regina would follow Henry back to FTL because she considers him to be her son. As we know “magic works differently here”. It is possible that both Regina and Rumple are limited in their magical capabilities whilst in Storybrooke whereas in FTL they can be full on. Would Emma really want to go against a full on magic evil queen in FTL? Also there would be other things in FTL for Emma to worry about than just Regina. Storybrooke is safer.
Possibly, but 1) that would require her to be able to portal jump & 2) Regina & Rumple are both perfectly capable of being their full on magical evil selves in storybrooke now magic is here, despite it function defferntly- as we have already seen.
Which is safer is totally up to our own opinion at this point- so I doubt we’ll agree there, I still feel FTL is the safer of the 2.Henry tried to blow up magic using dynamite, his stupidity is questionable at times. Also there may be times when it would be inappropriate to involve a child in some decisions and that’s what Henry is, a child. What’s he going to do, run off every time he’s not allowed to be involved in decision making? In Storybrooke, the environment won’t kill him, in FTL, it very well could. With the ogres, I can see Henry taking it upon himself, to be “a hero”, because he had the line about being fed up of reading about heroes and wanting to be one. Henry obviously isn’t stupid enough to take on something he doesn’t know how to fight, the problem comes when Henry thinks he knows how to deal with something. For example, the ogres. The only way to kill them is shooting them in the face. Say Henry knows that, he goes out, finds himself an ogre and attempts to shoot it in the face. He misses.That ogre isn’t going to just stand there and wait for Henry to get it right, it’s going to kill him. Maybe Henry doesn’t even get to the point of shooting at the ogre. Upon seeing it, Henry may freeze up with fear, in the way that children do, that ogre isn’t going to wait for Henry to get his act together. When Emma told him about all she encountered in FTL, Henry thought it was “awesome”, it certainly wasn’t “awesome” for Emma. Henry has only read about FTL in his book, he hasn’t experienced the “reality” of it.
Again this comes down to either your understanding of the character or your opinion of him. Personally I wasn’t a Mensa member at age 10/11yrs & so I’m sure I wouldn’t have come up with the most intelligent possible way on earth to ‘get rid’ of the thing that I felt was causing my entire family to turn on itself.
Henry is at heart a FTL child, he has known what he is (for at least 3 or 4 yrs maybe longer) & what that means by extension…. Emma didn’t.
FTL children do things like throw themselves in portals, thinking it’ll save their family members, fight in wars- conscripted or not, wonder through the woods (you think are so very dangerous) by themselves gathering wood for their father & end up taking out a witch, play hide & seek, in those same dangerous woods & also think throwing dynamite into wells to destroy the magic destroying his family will work… that’s just the way ‘heroic’ FTL child/people are.
I will be clear here, if they went to FTL, it’s not like they aren’t going to learn to live there- He is already learning Swords play & equestrian care- it’s a start & practice makes perfect. I hardly think Charming or Snow would allow their family to sink rather giving them the tool to swim + if they did die shortly after arriving for some reason, Emma has a tone of friends who would help her until she had learnt the ropes. Beside’s what happens when the men in black roll up, with their plastic tents to ‘study’ magic & the effects of it in our world?! It is exactly what would happen.Storybrooke is still “the real world”, even if it has magic. If Henry was kidnapped in Storybrooke, (so long as the kidnappers don’t use any magic beans) Emma would know Henry was still in Storybrooke because very few people can cross the town line without losing their memories. FTL is very vast. Someone with magic could kidnap Henry and take him to the otherside of FTL and it would take days for Emma to catch up to them, even longer if the magic kidnapper keeps moving around. Also, in Storybrooke, if Snow and Charming suddenly died, Emma would still be able to function without them. If Charming and Snow suddenly died in FTL, Emma would be up the creek without a paddle. The only reason Emma survived her last trip to FTL was because of Snow, without her Emma would’ve been killed by the ogre.
Again perception & understanding- I cant & wont call a place that didn’t exist for any non-FTL folk as ‘real world’ Even now that non-FTL folk can see it, FTL/magical folk cant leave without being stripped of their magical/FTL selves, so again- that isn’t ‘real world’ to me, as the town/area functions under a different rules to the rest of the planet as a whole.
As for kidnapping Henry, that’s way more problematic in our world than FTL:
In FTL they have ways to search for him & kingdoms to call upon who can search for him.
In our world, if he leaves SB, the only one who can go after him is Emma (& what if Regina takes him away), everyone else will loose their memories of who they were/are. Also if Emma gets the police or FBI involved, it gets even more problematic- because they live in a magical town, with magical people (how will that info not either have you thrown in the crazy ward or becoming a lab rat).At the end of the day, I concede both options have their merits & drawbacks & are fairly even over all at this stage in which is the ‘safer’ or ‘better’ option. We all have our opinions on the matter which sway us one way or the other & I wont be able to change yours, as much as you cant change mine- until the show say’s otherwise π
surayyaParticipantI was thinking some other ways to having a tidy end of series endgame, is if Regina, Hook or Neal somehow ended up ‘young again’ like August did (I cant put the other’s from the ‘big 6’ into that possibility, as I can only see that making more loose ends), it would be hard for instance, to eventually ‘not forget’ how the now child Regina did all the horrific stuff, as she’d be Regina as she should/wanted to be, not as she was manipulated into being previously & so would/ could be realistically be included with the big 6 family.
I haven’t used Hook or Neal as the example, as we don’t know enough about their back/ full up stories yet.
I don’t really love the idea of young again & I haven’t gone into the circumstances of how it could happen (again all these things would happen AFTER or as part of redemption/forgiveness, NOT to avoid it!)- but if it’s that or death, young again works πMemory loss could work as well I suppose, but would be harder to work in.
The same can be said for either Hook, Neal or even Regina dying after or in the process of redemption I guess (like any of the 3 throwing themselves in front of another to ‘save’ them- this would be after forgiveness etc or while its taking place kind of thing). A&E have already said no one is safe a war is coming & there will be deaths. I only mention those 3 as any of the others would cause more lose ends not tidy them up π
Also since I find it obvious, but others may not- Neal, Hook & Belle are only included in these endgames since they are deeply entwined in some of the big 6’s stories & their input is needed for ultimate redemption of Rumple in particular.
I really don’t want to write another long post, my lunch break is almost up! So I’ll leave it at this very simple basic level π
surayyaParticipant@KFChimera wrote:
Perhaps if you framed things in your original post differently you would get comments more on track to the discussion you want.
Possibly- I just couldn’t think of a way to word it, so that every single person would read it for what it is, instead of looking for ships at every line. I had thought people would see the distinction between a relationship itself & the reason or point of said relationship coming into being – I guess I was wrong, as I suppose at the end of the day, if I had said someone died or got young again & given the reasons for it as an example, they’d be going on about how that couldn’t/shouldn’t happen, rather than the actual circumstances it’d create or not (which is why I kept my personal feelings about each character/relationship- aka shipping- out of the equation, there’s no place for them in this discussion).
Even now with your edits, you make a lot of statements about your impressions and theories of the possible romantic relationships between various characters.
Umm, No I disagree with you there.
The one place I have endgame ‘romantic’ relationships (& that’s not the purpose of them as stated many times over), it’s covered in EXAMPLE labels- people just choose to take it as shipping statement, rather than what it is- THE ENDGAME REASONS FOR THOSE PAIRS BEING TOGETHER (although I kept the reasons as basic as possible), each is named, followed by the REASON why that would help create the neat & tidy (all loose ends tied up), endgame…Not who should or could be with whom- BIG difference & the distinction I am talking about.Now part of this is because you were trying to elaborate on why Emma is unhappy now, so you could explain what it would take to make her happy. You centered that part on her relationship with Neal. You even set up a comparison more or less with the hurt Neal caused Emma to that of the enmity between Snow and Regina.
Yes I did- again because I’m looking at “endgame, happy ever afters” & the circumstances surrounding them, that relationship is now more complicated than simply being deeply hurt after a bad break up, so it is relevant & included. I could have used say… Regina & Rumple as another example, but I don’t think they’ve really crossed the line ‘yet’, so that would be pointless or Rumple killing Henry to keep his power, but again that hasn’t happened yet either (although if it did, I cant see Regina, Emma, Neal or Snowing forgetting about it enough, for him to be part of a big 6 happy ever after)
I think these two relationships are not even in the same ballpark. Emma does not hate Neal. You may feel she should (and I disagree with a lot of your conclusions about how deeply he hurt her…but this would get too long to go into all that), but that’s not the direction the writers have gone down. Whether or not they have romantic feelings for each other, I don’t think Emma is defining her happiness in terms of Neal’s unhappiness.
1) If you read what I wrote, I stated that the circumstances between the 2 where very different already, that wasn’t what was being compared, as has been stated repeatedly.
2) It’s not their relationships that I’ve focused on- it’s the circumstances surrounding them. Yes the relationships are there- they have to be in order for the circumstances to take place at all!
3) I don’t need to elaborate on why Emma is unhappy now- it has been stated why on the show during both S1 & S2! The example I used was from S1 right out of Emma’s dialogue about why she has walls up with MM. Whether these were created by feeling abandoned or not from a baby, is irrelevant & why I didn’t go into further length breaking them down (it was long enough π ).
There are other lines where she mentions what that relationship did to her, but I’m not going into it- the point is that is what we have been told & have to work with.4)Nowhere did I or have I stated Emma should “hate” Neal or that her happiness is defined by Neal’s unhappiness either π
What I stated was that he hurt her deeply, in a way that has scarred her (JM, A&E have already said the same thing, as has Emma- so it’s not pulled from thin air) & Why (she has already said what she needs etc, again so has E&A).Regina, on the other, has not quite abandoned thinking that if Snow is unhappy, that she would be happy.
I agree with you & in the context of this thread, if it doesn’t change come last ep, then a final endgame happy ever after isn’t possible.
So in this sense, it would not be enough for Regina to love Neal for her to get along with Snow. I don’t know yet how angry Regina is with Rumpel for his role in everything to make a similar conclusion. I think Regina is in the process of changing how she feels about Rumpel.
Again I never stated that these endgames are for S2 or S3, but “end of the show”– as in when the show end’s, what would/should the happy ever after’s look like. No one at this point could live happy ever after the way things stand, so there’s no point worrying about ‘end of season’ endgames. As I said, post one is AFTER redemption/forgiveness has taken place between the ‘big 6’ & is say the last minutes of the last ep.
In any case, if what you are asking is: Can Regina, Rumple, Snow & Charming, Emma and Henry ever coexist peacefully enough for a “happily ever after”?, then I would answer, yes they can. The Charmings, Henry and Emma are being written as capable of extreme amounts of forgiveness. We’ve seen Emma say something like she got a second chance, so she is willing to give others one too. Henry believes there must be some other way than killing Regina to resolve things. Snow pardoned Regina and said there was once good in her. Of course right now, she is in a darker place, but I think she will get back to be willing to forgive. Charming risked his life to try to save Anton after Anton had attacked him in an angry rampage. They are the “heroes” so that means they WANT to (sometimes) take the risk that the bad guy can be saved. The writers have said the show is all about hope.
Yes it is! π
Interesting thoughts & I agree to a large extent, it’s just that forgiving & forgetting are 2 different concepts… so you would consider Regina’s actions to date as forgettable enough to live as part of the family happily ever after?
I too think Snow will forgive her, in fact I almost think she maybe there tbh- it’s not like her to hold a grudge π , it’s just Snow & pretty much everyone else, couldn’t embrace Regina when she was trying to change the 1st time (which was realistically done), they didn’t trust her, because of all the stuff she had previously done- there’s even more ‘bad blood’ now & that is what’s making me unsure of how far is too far, before ‘big happy family’ isn’t realistic between the 6.As for the “Villains” of Regina and Rumpel, they both may do things that seem like completely mentally unstable sociopaths, but they do both want to find love for and with other people. So I think the writers could believably take them on a journey of learning how to be better.
I agree & don’t doubt this at all, but it’s not what I was wanting to discuss…. unless it is the journey we are talking about rather than if it could/should happen (again, it’s that distinction I was talking about which is tripping things up)
That said, I don’t think a realistic ending is one in which everyone (who is an adult) is paired off romantically. There are people in the real world who are not in romantic relationships, but who are not lonely and unhappy, because they do have love. Even in stories that can work as a “happy ending”, as it did in Pinnochio, Up or more recently, Brave. I like romantic subplots, so I’m not opposed to having characters paired up at the end, but of course, to discuss the possibilities of what is more “real world” there might derail the thread again.
I think I’ve made the purpose of the ‘pairings’ clear already, so wont repeat myself- But I do agree with you there- I used the shortest version on ‘neatly tied up’ endgame I could think of- it was a long post already with out trying to go longer lol. It is how these different kinds of tidy endgames would apply to our 6, that I find interesting.
I did actually write out an alternate tidy endgame, including some ‘singles & tweaked how it could all fit to be a tidy endgame ever after, but it was lost to cyber space π I will post them in a new post as this one is more than long enough.
surayyaParticipant@Hookian wrote:
@Surayya wrote:
@Hookian wrote:
Here you guys go. π
It’s the one that has Kindred Spirits as the title, we have over 62 threads. π
Thanks for that will have a squizz π
Someone posted about the Emma’s ring/ Charming’s mother’s ring connection of love following it where ever it goes & Hook & Emma’s meeting/ FTL interactions being in the presence of it.
Another small thing to add to that is the Charming and Hook both took the coins they found on the journey’s they had with Snow and Emma even though both women were in a rush and rushing the guys.
Oh yes, good catch π
surayyaParticipantI have just been re- watching Tallahassee & have just been hit over the head with Emma’s line to Hook when she chains him up in this conversation:
Hook “Hahaha… You are bloody brilliant! Amazing. Haha, may I see it? The compass” “It’s more beautiful than legend; Come Lets go”
Hook “What are you doing?… what are you doing!?”
Emma “Hook, I… I can’t”
Hook “Emma, look at me. Have I told you a lie? I brought you here. I risked my own safety to help you. The compass is in your hand, why do this to me now?”
Emma “I cant take a chance that I’m wrong about you…I’m sorry”Clearly she feels he was telling her the truth/ was genuine in what he was saying to her & his intentions of helping her & Snow get back to SB, Charming & Henry- so she trusted him to a certain extent (at least as much as she was able to trust a man, she’d just meet) at that point in time.
The fact was, at that point she couldn’t take the risk of not getting back to Henry & co. if what she was feeling about Hook, had been clouded & wasn’t indeed real/true.If she hadn’t trusted or cared about him, she’d never had made the deal with Tiny to let him go after she’d left, she’d have let him sort himself out.
She certainly felt comfortable enough with him to share her deepest secret & hurt with him (she hadn’t even shared it with Snow at that point!)-so despite what the CS haters feel about Emma’s ‘feelings’, thoughts & trust levels of Hook – Emma does indeed ‘trust’ Hook to some extent & sure as oats has ‘some’ feelings for him π -
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